To Weld Or Not To Weld? (Lincoln Lockers)

DRaider90

DRaider90

Uwharrie Off-Road Volunteering
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Location
Weddington, NC
Since I don't have a front locker option for my truck I have decided to run the route of getting the front welded up. I put some Superwinch (since Aisins are super rare for my truck) hubs on the truck, so on the trails if needed I can unlock one/both hubs for turning etc while leaving it in 4wd. I just have to get the 3rd member dropped from my Silver truck, get it welded up and swapped into my Red one (so I have a backup diff).

BUT, my question is why is there so much debate about welding up the front or the rear? I understand welding (spools and lockers in general for that matter) the spider gears makes it so the tires can't spin at different speeds in turns (tire chirping, accelerated tire wear, lack of turning radius), and it can put a lot more stress on parts.

But I read around and talked to some people and you always get a different opinion. There are the group that says weld up your front and don't mess with welding the back because of the road manners/tire wear. Then there is the group that says weld up the back, and don't mess with the front because you will grenade cvs, hubs, etc.

I guess it boils down to your own experiences etc, but I would expect there would be some more definitive answer on this considering how long welding diffs has been around. So while I have made my decision about the front getting welded, I still debate getting the back welded (it is my DD). So opinions and views into this from anyone?
 
This has been beat to death on pirate...read it there. I would just rock the welded diffs. I wouldn't want the rear to be welded if I was going to drive it on the road all the time.....Tires cost too much for that. For trail only I would rather have a welded rear. People can say what they want but I think that a welded diff is stronger....no sprinhs or pins to mess with and break. Steering sucks with a welded front diff unless you go with hydro assist. You will probably be ok for a while if you have good power steering though. Don't buy a locker for the front. Save up money for a sas.
 
With your short wb a welded rear is going to affect your street manners alot more than a longer wb vehicle. I'm a fan of welded diffs and I have and will continue to run them. I've driven plenty of rigs with welded or spooled rears on the street and it doesn't bother me but it is def a personal preference sort of thing. I wouldn't DD a welded rear just due to the tire wear but I'm also not the type that could only have a single rig for street and trail. For the front my rule of thumb is if it has hubs weld it. If not, unless you're running at least hydro assist if not full hydro, lock it. Weight of the vehicle also has an affect on how much pull, chirp and tire wear you will get from a welded rear around corners as well. Personally I like welded or spooled diffs just because they are 100% predictable. There is no loading or unloading like you get with lockers which also helps cut down on some shock load to the axle shafts and IMO helps prolong the life of them. My last XJ had a welded D35 and while I did break shafts, I really didn't break anywhere near as many as I should've. Anyone who has seen me wheel knows I wasn't ibn the least bit concerned about wheel hop or spinning tires, I beat the immortal he!! out of that poor XJ.
 
Yeah I have read up on pirate and other forums, and its all the same 2 sides going back and forth. I agree with you personally, it just doesn't make sense why there is a more unified opinion/view on this. And I couldn't buy a locker for the front if I wanted to, none are made for 88 and earlier Raiders/Monteros. Only option is an ARB for the rear in the $800 range.

Edit: Just saw the other reply. Yeah my budget only allows for one running truck, so my trail rig is also my DD. Having a DD would take away any debate in the matter really, just weld both front and rear up and move on. And thanks for the opinions etc, keep them coming.
 
F that......I would just weld it. Or put a toy axle in it with a loc-rite
 
The reason you wont find a definate answer is the same reason you wont find one as to which locker is better. Its all a matter of opinion. As everyone knows opinion are like a$$ holes, everyone has one and most of them stink (unless its your own)
 
you can buy a rear spool for around $100 so if you cant afford $100 your in the wrong hobby. as far as the front goes welded sucks i was welded when my truck was ifs and it did not turn at all. then i went solid axle swap with a welded front and it was just as bad.
you can buy a lock right for the front for under $300. so money weighed against the trouble and hassle you will have out of welded locker and spool are the way to go. and yes a spool or welded is predictable but if its set up right you will have no trouble with a front locker. when comparing a spool to welded there is no comparison welded is a cheap and retarded way of doing some thing when you can just buy a spool and never worry about it. as everyone has said its up to the driver but when you weld it and you hate it you will wish you did it the right way i know been there done that. (if i were you i would find some one with a welded truck and drive it first before you mess yours up cause once its welded there is no undoing it.
 
I know I aint a big name on here, but I have been doing this for 30+ years. There is no "right" answer, just opinions. I drive mostly sammi's which are alot like your vehicle. I have been driving a welded rear for about 7 years now and the only time I hate it is when there is snow or ice ont he road which doesn't happen much here. There IS more tire wear when it's a DD, but it is worth it for the added traction and reliability off road. It WILL make your turning radius huge on the trails and it will be even worse with a welded front. I run Power steering and it helps lots, but you can unlock a hub and just lock it in when you need it.
 
rockkrawler4x4 said:
you can buy a rear spool for around $100 so if you cant afford $100 your in the wrong hobby. as far as the front goes welded sucks i was welded when my truck was ifs and it did not turn at all. then i went solid axle swap with a welded front and it was just as bad.
you can buy a lock right for the front for under $300. so money weighed against the trouble and hassle you will have out of welded locker and spool are the way to go. and yes a spool or welded is predictable but if its set up right you will have no trouble with a front locker. when comparing a spool to welded there is no comparison welded is a cheap and retarded way of doing some thing when you can just buy a spool and never worry about it. as everyone has said its up to the driver but when you weld it and you hate it you will wish you did it the right way i know been there done that. (if i were you i would find some one with a welded truck and drive it first before you mess yours up cause once its welded there is no undoing it.
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For the Dodge Raider with stock axles that the OP is referring to the only locker available for the axles is an ARB for the rear axle. There is nothing for the front. For most of us with alot more common axles, we have options. He doesn't. What trouble and hassle are you referring to that you would have with a welded diff??? If done correctly, as with anything, it is perfectly reliable. Sure give some retard a welder and let him have at your spiders and carrier and it will probably blow up and thats where the bad rap for welded diffs come from. With proper prep and correct method and knowing what you are working with, there are no more issues to be had with a welded diff over any other type of diff. I myself have yet to break a welded diff.
 
rockkrawler4x4 said:
you can buy a rear spool for around $100 so if you cant afford $100 your in the wrong hobby. as far as the front goes welded sucks i was welded when my truck was ifs and it did not turn at all. then i went solid axle swap with a welded front and it was just as bad.
you can buy a lock right for the front for under $300. so money weighed against the trouble and hassle you will have out of welded locker and spool are the way to go. and yes a spool or welded is predictable but if its set up right you will have no trouble with a front locker. when comparing a spool to welded there is no comparison welded is a cheap and retarded way of doing some thing when you can just buy a spool and never worry about it. as everyone has said its up to the driver but when you weld it and you hate it you will wish you did it the right way i know been there done that. (if i were you i would find some one with a welded truck and drive it first before you mess yours up cause once its welded there is no undoing it.
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why spend $100 when you can weld it for 5 bucks...:flipoff2: The only way the carrier becomes unchangable is if you weld the spiders to the carrier. I do mine that way but you don't have to.
 
rockkrawler4x4 said:
you can buy a rear spool for around $100 so if you cant afford $100 your in the wrong hobby.
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Damn, that's kinda harsh. Some people consider a tight budget a good thing because it keeps you from being wasteful and forces you to be resourceful and creative.

This hobby doesn't need more people whose bank accounts outweigh their common sense.

Not saying that a spool is a bad purchase at all, but I know I certainly think several times before I drop $100 on my rig, and usually I'm thinking about a way to do it cheaper.
 
1stgenxxx said:
This has been beat to death on pirate...read it there. I would just rock the welded diffs. I wouldn't want the rear to be welded if I was going to drive it on the road all the time.....Tires cost too much for that. For trail only I would rather have a welded rear. People can say what they want but I think that a welded diff is stronger....no sprinhs or pins to mess with and break. Steering sucks with a welded front diff unless you go with hydro assist. You will probably be ok for a while if you have good power steering though. Don't buy a locker for the front. Save up money for a sas.
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I Agree with this 100%. But, I can't believe no one has mentioned the strength of the front axles. This vehicle is IFS correct? I am a huge fan of welded diffs also, (All 3 of the vehicles in my driveway have welded rears). But, I really dont think the CVs in the front will handle the stress.
 
.02 Keep the dd open all the way around or spend the $ for arb. How many miles do you spend off road compared to on road? If it's your dd and you f%$k something up, no dd. I have a limited slip in the dd, and am happy that way, much better to drive than when it was welded. Besides that, I impressed more people and myself when I was open because it takes more finesse.
 
I think welding the IFS front will cause you to break 1/2 shafts more. Combined with the 'get out to unlock the hub' method, while functional is not always done.

I would save your effort on doing anything to your current axle. I would look at a toyota SAS and reap the benifits of having a very common axle with a lot of aftermarket (and used) parts. So even if you welded toy axle just to get started you still have options down the road...

It's easy to say one thing is better than another but only your wheeling and driving styles will dictate what you like best. IMHO the toy axles offer you more options to choose from.
just my .02
 
First off thanks for all the opinons/feedback so far.

Axle swapping in the inevitable future if I want any kind of locker. I hadn't thought of the Toyota axles (which would be nice to keep the 6x5.5 Lug Pattern), but I have thought about Waggy D44s, and other options. This is considering (for the one guy above that missed it a couple posts back) there aren't any locker or spool options for the front axle of the 88 and earlier Raider/Monteros.

My options are running low to improve the off-road capabilities of the truck. 2.85 T-Case Gears are $1,200, 5.29s for the diffs (both axles) are around $1,000, and the ARB locker for the back is $800+. Not to mention all these options are located in Australia and would take months to get over here. So until I get the money for any of the above or to do an SAS welding the front/rear seems like one of my best options.

I guess it boils down to is it worth possibly grenading CVs/Hubs to get the advantage of a front lincoln locker, or is it worth the extra tire wear to do a rear lincoln locker. I travel 10 miles round trip a day to work, I wonder how much life it would take off the $180 a pop 34x9.5 TSLs.
 
I suggest leave the front open, lock or weld the rear, and then put a winch on the front if you do not have one.. that way when on the trail you will have 3 wheel drive in 4wd and if you get stuck you can pull your self over with the winch.. then when ya got the time and money swap in the toy axle and do SAS and then worry about which locker to put in the toy axle..

casue breaking stuff on the front IFS is gonna suck when you are wheeling and have to keep rebuilding, etc each time out.
 
Just by a Trooper and be done with it :shaking: :huggy: :huggy:
 
if you plan on DD this truck for more than one day DONT weld the rear. You will hate it as soon as you try and go to wendys drive through, or buy your next set of tires after 4 months, just save up a little and buy a lockrite or detroit.
 
what diff is the the front axle? dies aussie not make a locker for it?
 
if money is tight keep in mind the repairs you will face because if you weld the front you will break something if you wheel it hard enough,and if you dont wheel hard enough to break then you proably don't need to be locked to start with.not trying to be a smartass just something to think about if it's your dd.
 
92yotaman said:
if you plan on DD this truck for more than one day DONT weld the rear. You will hate it as soon as you try and go to wendys drive through, or buy your next set of tires after 4 months, just save up a little and buy a lockrite or detroit.
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READ POST 4!!!!! how illeterate(sp?) are people these days....its already been said MULTIPLE times that there isnt ANY OTHER OPTION......
/rant off
sorry it drives me crazy when this happens
 
witchdoctor said:
if money is tight keep in mind the repairs you will face because if you weld the front you will break something if you wheel it hard enough,and if you dont wheel hard enough to break then you proably don't need to be locked to start with.not trying to be a smartass just something to think about if it's your dd.
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I have reached a cross roads in my 4 wheeling journey with my truck where I am wanting to tackle some of the harder stuff at Uwharrie. Over the years I have done Daniel multiple times, played on Kodak a little, etc etc etc but most of the time I find myself taking the easy lines. I have been going down the list of things to do to help traction/clearance wise with the hard obstacles. And the next progressive step is lockers and/or gearing.

I have found myself in too many situations where one front tire is spinning, and the other isn't. And if that other tire was spinning I would be up and over what ever obstacle it is.
 
Weld it up!!!! but expect it to bleed eventually...lol
 
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