Water 4 Gas

vanguard said:
x2
The basic idea is that you split up water (H20) and then combine it back again. The process of combining it via combustion gives off energy, which you harness to make the car go.
Sadly, the energy used to combine the gases can't be greater than the energy it took to split up the water in the first place. In a perfect theoretical world you break even. In the real world there is wasted energy in both the splitting and the combining so you're at a loss. It's a waste of time, you can't run your car on water. Some thing in science are just understood and won't be changing, this is one of those things.
I'm more excited about pure electric cars or hybrids that only use gas when the batteries are low but are normally charged by plugging them in. When we have that, we can focus on large scale green energy sources like solar, nuclear, wind, hydroelectric, etc. (Ok, they aren't perfectly green but they are all better than coal.)
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Not saying this thing works but the idea is your taking energy in the form of voltage which doesnt help get you down the road and making a gas to burn to make energy that helps move you down the road. As for electric cars or plug in hybrids its the same idea you are still useing energy in one form to make energy in another. Batterys have to be charged and the charger has to have electric power to work.
 
BigRedB2 said:
right....but its the type of energy you use to split the atoms. I have no idea how these set ups are working, but a am going to assume the use electricity from the battery or altenator. Neither are power sources used in propulsion of the vehicle. So...you are not creating energy or magnifying it. Your transfering it from one vehicle system to the other.
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this was my understanding as well, I'm really interested inm this cause my Z71 Tow rig needs all the help it can get :shaking:
 
BigRedB2 said:
right....but its the type of energy you use to split the atoms. I have no idea how these set ups are working, but a am going to assume the use electricity from the battery or altenator. Neither are power sources used in propulsion of the vehicle. So...you are not creating energy or magnifying it. Your transfering it from one vehicle system to the other.
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But where does this energy come from?? A fraction of it came when you bought the battery, but most of it comes from the alternator, right?

Well where does the current produced by the alternator come from? It comes from the mechanical energy produced by a small percentage of the gas you burn. This mechanical energy is converted to electrical energy by the alternator.

Since there is not going to be any energy created, you are essentially burning gas to produce the energy to split molecules, nothing is free.

You are right that electrical current is not what propels the car, but it is energy leached out of your available propulsion power and converted into a different form. So yes, in a way, the power this system takes is being stolen from the gas you burn..... and taking into account the innefficiencies present in EVERY system, there is no way it makes any sense.
 
idk don't superchargers technically leach off the engine power? Yet look at the difference they make. I know a whole different system, but I don't see how taking power from your alternator can't help you increase gas mileage, heck for less than $50 i could get my stock alternator juiced to put out 140 or so amps and i'd have plenty of power then. Besides My subs have to be pulling more power than the water conv thing does . . . .
 
well my main point was just that that electrical energy isn't at all "free" like some were implying, it comes from the gas you put in the tank.

As far as i am concerned, until i see some VERY convincing evidence otherwise, nothing about this seems even mildly realistic.
 
....... its not like when you turn on your lights or radio you lose gas mileage.....

the alt use the same amount of "fuel" if its putting our power or not (drag on the pulley)

i dont know if it works but if it did then it would be more $$
 
I understand that no energy is free. Thats what I was saying about the hybrids and electric cars. The energy to charge the batterys comes from some where. IF this thing works. Lets say your MPG goes up 20% with a car that gets 20MPG you would gain 4MPG. The draw from the alt. making that extra 20amps to run your HHO maker will be more than it was but wont be near enough cancel out the 4MPG gain.
 
customcruiser said:
....... its not like when you turn on your lights or radio you lose gas mileage.....

the alt use the same amount of "fuel" if its putting our power or not (drag on the pulley)
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Actually, not true. As current being made by the alternator goes up, it becomes harder to spin. If there was nothing using current from it, it would spin freely, and become harder to spin the more amperage it is producing.

So technically, running your headlights might make you get worse mileage, or it definitely makes your engine work *slightly* harder.
 
awspence said:
Actually, not true. As current being made by the alternator goes up, it becomes harder to spin. If there was nothing using current from it, it would spin freely, and become harder to spin the more amperage it is producing.

So technically, running your headlights might make you get worse mileage, or it definitely makes your engine work *slightly* harder.
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:devils advocate: So by that Theroy (which is technically correct) an MSD or other Ignition system shouldn't work either.

It creates more spark by amping up electricity, but you can't create more energy for free. So it has to pull it from the Alternator. But somehow somewhere along the line More energy, more horsepower and better fuel economy are the product.

(I'm sure there's some flaw in there somewhere, I'm no freaking engineer, and I didn't stay at a holiday inn express). But the general idea is in there..... somewhere... :lol:

Edit: they also said you could never sail from Europe East to the Indies...
 
^not an equal comparison to power draw of say an audio amplifier or headlights.

anyone with a big audio system has seen headlights dim and idle speed decrease a bit when the subs hit hard.
 
Hurley said:
^not an equal comparison to power draw of say an audio amplifier or headlights.
anyone with a big audio system has seen headlights dim and idle speed decrease a bit when the subs hit hard.
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A big system is pulling more 20amps. Any draw you add will make the alt harder to turn but you aint gonna be able to tell a 20amp draw in MPG.
 
mbalbritton said:
:devils advocate: So by that Theroy (which is technically correct) an MSD or other Ignition system shouldn't work either.

It creates more spark by amping up electricity, but you can't create more energy for free. So it has to pull it from the Alternator. But somehow somewhere along the line More energy, more horsepower and better fuel economy are the product.

(I'm sure there's some flaw in there somewhere, I'm no freaking engineer, and I didn't stay at a holiday inn express). But the general idea is in there..... somewhere... :lol:

Edit: they also said you could never sail from Europe East to the Indies...
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No, you're exactly right, it obviously adds more than it takes away from overall power. What jrraw said about a supercharger is another good example of this, robbing HP to create even more.

I guess i dont have anything else to say about the topic except that i am a skeptic, but not a skeptic of the fact that burning hydrogen along with your fuel could increase efficiency and decrease emissions possibly. What i am a skeptic of is being able to easily produce a sufficient amount of hydrogen on board your car to make this work.
 
Wow. I'm glad I just read the last couple of pages. Free power or free energy...it does not exist, but you can keep believing in it if it makes you feel better.

The 2nd law of thermodynamics covers this...it's the conservation of energy. What goes in has to be equal to what goes out, including energy lost due to heat (rather than work) generated, friction, etc.

To get that extra power from a supercharger, you end up dumping in more gas.
 
My system is pulling right at 3amps. We shall see if it is worth it or not.
 
gmcjimmy88 said:
Not sure if this is even on the same level as to what you guys are referring to but, I know certain Aircraft that injects water to increase power for take-off.
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^
I work along side an air craft that uses water injection and it is not the same. What water injection does in the air craft is cause the exhaust gasses to become denser then the normal surronding air. Also, the injection takes place after the combustion chamber.
As far as this whole HHO Generator thing goes, I am very interested in it and have been trying to research it for the past couple of months. If you are interested there are videos on youtube of actual mileage test, just search "water for fuel."
 
talked to my neighbor last night. He is a mechanic with his own shop. He had a client come in that has a PT Cruiser with the HHO set up on it. The guy is claiming 70mpg.

that's his claims anyway. He said his only problem right now is that apparently he runs hotter and needs to find a way to cool it better. Also said his system is pulling 12 amps.
 
70mpg is a heck of a jump for PT Cruiser. I wounder if he is also playing with the computer to run it leaner ?
 
i have a friend with a 4 cyl civic hatchback that gets 60+ mpg....no HHO conversion. imagine if that technology worked and he applied it to this vehicle!
 
Any updates? I chose to buy most of my system, so I'm just waiting for everything to get here now. But, it's going on my frame-off CJ, so I won't know what advantage it has over factory.
 
Well......Still working with the formula. The first tank I gained 2.5mpg , which is only 15% increase. Was it because of the HHO? My driving style and course are pretty consistant so it could be working. I am going to up the formula a little and see if it holds consistant or increases some. I had a down week this week having to drive a different vehicle. Should know more next week, will keep you posted.
 
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