Trailering Question

HANO

HANO

meh.
Joined
Sep 16, 2006
Location
Myrtle Beach
I have a 2006 Dodge Ram Mega Cab 2500 4x4 with 5.9 Cummins, 3.73s' and E-rated Tires.

I am wanting to tow to Moab next year with a two car trailer, so I can split fuel costs and drive time.

GCWR 20,000#
GVWR 9,000#

Truck's weight with my wife and I, a full 44 gal. fuel tank and hitches. 7,867#

Jeep #1 4,300
Jeep #2 4,200

Lightest Goose 4,100#
Lightest Bumper Pull 3,100# (per Kraftsman)

Truck is already set-up for a goose. From what I have read people run 20 - 25% of Trailer weight on the Mount.. which would easily put me over my GVWR.. The set-up regardless would put me over my GCWR. I have heard a goose makes for excellent towing, however I fear I would be running ill equpped for that set-up.


The bumper pull seems to be the only way to get close to "legal". I believe you run roughly a 10-15% TW on a BP Correct?

Why are the weight ratios so different between the two...? I have noticed people towing trailers with Jeeps pointing backwards, some forwards and some mixed. Is it all a bunch of guesstimating?

I know a dually would be the preferred way, however it will not fit in my driveway. I need help on how to go about this correctly. If I am pushing this envelope regarding safety and legality, I will not use it. I was planning on selling my single car trailer and this would be my primary trailer for Halan, Tellico, Crozet, Etc.....

Is the way I am figuring these weights correct? I do not want to make a 4-5,000 $ mistake on buying a trailer I cannot use. I am a legal eagle when it comes to this kind of thing, and I want to do it right....

Any help or ideas would be great and I do appreciate it. I have towed for quite a few years, but never something of this length or size. Mainly single car trailers, enclosed race trailers and boats up to 32'.

J.R.
Myrtle Beach

(also a class a license is not needed per the SC DMV. They stated they do not care what the trailer weighs, aslong as it and the truck do not go over 26,000#)

DSC00012.jpg


RAMGoose.jpg


RAMGooseSide.jpg
 
HANO said:
I have a 2006 Dodge Ram Mega Cab 2500 4x4 with 5.9 Cummins, 3.73s' and E-rated Tires.
I am wanting to tow to Moab next year with a two car trailer, so I can split fuel costs and drive time.

GVWR 9,000#
Truck's weight with my wife and I, a full 44 gal. fuel tank and hitches. 7,867#
Click to expand...

When did they go to 44 gal tanks?
Are they all not 35 gal tanks?
To your question, If you want to stay under 9000 lbs and tow a trailer with a off road rig, give up.... All the time I weigh I'm at 9500 lbs with one rig and camping gear and I have a camper cover on the back of the truck. Your truck will tow 20k gross I have done that with mine, just need to load it good and try to stay in the 9000 gvwr on the truck the best you can......
 
The invoice from the dealer states a 34 Gallon tank stock and on the second sheet it stated a 10 gallon extra capacity fuel tank as a purchased option for that truck. I bought the truck used and thats what the options sheet said. I may be completely wrong, but I know that joker will hold some fuel.....!
 
jon your mr johnny law so you know that just because a truck 'can' tow or handle the load is one thing.. If the factory had determined it was able to be a higher GVRW they would have rated it such..

Hano, you might check to see what other GVRWs were available that year. Possibly different gearing or manual/vs auto contributed. If they had a higher GVRW optional truck see what it had.. Could be the alloy wheels or optional tires etc.

TW on a BP all depends... I'd advise using a Weight Distro hitch for that size trailer, that means you can run 800# 1200# or more TW. As you noticed alot of that will be determined by whats loaded and how its positioned.. (BTW: the 3 TJs ive scaled were all close to 50/50 front rear weight bias)

Trailer weights - All the trailer places lie! Either figure in 10%-20% more or find one you like and scale it.. When I was trailer shopping I asked everyone if their weights were calculated or actual. NONE were actual. Most don't include the spare tire. Some only post weights on the shortest lightest trailer they build for that model type.
 
HANO said:
34 Gallon with ten gallon extra capacity as an option. I bought the truck used and thats what it stated it had. I may be wrong though.
Click to expand...
Just like dads Should be a 34 -35 if you got a 44 then someone replaced the tank with an aftermarket tank but most of them are bigger. You can see the plastic tank in front of the rear tire in you pic. Most aftermarket that I have seen are steel. Just Fill it up and let us know......
Just get a good trailer and work out your loading and pull it.
Question is do you want to get that big of a trailer for the trip and then be stuck with it for towing one rig all the time on it or are you going to tow rigs for people all the time?
 
Hano - you are in a gray area, and I have never heard a conclusive answer.

Will the truck handle what you are trying to do? YES. Is it legal? UNCLEAR.

You can legally get plates to cover your total weight, so you will be legal in that respect.

You don't want to go over your tire ratings, or your axle ratings. You should be legal there - my SRW can handle 2 rigs on a gooseneck without exceeding my rear tire or axle capacity.

But as you already said, you will not be within your GVRW and GCVRW. Some people say this is OK, because the DMV cannot issue you a "weight ticket" for it. This is *probably* true. These people say that you are totally legal if you're within the tire and axle weight ratings. But others say that if you are in an accident, even if it's not you're fault, you will blamed and your insurance can choose not to cover you if you are outside GVRW and/or GCVWR. That means you could be personally responsible for big $$$$$$ in an accident, lose your house, etc. Some have even said jail time is a possibility.

I don't know the answer. It has been discussed a lot in the Tow Rigs section on Pirtate4x4.com, and no conclusive answer.
 
yager said:
jon your mr johnny law so you know that just because a truck 'can' tow or handle the load is one thing.. If the factory had determined it was able to be a higher GVRW they would have rated it such.. .
Click to expand...
EDIT TO BE CLEAR
Let me be clear on something, I was only talking about the ability of the truck to tow the load.
Looking back on his first post and the numbers he stated 20k but the numbers don't add up, the only way I would tow this would be is with a BP trailer, to cut down on the weight.
By the time you add the other people and gear you will have a lot more weight then you think. I would do a dry run load up your truck with all your gear for camping and anything you will need, anyone that will ride with you out there and fuel up then hit the scale. Next load both the rigs up with all the trail gear and tie down straps and any thing that would be on the trailer then hit the scale. add all the weight up an find a total real weight then find a trailer weight as close as you can, maybe someone on the web here to get a total..... Find if it is something you can live with if not then you don't waste your money.
END OF EDIT


He is talking about towing 20 K that is the GCWR for his truck.
Nothing wrong with saying that is there.For me I would always stay under the GCWR but if TW ups your GVWR 500-1000 over and you are using a WD hitch/Timbrens then its fine for me if its safe, I would have no problem letting a DMV looking at it.
As far as the GVWR its 9000 and its hard to stay under that but for the same year the 1 ton SRW there was no difference other then overloads giving it had higher rated rear springs, thats it. So with adding Bags or Timbrens (take 30 mins), it will give you the same load as the 1 ton SRW 9900.
BTW the "Factory Recommended GVWR " if you talk to a DMV they will tell you its a recommended amount and like the weighted tags let you slide about 1000 lbs, its more to keep the auto makers from loosing money if people overload and get killed....
 
To add on.... Make sure you talk with you insurance company.. Be clear about your trip. Possibly even getting a small rider policy for just the trip to cover your friends rig.. You can get trip policies that cover you for extra amounts for a specific period of time. They may even ask specifically where you are going.. (Example My U-haul was only insured East of the Mississippi but I could add per trip coverage else where for a small amount.)

In several conversations with my insurance company about my coverage when I had various tow rigs and such.. From them in an insurance coverage standpoint it all came down to this.. Don't exceeded the GVRW of the truck. I'm 100% covered as long as I 'own' the contents of the truck/trailer. I asked them point blank about the trailer capacity etc. They didn't care. They did not care as long as I was not doing it for hire or was exceeding the trucks capacity..

And as Jon was saying it could be along the lines of the highest available GVRW for that model truck/configuration.. IE you wreck and you've got a 10k slab of concrete in the back, vs your pulling a 2 car trailer....

Also, this isn't to say your bestest friend in the world would 'want' to sue you.. But if his insurance denies him or covers him but then sues your insurance type thing.. It gets messy fast..
 
Thanks for the replies, lots of good information, and I appreciate it...

The consensus is as I see it.... The lightest bumper pull that will haul two jeeps, airbags, and a W/D hitch to help keep my GVWR on the truck as low as possible..... I know what the truck weighs, I know what both jeeps weigh, trailer weights I will check on (will they let me scale it before I buy it?).

Say if you have a set-up that weighs 11000#, you run your TW at 1,000 or so pounds.. When you use the W/D hitch... in theory how much less weight is on the truck now compared to before the hitch. I am new to the W/D Hitch thing, as most people I know consider them horrid contraptions. I am open for ideas...

J.R.
 
WD - Distributes weight via the hitch to the truck front suspension. It NEVER truly 'removes' weight it just moves it around, remember you have to 'have' the TW before you can distribute it..

The closest thing to a formula ive ever found is something like 35%/35%/30% Front/Rear/Trailer (anyone confirm this?)

your 11k loaded trailer with 1k tongue would end up weighing 10,350 (ish) with ~350 being 'distributed' to the front truck axle and 400ish still on the rear truck axle.. (and 300 ish put back to the trailer)

It basically helps evenly put additional weight onto the truck, VS strictly on the ball which if over done, can unload the front axle..

Depending on the length of trailer your looking into, you may be able to properly balance the load such that you can hit a reasonable GVRW on the truck and still have the jeeps in good locations..
 
Thanks Yager for your time and help!

The W/D hitch does make sense.... How come more people do not run it? If it does move the stress off of one point and "distributes" it a little more efficiently, seems like more people would like to use one.... Is it just a hassle to set-up properly..? Gadget, I will check the fuel tank capacity and let you know...

J.R.
 
HANO said:
The W/D hitch does make sense.... How come more people do not run it? If it does move the stress off of one point and "distributes" it a little more efficiently, seems like more people would like to use one.... Is it just a hassle to set-up properly..?
Click to expand...

It is at least $200 more than a plain ball mount, and it takes time to initially set it up.
 
I'm glad I could help, i just started using one after 5 years of towing normally. I really never knew anything about them, everyone said 'you don't need one' or 'it's only for campers' or 'its a band-aid for towing with a 1/2 ton' All of which are partially true..

Just for reference, I initially was towing with a 01 PSD crew cab/long bed.. Hook ok, run the jeep up on the trailer so the truck squatted some and pedal down.. With one rig on a small trailer I never paid much attention to it.. That truck weighed 7200# so in that case I didn't 'need' a WD hitch to feel comfortable towing. Though knowing what I know now I would run one anyways..

Now I'm towing with a 'smaller' truck that has a shipping weight of 5400#. I'm closer to 6500 with the work body ive got.. regardless my jeep and new trailer/camper combo is heavier than the truck. Thats where a WD can help. With movable loads (cars) it lets you setup with more TW then use the hitch to sift it to the front axle giving better ride/handling.. Note: this is the same reason a camper would need one, minus that they may not be able to move the TW as readily...

Anyway yes, there is an added cost. I have a ~$500 Reese "straight Line" setup that has built in sway control.

Google "Weight Distributing Hitch" and read for a while.. I have a few links on RV.NET with a ton of math and 15page argument/discussion about the math part of it..

All this said, I'm not saying a tag is what you 'need' to haul 2 rigs. All things equal a goose would likely be a better setup. But a Goose is likely to be 500-600# heavier trailer due to the front goose. That may negate any advantages in your case.. You have the hitch possibly you could try one out to see..

Also read down a few pages in the tow rig section.. Ruffastheram got a 2 car and posted some pics of another one..
 
HANO said:
Thanks Yager for your time and help!
The W/D hitch does make sense.... How come more people do not run it? If it does move the stress off of one point and "distributes" it a little more efficiently, seems like more people would like to use one.... Is it just a hassle to set-up properly..? Gadget, I will check the fuel tank capacity and let you know...
J.R.
Click to expand...


I run one...even with a 1-ton CTD dually...and love it...

Greg
 
Your combined Jeep weight is the same as the weight of my last trail rig. The two biggest differences between your setup and mine are 1) Megacab versus Quadcab & 2) your tag along will be longer than the one I have.

Your heavier Megacab reduces your usable GVWR. A tag along is the only way to go due to your limited GVWR. Your tag along will be longer than my 20 ft'er but it may not weigh any more (mines 7 ton gross). If you get the right trailer, your truck will pull it fine. Just don't skimp on trailer weight rating; a higher rating gets bigger brakes, heavier tires, and more beef in the frame.

With regards to a WD hitch, I've never pulled with one. Maybe I should, but with the weight of the CTD in front I don't see why I need more weight transfered up front. As long as the rear axle rating and the hitch weight are not exceeded, I don't see a problem. With the right BW, my trailers have always pulled smooth and stable. But if a WD makes you more comfortable, go for it.
 
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