Watch out for the Charlotte Meck Police

Franklin said:
You arent exactly pulling applicants from the cream of the crop are you? Especially with the salaries involved. i dont expect that much out of police officers because I feel that i am responsible for the safety of my family as best I can.
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I still fail to see what a Ph.D. in Criminal justice would do to help a cop do his job more professionally or objectively.
 
Rich said:
I still fail to see what a Ph.D. in Criminal justice would do to help a cop do his job more professionally or objectively.
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Rich, you obviously don't understand this:
The more time you spend in the academic world, the more real world experience you gain. 4 years in Business School give you more knowledge and experience than a guy who has been running and growing a successful business all his life.
Thereby, a Ph. D in Criminal Justice means that you should be a Chief as soon as you graduate.
 
rockcity said:
Crap like that pisses me off. Even if its hear-say, the judge will always believe the cop no matter what and we end up getting screwed.
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In my younger days I was an idiot..I needed to be arrested most every time I was. However, once caught I never denied or lied to officers. I had several court cases I was a defendant/accused ,whatever...and sat silently while I watched cops and detectives LIE LIKE A MOFO on the stand, ever since then I've pretty much lost all confidence in the court system and lots of respect for the officers. I gave up being an idiot around 18 or so, it was just easier to do the right thing...I'm sure there's plenty of cops/law enforcement who still subscribe to being idiots in their own way.

Now, that being said,I own a shop now, run it as honestly as I know how...but I'm sure I wouldn't have a hard tme finding someone who's either been screwed or thinks they were scewed by a shop. A few bad apples bring a lot of people down.
 
Rich said:
I still fail to see what a Ph.D. in Criminal justice would do to help a cop do his job more professionally or objectively.
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Now you're the one embellishing.

A cop with a bachelor's degree or even just an associate's degree has significantly more class time and has been tested to demonstrate his proficiency on any number of subjects related to his job, especially so if he was a criminal justice major. A better understanding of the laws and his role in the justice system would certainly affect the professionalism and objectivity with which he performs his duties as an officer.

If the barrier to entry is just an HS diploma, you lower the bar enough to dilute the applicant pool.
 
This guy did the same thing, doing 91 mph according to the camera, when he hit and killed a young girl.

 
Be prepared to loose all your rights. Modern day police are highly aggressive and are wanting to ignore your rights. The only one who has rights is the criminal and thats only after his lawyer finds out that the police break their rights. Just the other day my brother was pulled over by 8 police (mooresville and iredell county) for leaving our storage shed at 1:15 am we were told we were freee to go but then the officer asked if he could search my bro said no and them was asked to get out the truck. They then asked me and my girlfriend to exit the truck where the proceded to search the whole truck w/o consent or probible cause, including my bag and my girlfriends purse. I told the rookie that was watching me that he did not give consent he responded with "what are you hiding" I responded with "nothing just that I had rights, that i guess don't matter anymore"
Dumb ass cops could have found 100 kilos of crack and due to the illegal search it would have been thrown out. Modern day police are just an orginized gang who don't care about the law because they make it up as they go. Soon they will take your guns like they did in Katrina and it will not stop till we are in cages behind walls. Stand up and fight for your rights, the worst that can happen is you get killed, hell then your better off anyway.
 
Rich said:
I still fail to see what a Ph.D. in Criminal justice would do to help a cop do his job more professionally or objectively.
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Education does a lot more than teach you whats in the book for class.

Honestly, I think all police officers should be required to have at least a 4-year degree, hopefully in criminal justice.

Doctors, etc. have just as much responsibility (in a different way) for the safety of the clients, but they are required to have years and years of school. Anyone that can arrest me for just about anything and get away with it and potentially bet detrimental to my career or life should have more than a few weeks of training by Dept. Doofus.

I'd be fine with with the way the system is if there was some accountability for these officers. Make them responsible for their actions, either discipline or financially if I have to defend myself because of some hot-headed cop on a power trip. That'll put a lot of these situations in check.


In the past I was accused of something that I didn't even do. It ended up costing me over $5K to get it taken care of (dismissed). Every encounter I've had with cops has been bad. I have yet to have 1 single good incident with cops. I feel like when something happens where I need the cops, I'm the victim twice, once by the vandals and secondly by the cops' slack ass, etc.

Years ago my wife and were asulted by a group of black guys during Halloween downtown (big crowd in the street). While I was there, it would have been very unsmart of me to do too much as there were about 15 of them and 2 of us. cops were 20 feet away in plain sight. What do they do? Nothing, even after approaching them about the incident, they just told us to stay at home and it would have never happened. After that and ever other incident with them I've lost all respect for most cops.

Granted they help, but if the BBB took complaints on cops, they would be at the top of the list.
 
saf-t scissors said:
A cop with a bachelor's degree or even just an associate's degree has significantly more class time and has been tested to demonstrate his proficiency on any number of subjects related to his job, especially so if he was a criminal justice major. A better understanding of the laws and his role in the justice system would certainly affect the professionalism and objectivity with which he performs his duties as an officer.
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You make a point, though I'd be interested to see how many hours of a 2 or 4-year degree are actually spent on police work, vs. the ~800 hours of a 4 month BLET-specific course. (assuming 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 4 weeks a month)
 
Doesn't matter, they all go to BLET.
 
One thing I think the education debate is missing, is basic intelligence.
There is no euphemism to lighten the impact of stupidity. I am not saying that all non college grads are stupid, nor that all college grads are inherently uber intelligent, but it does present a Mendoza line to qualify candidates.

I do not want the lowest common denominator intellect wise to be LEOs, and I am not convinced the current academy training does anything to prevent that.

I know several I graduated (HS) with that are now cops and are just plain dumb. It is a sad reality, that lack of intellectual ability can not be trained away, and as result a less intelligent person will by law react inferior to a more intelligent person.

There needs to be a hurdle to clear, and an advanced degree would do something to move towards that standard.
 
Rich said:
You make a point, though I'd be interested to see how many hours of a 2 or 4-year degree are actually spent on police work, vs. the ~800 hours of a 4 month BLET-specific course. (assuming 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 4 weeks a month)
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well even at minimum "full time" course load of 12 hrs/week, 4 semesters exceeds that... and that's w/o accounting for any time outside of sitting in class doing homework, reading, prepping, etc.

IMO the key to this point is not even so much the time spent on the "education", but what's required to actually get the degree - a substantial investment of your time/life, and a lot of learning about thing OTHER than just simple "being a cop"... lots about being a general ciitizen and appreciating the learning process.
Lets face it not everybody is cut out for a 4 or even 2 year degree, that cuts down on the job applicant pool for teh better. I don't know about you, but I like the idea of anybody in charge of law inforcement, and especially those on the front line, being people of reasonable intelligence and having proof they can accomplish a long term intelectual goal.

Should beat cops need a Masters? No. Should you immediately be Chief if you have a PhD? No way in hell. That job needs somebody who is both smart AND knows the system - from years of experience.


EDIT - damn Ron beat me to it and said it better.
 
We'll just have to agree to disagree on how getting a 4 year degree (especially with such a broad range in the quality of education) proves that you're more intelligent than someone who, for example, went into the military after H.S., and served 4 years there. However, it also goes the other way around.

The military (for example) does a decent (though certainly NOT perfect) job of breaking down the various skill sets they need and scoring them individually, as to better put people into fields they're better in. Though there are PLENTY of dummies in the military, there is a notable absence of them in certain fields, (I will use aviation as an example, as I'm familiar with it) because of the more strict requirements, but a college degree isn't one of those.
SkyHiK5 said:
There needs to be a hurdle to clear...
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I agree with this, but I don't think a college degree is the right hurdle to present in a career field such as this. Maybe RatLabGuy knows of tests to measure the amount of "common sense" a person has?

IMO, the skill sets required to be a cop do not align 1-for-1 with the skill sets required to graduate college. Other careers (Medical, for example), would seem to align more closely, and I would agree that I want to see MD behind the name of a guy who's gonna cut me open and operate.
 
Rich said:
We'll just have to agree to disagree on how getting a 4 year degree (especially with such a broad range in the quality of education) proves that you're more intelligent than someone who, for example, went into the military after H.S., and served 4 years there. However, it also goes the other way around.

The military (for example) does a decent (though certainly NOT perfect) job of breaking down the various skill sets they need and scoring them individually, as to better put people into fields they're better in. Though there are PLENTY of dummies in the military, there is a notable absence of them in certain fields, (I will use aviation as an example, as I'm familiar with it) because of the more strict requirements, but a college degree isn't one of those.
I agree with this, but I don't think a college degree is the right hurdle to present in a career field such as this. Maybe RatLabGuy knows of tests to measure the amount of "common sense" a person has?

IMO, the skill sets required to be a cop do not align 1-for-1 with the skill sets required to graduate college. Other careers (Medical, for example), would seem to align more closely, and I would agree that I want to see MD behind the name of a guy who's gonna cut me open and operate.
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I know you were in the service, but guessing you chose not to do a four year degree?
 
Rich, those years in the service you describe, IMO, would amount to about the same level of post HS learning I'd expect police officers to have, at a minimum.
 
kcarroll said:
I know you were in the service, but guessing you chose not to do a four year degree?
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Wouldn't call it a choice, however in the years since my discharge, though I have taken a few classes, the pace of my doing so has been my "choice". At this point in my life, with my goals, not having a degree is not a hindrance, at least not enough of one to justify the time investment. I haven't been passed over for a promotion or job because of a degree... oddly enough, I often find myself doing tasks that the "educated" couldn't seem to grasp.

I tend to prefer more focused, technical training, i.e. conferences and professional training courses, where I don't have to take a biology class in order to learn advanced I.T. skills. Probably a bit of ADHD contributing to that one though.

While I was in the Army, the op-tempo in our unit along with the variable hours of my job didn't really allow for taking classes, and the support structure for education wasn't there like it is today. (I've read about guys taking classes while in Iraq, for example, which is great.)

I certainly don't down anyone for wanting to pursue higher education (If I did, home life with the good Dr. would be interesting), but I do take issue with those who think themselves better for doing so.
 
Rich said:
We'll just have to agree to disagree on how getting a 4 year degree (especially with such a broad range in the quality of education) proves that you're more intelligent than someone who, for example, went into the military after H.S., and served 4 years there. However, it also goes the other way around.

The military (for example) does a decent (though certainly NOT perfect) job of breaking down the various skill sets they need and scoring them individually, as to better put people into fields they're better in. Though there are PLENTY of dummies in the military, there is a notable absence of them in certain fields, (I will use aviation as an example, as I'm familiar with it) because of the more strict requirements, but a college degree isn't one of those.
I agree with this, but I don't think a college degree is the right hurdle to present in a career field such as this. Maybe RatLabGuy knows of tests to measure the amount of "common sense" a person has?

IMO, the skill sets required to be a cop do not align 1-for-1 with the skill sets required to graduate college. Other careers (Medical, for example), would seem to align more closely, and I would agree that I want to see MD behind the name of a guy who's gonna cut me open and operate.
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Im not even sure we disagree that much.
I could get on board with either A)4-year degree or B) 4 years of military experience.

As it is today it is harder to become a mcDonalds manager than a LEO....
 
Rich said:
We'll just have to agree to disagree on how getting a 4 year degree (especially with such a broad range in the quality of education) proves that you're more intelligent than someone who, for example, went into the military after H.S., and served 4 years there. However, it also goes the other way around.

The military (for example) does a decent (though certainly NOT perfect) job of breaking down the various skill sets they need and scoring them individually, as to better put people into fields they're better in. Though there are PLENTY of dummies in the military, there is a notable absence of them in certain fields, (I will use aviation as an example, as I'm familiar with it) because of the more strict requirements, but a college degree isn't one of those.
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How do you differentiate your argument from the Army's requirement that all officers have a 4yr degree?
 
I'm gonna start carrying a brick of taped up baking powder......

that way after they illegally search me, AGAIN; they will find it under my seat and think that they got some big bad guy.......

then I will laugh my ass off and play dumb like I really thought it was some coke or heroin.

The cops would be soooooo pissed when they found it was just baking powder.

I'm not really gonna do this but it would be funny ----- hell you would probably go to jail anyways.
 
customcruiser said:
I'm gonna start carrying a brick of taped up baking powder......

that way after they illegally search me, AGAIN; they will find it under my seat and think that they got some big bad guy.......

then I will laugh my ass off and play dumb like I really thought it was some coke or heroin.

The cops would be soooooo pissed when they found it was just baking powder.

I'm not really gonna do this but it would be funny ----- hell you would probably go to jail anyways.
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You might go to jail, but then you could sue the pants off the dept for illegal search and seizure. (They'd probably just present a real bag of coke and put you away.)
 
possession of a substance designed to imitate illegal narcotics for the purpose of fraudulent distribution



Err.....thats what I have heard it may have been called./
 
Theres a lot of misinformation in this thread, but I will address what I can:

First off, let me just say yes there are plenty of bad apples out there that ruin it for everyone else. But really this is no different than any other profession, and I would be willing to say that the bad apple to good apple ratio is much more favorable than the media would like you to believe. You rarely see any good things LEOs do on the news.

Second, as far as the quality of recruits goes, Id say it really depends on the dept as many depts dont have the same standards as others. Also, I can say with quite a bit of certainty that having a degree doesnt give you an edge over someone without, other than maybe the LEO with the degree being a little bit older, which means they are possibly a bit more mature (sometimes).

A criminal justice degree does VERY LITTLE to prepare you for work as a police officer. I would venture to say that I know MORE LEOs that are better officers that dont have a degree than ones that do.
 
majorpayne said:
I would be willing to say that the bad apple to good apple ratio is much more favorable than the media would like you to believe. You rarely see any good things LEOs do on the news.
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most of what everyone is basing it on is personal experience from what ive gathered....hell who cares what the media says, they cant even look outside when its raining and make an accurate weather forecast
 
redneckjeep87 said:
most of what everyone is basing it on is personal experience from what ive gathered....hell who cares what the media says, they cant even look outside when its raining and make an accurate weather forecast
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Youre right, I was speaking more in general terms though, as most people havent really come "in contact" with LEOs, other than maybe a speeding ticket.
 
saf-t scissors said:
How do you differentiate your argument from the Army's requirement that all officers have a 4yr degree?
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In much the same way that I wouldn't be surprised if the rank of Captain or Lieutenant in the police force carried the same requirement.
 
Rich said:
In much the same way that I wouldn't be surprised if the rank of Captain or Lieutenant in the police force carried the same requirement.
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It doesnt...the only incentive you get for having a degree is the pay is slightly higher

A degree can help with promotions (particularly to higher up ranks, ie: capt, assistant chief, chief) but isnt necessary.
 
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