Track bar?? Hi everyone btw

ANDREW W CHESTNUT

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Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Location
Erwin
Well be easy this is my first fabrication adventure and post on here :).converting my 98 ram 2500 from 2wd to 4wd. I took inspiration from blakeape and montanatrout on here only difference mine starting 2wd lol.

Anyway I'm having trouble figuring out how to mount a track bar. I don't want to remove the crossmember as it ties into the engine mounts.
I'm thinking if i could find some sort of rear axle tube mount i could make it work... thoughts?

Also I'm not totally sure on shackle angle...i did my best to compress the springs and mount them to a 90 degree but came out on the soft side...am i ok? Or should i run a boomerang style? Longer?

Any help would be awesome
 

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Where is your pitman arm in comparison to your cross member take a picture from driver and passenger side with the tire off to get a better straight look down the axle from the side to see what kind of room your working with.

Honestly I think a lot of people don’t run a track bar with leaf spring set up


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Yeah most dont. Honestly i took the idea from ford and also the 2 trucks i modeled the idea from use them for road manners as this truck is more of a utilitarian truck, little tow, little haul, little recovery, little daily driver, jack of all trades so to speak.

Right now i can't give a full test run because the alignment is out bad enough to cause death shake at 35mph but i expected that i just had to move it last night
 
Loganwayne said:
Where is your pitman arm in comparison to your cross member take a picture from driver and passenger side with the tire off to get a better straight look down the axle from the side to see what kind of room your working with.

Honestly I think a lot of people don’t run a track bar with leaf spring set up


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Yeah clearance is a bit tight on this one. I was thinking an offset mount tii the rear and weld the bracket tii the crossmember kinda in the same fashion as obs fords
 
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Depending on amount of room you could possibly get an outside the frame track bar mount and have it run in the area circles if the heim or frame side mount is close to the pitman arm the draglink would have little up and down movement near the pitman arm...



Also your going to have a stupid short trackbar which is bad for the reason of clearance and it being so short I would look at not putting one and possibly looking at a sway bar


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See the first post has a front on pic in it. That's why i was wondering why ford did that and also used like a ft long track bar. Hell ive seen one do a similar set up with a track bar AND a sway bar
 
Loganwayne said:
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Depending on amount of room you could possibly get an outside the frame track bar mount and have it run in the area circles if the heim or frame side mount is close to the pitman arm the draglink would have little up and down movement near the pitman arm...



Also your going to have a stupid short trackbar which is bad for the reason of clearance and it being so short I would look at not putting one and possibly looking at a sway bar


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Is like a foot maybe 16 inches too short?.

Also i honestly have never looked at fabricating sway bars and mounts, you think that would work better?
 
A sway bar would increase the on road manners and you could pretty easily pick up a sway bar out of a truck that was already a solid axle front weld a couple mounts and make some links from it to the axle and be done


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Loganwayne said:
A sway bar would increase the on road manners and you could pretty easily pick up a sway bar out of a truck that was already a solid axle front weld a couple mounts and make some links from it to the axle and be done


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What would you say is the reason i saw *monster cummins* i believe is what he called it run a sway bar and track bar? Using the same set up as me, well.. about 12 inches higher but still. Just for stability?
 
ANDREW W CHESTNUT said:
What would you say is the reason i saw *monster cummins* i believe is what he called it run a sway bar and track bar? Using the same set up as me, well.. about 12 inches higher but still. Just for stability?
Click to expand...

Sway bars are to control body roll the taller the lift the more body roll during driving. If your looking for drive ability put a sway bar on and leave the trackbar off chances are you will never notice


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You've got plenty of pitman arm clearance. It doesn't move. The only thing I'd suggest is moving the shackle mount back some to make the shackle angle better.

Set the caster between 3 and 5 degrees and pull a tape on the front and back of the tires and give it maybe 1/16" toe in, but do it with the left side tire off the ground and right side on the ground. Make the right tire straight ahead and once the toe is set, then adjust the draglink to center the steering wheel if you need to. I've got 3 trucks that have never been on an alignment rack and wear tires just fine :D

Hopefully the camber is 0*. If you still have death wobble after that, it's because the kingpin bushings and springs are worn out and need to be replaced.

If you get too much body roll in corners, a sway bar might help or you might need a slightly stiffer spring. You'd really only need a panhard bar if when sitting still and turning the steering wheel you can see the truck shifting side to side before the tires start to turn.
 
Croatan_Kid said:
f you get too much body roll in corners, a sway bar might help or you might need a slightly stiffer spring. You'd really only need a panhard bar if when sitting still and turning the steering wheel you can see the truck shifting side to side before the tires start to turn.
Click to expand...

X2. Ford put trackbars in because the soft leaves would allow the axle to move side to side. If your leaves dont allow the axle to move sideways, you likely dont need a trackbar.
 
Steering behavior will be more linear and more precise with a properly designed and executed trackbar. The trackbar and draglink should be the same length and should be parallel to each other. This will allow them to move in the same arc so that when your suspension cycles, it does not cause a steering input (aka bumpsteer, etc).
 
Croatan_Kid said:
You've got plenty of pitman arm clearance. It doesn't move. The only thing I'd suggest is moving the shackle mount back some to make the shackle angle better.

Set the caster between 3 and 5 degrees and pull a tape on the front and back of the tires and give it maybe 1/16" toe in, but do it with the left side tire off the ground and right side on the ground. Make the right tire straight ahead and once the toe is set, then adjust the draglink to center the steering wheel if you need to. I've got 3 trucks that have never been on an alignment rack and wear tires just fine :D

Hopefully the camber is 0*. If you still have death wobble after that, it's because the kingpin bushings and springs are worn out and need to be replaced.

If you get too much body roll in corners, a sway bar might help or you might need a slightly stiffer spring. You'd really only need a panhard bar if when sitting still and turning the steering wheel you can see the truck shifting side to side before the tires start to turn.
Click to expand...
Ahhh i understand now ok cool sounds good. Only issue with the shackles is that the frame outriggers sre burned in and so are the hangers..yeah i know sounded stupid but mainly the reason is is because i had to way to REALLY compress the spring besides jacking up on it and figuring how much is compresses per inch amd go that way.

Turns out it goes just a bit farther than my math lead to believe.

Only thing i notice is that its surprisingly a soft ride. Should i need concerned? Or maybe go longer on shackle? Boomerang shackles maybe?
 
jeepinmatt said:
Steering behavior will be more linear and more precise with a properly designed and executed trackbar. The trackbar and draglink should be the same length and should be parallel to each other. This will allow them to move in the same arc so that when your suspension cycles, it does not cause a steering input (aka bumpsteer, etc).
Click to expand...
Behavior as in response, control? Is it because its more of a solid fixed point?
 
ANDREW W CHESTNUT said:
Behavior as in response, control? Is it because its more of a solid fixed point?
Click to expand...
Yes, response and control. The driver makes the steering decisions instead of the suspension action. As the suspension cycles, the leaf springs allow the axle to move up and down in a vertical path (imagine hitting a speedbump with both tires at the same time). But the draglink travels in an arc with the pivot point at the frame mount. Since it is an arc, the connection point to the steering knuckle moves primarily in the vertical direction, but also slightly pulls or pushes in the horizontal direction. This results in bump steer, as in, when you hit a bump, it will steer without any steering input from the driver. If your draglink is roughly parallel to the to the ground, the effects are minimal. The more angled it is, the more exaggerated the bump steer will be. By introducing a track bar, your are forcing the travel path of the axle to follow the same arc as the drag link. Since leaf springs are fairly compliant, the 1/2" or so of movement doesn't really cause any binding during street driving. During major flex or suspension extension, the trackbar may begin to fight the springs. A longer trackbar is better than a shorter one, because there is less horizontal movement and less angular change during suspension travel. However, trackbar length should be limited to draglink length, and matching the lengths and angles will give you a parallelogram which is ideal geometry.
 
jeepinmatt said:
Yes, response and control. The driver makes the steering decisions instead of the suspension action. As the suspension cycles, the leaf springs allow the axle to move up and down in a vertical path (imagine hitting a speedbump with both tires at the same time). But the draglink travels in an arc with the pivot point at the frame mount. Since it is an arc, the connection point to the steering knuckle moves primarily in the vertical direction, but also slightly pulls or pushes in the horizontal direction. This results in bump steer, as in, when you hit a bump, it will steer without any steering input from the driver. If your draglink is roughly parallel to the to the ground, the effects are minimal. The more angled it is, the more exaggerated the bump steer will be. By introducing a track bar, your are forcing the travel path of the axle to follow the same arc as the drag link. Since leaf springs are fairly compliant, the 1/2" or so of movement doesn't really cause any binding during street driving. During major flex or suspension extension, the trackbar may begin to fight the springs. A longer trackbar is better than a shorter one, because there is less horizontal movement and less angular change during suspension travel. However, trackbar length should be limited to draglink length, and matching the lengths and angles will give you a parallelogram which is ideal geometry.
Click to expand...
Ok, so a track bar is more of a rugged bumpsteer prevention as opposed to a sway bar for movement side to side. However I'm looking at my clearance amd im thinking the only way i could do it is a frame mount on the cross member and a behind axle tube mount
 
You need an outside frame track bar mount on driver's side of the frame. Then fab a ubolt plate with integrated axle side track bar mount. Putting the axle side mount on the ubolt plate and the frame end outside the frame will give you the length you need to avoid bumpsteer.
Grab a couple heims and some tube and connect the two.
 
ANDREW W CHESTNUT said:
Ahhh i understand now ok cool sounds good. Only issue with the shackles is that the frame outriggers sre burned in and so are the hangers..yeah i know sounded stupid but mainly the reason is is because i had to way to REALLY compress the spring besides jacking up on it and figuring how much is compresses per inch amd go that way.

Turns out it goes just a bit farther than my math lead to believe.

Only thing i notice is that its surprisingly a soft ride. Should i need concerned? Or maybe go longer on shackle? Boomerang shackles maybe?
Click to expand...
You could add some leafs to stiffen the pack, if it's too soft.

You could also move the front mount forward to straighten the shackle.

Making the shackle longer won't help u.
 
Jody Treadway said:
You need an outside frame track bar mount on driver's side of the frame. Then fab a ubolt plate with integrated axle side track bar mount. Putting the axle side mount on the ubolt plate and the frame end outside the frame will give you the length you need to avoid bumpsteer.
Grab a couple heims and some tube and connect the two.
Click to expand...
My u bolt plates are factory Ford plates with shock attachments. Guess I'd have to use the rear axle tube design.
 
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