Weld on Bead lock production

[upnover]

Aluminum? in a 17" 32bolt.

A possibility. As of now just working with steel. Will have to get some aluminum and see what we can work out. The biggest issue I have seen with the aluminum is that because of the lower melt, the slag tends to burn back into the work peice. This may be preventable with adjustments. Not sure. When I have an answer, I will let you know
Thanks

 

[upnover]

upnover,
What kind of price are you looking at getting for a set with no design? total of 8 rings and 4 anitconing? and all 128 nuts, washer and bolts?
Also, what is the thickness of the rings?

Price has not yet been set. When We know, you will know. 1/4 inch plate is what we are going to use.

 

[Ron]

Tell ya what.
Sine I have been wanting to upgrade to bead locks for a while, and this is a new product. How about you ship a set to me (free of course, shipping paid) and I will test them out and see how good your quality is.

Then I will come on here and brag about the quality (or bitch if its bad) and will only charge a small advertising fee.

Whatcha think?
Im ready when you are.
PM me I am also an authorized snake-oil dealer. Tax break sale. Everything must go. Bulk discounts available.

 

[jeepercreature]

Tell ya what.
Sine I have been wanting to upgrade to bead locks for a while, and this is a new product. How about you ship a set to me (free of course, shipping paid) and I will test them out and see how good your quality is.
Then I will come on here and brag about the quality (or bitch if its bad) and will only charge a small advertising fee.
Whatcha think?
Im ready when you are.
PM me I am also an authorized snake-oil dealer. Tax break sale. Everything must go. Bulk discounts available.

man, you drive a hard bargin...How can he pass on that deal?

 

[upnover]

Tell ya what.
Sine I have been wanting to upgrade to bead locks for a while, and this is a new product. How about you ship a set to me (free of course, shipping paid) and I will test them out and see how good your quality is.
Then I will come on here and brag about the quality (or bitch if its bad) and will only charge a small advertising fee.
Whatcha think?
Im ready when you are.
PM me I am also an authorized snake-oil dealer. Tax break sale. Everything must go. Bulk discounts available.

 

[Rich]

The coning ring does more than ensure a flat clamp onto the bead, it keeps the ring flat under the bolt head, loading it evenly.

I would not have purchased the locks I did were it not for the ring. it's just the better way to do it.

Mine use 24 3/8" bolts (Grade 5 is fine for this IMO, since it's still quite a bit stronger than a 5/16" grade 8)

 

[mbalbritton]

Something I learned from Terry Moorefield, Don't use Hex Head bolts. Rub them against a rock and you're gonna be popping the heads of the bolts off. Button Head bolts will allow the head to slide over the rock. having to clean out a bur from the interal hex head of a button head bolt vs, popping heads off bolts on the trail, I'd rather clean burrs personally.

 

[BigJUGGY]

Flames

Man those flames rings remind me of some medieval tire shredder on a chariot

You mean when you wheel aint you Chip!!! You carry swords in your rig too??

 

[Caver Dave]

Something I learned from Terry Moorefield, Don't use Hex Head bolts. Rub them against a rock and you're gonna be popping the heads of the bolts off. Button Head bolts will allow the head to slide over the rock. having to clean out a bur from the interal hex head of a button head bolt vs, popping heads off bolts on the trail, I'd rather clean burrs personally.

OK, sounds good, but I'm in an analytical mood right now...

1) *IF* you should pop the head off a bolt, what does that mean?
2) Will the tire go flat? Probably not given the other 31/23 bolts holding fine...
3) Once the head is gone, what do you have... a "stud" with a nut on the inside?
4) What's keeping you from pushing it out of the inner ring and throwing another in the hole? Mind you these are straight un-threaded holes...worse case I see is you have to use a punch to push it thru if it's tight
5) It's been argued by some that having the hex heads stuck out could benefit you in certain situations... using the bolt heads to grip rocks parallel to the rim...

 

[ProjekTJ]

I'm game for a set of 4-15". I like the smaller lipped ring. But I'm open to suggestions.

 

[upnover]

OK, sounds good, but I'm in an analytical mood right now...
1) *IF* you should pop the head off a bolt, what does that mean?
2) Will the tire go flat? Probably not given the other 31/23 bolts holding fine...
3) Once the head is gone, what do you have... a "stud" with a nut on the inside?
4) What's keeping you from pushing it out of the inner ring and throwing another in the hole? Mind you these are straight un-threaded holes...worse case I see is you have to use a punch to push it thru if it's tight
5) It's been argued by some that having the hex heads stuck out could benefit you in certain situations... using the bolt heads to grip rocks parallel to the rim...

If you popped one off, yes, push it thru and stick another one in. If it's close, you may have to hold the bolt part with some needle nose vice grips, and turn the nut off.
Will it go flat, I doubt it. I took one of mine apart the other day, I didn't loose air until I took the 7th one out!
Right now with the quotes I am getting for hardware, button head bolts will add another$38.00 to a set of 4. The button head or cap screws are more than twice the cost. I will be leaving that to the customer.

Another thought is whether to use a grade 8 or a grade 5
Talking with a hardware specialist today, he reconfirmed to me my suspicions.
While grade 8 bolts are super strong, Grade 5 bolts are tougher! Ok let me splain

If you hit a grade 8 on a rock, because of the hardness, it may snap right off. the beadlock surface acing as a knife. In the same situation and you hit a grade 5, you are more likely to bend it, as it does have more elasticity.

 

[mbalbritton]

Chip, if you're interested in it or not, How does the price of 100 Stainless bolts and 100 Stainless washers for about $35 sound? I got the info for you if you want it.

 

[Rich]

If you hit a grade 8 on a rock, because of the hardness, it may snap right off. the beadlock surface acing as a knife. In the same situation and you hit a grade 5, you are more likely to bend it, as it does have more elasticity.

Will this myth NEVER die? Grade 8 is stronger IN EVERY WAY than a grade 5. Period. end of story. Been proven time and time again.

A grade 5 would bend and break before a grade 8 even reaches the bending point.

That hardware specialist needs to go back to school, sorry. http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/NutsandBolts/index.html

 

[Rich]

Something I learned from Terry Moorefield, Don't use Hex Head bolts. Rub them against a rock and you're gonna be popping the heads of the bolts off. Button Head bolts will allow the head to slide over the rock. having to clean out a bur from the interal hex head of a button head bolt vs, popping heads off bolts on the trail, I'd rather clean burrs personally.

Now you know I have alot of respect for Terry, BUT... There's reasons he was losing bolt heads, and it has NOTHING to do with hex head bolts. His beadlocks have a thin lock ring that bends easily, and there are only 16 5/16" bolts on the wheel. Because the ring cones in so bad, he's getting uneven loading on the bolt head surface, reducing the actual strength of the bolt (Which even though he always uses grade 8, wasn't as strong as a 3/8" grade 5 to begin with)

Yes, button head bolts will slide over rocks. I have watched the bolt heads on mine help pull the rig UP the rock, not slide on it. isn't the point to CLIMB the rocks, not slide off them?

It takes me literally no more than 15 seconds to clean up the hex head bolt with a file to where I can use a socket on them, no matter how bad they are. Have you had to try and open up a button head hex bolt that has a large burr covering the hole? Have fun with that. BTDT, it sucks ass.

 

[Rich]

By the way, I know I'm nit-picking here, but if Chip's idea is to build the best possible product, then it's my opinion everything warrants discussion.

 

[mbalbritton]

Good call Rich, I'll buy that info.

if Chip's idea is to build the best possible product, then it's my opinion everything warrants discussion.

Exactly why I was bringing up anything I can think of. Be it arguable info, lame info, or good info. (not that Rich is stoopid, just that there's no Thumbs up smilie).

 

[BIGWOODY]

I need to look around at my old video. When I ran allied 32 bolts on my cherokee I have video of sparks flying off of the bolt heads as they clawed there way up the rocks. I like hex head bolts, they make nice side lugs.

 

[upnover]

Guys, Rich in particular, I take o no offense what so ever to any and all comments that has been or will be made. Point is, I am asking for a reason. We want to know what the consumer wants. I have gotten emails, pm's, and replies here telling me what they have seen work, what they want, what they have seen fail. I know if I offer one product, one way, then I will not please everyone. So, the biggest reason I have yet to post a price is that I do not have enough info on all the options as of yet. But we are getting close and I am ready to start making these things!

A few more questions and comments, I would like to have feed back on:

A good friend of mine put a fist size hole thru his 44 Swamper and bought someones spare. He had it taken apart yesterday so he could put his Trail Ready Beadlock on the new tire. So, yes, I looked at the trail ready. Now bear in mind I have no idea how old his bead locks are. But with it broke down, I noticed that the wheel was steel. I always thought they were all aluminum. I also noticed that the inner ring, that had been welded on, was a lot smaller than the one I am planning. Both in thickness, and in band width. I think it was a 24 hole ring, and it had 5/16" bolts, not 3/8. Another observation was that the inner ring was Plasma cut, and also put on in two pieces. So,....

1. What do you think of an inner ring that is in two pieces, that can be welded together. I could do this by making a jig to align the holes properly, or I could ship them in two pieces.

2. What do you think is wide enough for the inner ring? How much is needed? how much is over kill?

3. Cutting the ring in two pieces would decrease the cost on my end, and seeing a company like TR doing it, tells me that it's possible, and that it is strong. Few can argue with the strength and dependability of a TR.

Greg you wrote and asked about 17" aluminum. Were you wanting to build an ALL aluminum beadlock, or something with just an aluminum outside ring, with a steel wheel?

Thanks guys for all the input.

 

[upnover]

Chip, if you're interested in it or not, How does the price of 100 Stainless bolts and 100 Stainless washers for about $35 sound? I got the info for you if you want it.

Yes, please send that info. I will check it against what I can get them for locally. I didn't check on stainless as an option. but I will.

Sure would be nice if they offered these in 128 count boxes LOL

 

[Rich]

Chip, if you're interested in it or not, How does the price of 100 Stainless bolts and 100 Stainless washers for about $35 sound? I got the info for you if you want it.

Make sure you check the strength, too.. Most stainless stuff is a shade above grade 2. And IIRC, they don't play well without anti-sieze.

 

[upnover]

A little off topic, but not completely, But what's the best way to test the strength of a bolt.
I am thinking to torque it in say 5lb increments until it fails

Rich in my past experience with stainless bolts is that they are closer to a grade 5 than they are a three. And they will twist more and bend more before coming apart. The biggest advantage would be the not rusting part using stainless bolts I guess

 

[mbalbritton]

Yes, please send that info. I will check it against what I can get them for locally. I didn't check on stainless as an option. but I will.
Sure would be nice if they offered these in 128 count boxes LOL

You can order whatever count you need. 128 would be nice, but I know the boxes come in 100ct.

Lightning Bolt & Screw Inc
2604 Tampa East Blvd
Tampa, FL 33619
(813) 630-2658

Shipped to my door was $37 for 100ct as I recall. Seems it was 26¢ ea for the button head bolts and 6¢ for the washers. plus shipping. This is from memory mind you, but it was $35-$37 range. I'd think hex head would be cheaper too. They have great prices because they specialize in SS. Not sure if they deal in grade5 and 8 too, but worth asking for comparisons.

Also for tests. I'd find a way to test sheer strength too.

 

[upnover]

more pics

A few more varietys and colors

 

[upnover]

and

more

 

[bigwaylon]

Chip, if you're interested in it or not, How does the price of 100 Stainless bolts and 100 Stainless washers for about $35 sound? I got the info for you if you want it.

I just got a quote for $32.63 per 100 here in Charlotte for Stainless...


BTW...the place I talked to said that Stainless prices are changing about every 2-3 days, due to the fact most all Stainless is imported...

Greg