who here dislikes dealerships?

highrollintj said:
well maybe if i drove a chevy i would be a little more experienced at having to fix things
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You'd have quadripplejointed elbows and 6 fingers on each had to be good at it. :flipoff2: Not much different than Toys in that respect.


Seriously, you're not getting man, any lift changes the operating angle of things like driveshafts and steering. What adaquate in the stock location and stock capabilities is no longer adaquate once modded. More movement, smaller angles, higher stresses and a bag of chips leads to earlier failures. The larger tires weight and higher rolling resistence probaly shortened the trannys life as well (and if you drive like a moron and use the gearbox to change directions when backing out of parking spaces)All this has a effect on life. Thing about this, why does everyone with a brain change out the rears on those? Because the stocker is barely adaquate for it, much less when the added stress of big tires, lockers, bigger go-pedal feet and strange angles beyond the engineering stresses are added. Most folks who get it one of those change the fronts out too, same deal, big stress on little stuff means breakage. If you really wanna get it, time for 60's. :flipoff2: :driver:
 
well i am not gonna run 60's yet but i do have them planned for the future. i am gettin ready to replace my axles with some waggy 44 that i bought.

oh sorry rich i'll get that static angle for you after i am done working today.
 
I think were all arguing here about different stuff, When Chris said that the lift didn't change the proper angle at the front u joint he was correct due to his adjustable arm. He has reset the pinion angle at the front to were it was at stock or at least pretty dang close to it, so the arguement from the dealer saying that the angle causing the ujoint failure at the front axle is incorrect in that sense. Yes the angle at the Tcase front and rear have changed, but the angle at the front axle has not due to his adjustable arms being set in the proper angle, thus being no different from stock.
 
jrraw23 said:
Yes the angle at the Tcase front and rear have changed, but the angle at the front axle has not due to his adjustable arms being set in the proper angle, thus being no different from stock.
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depends on what you think is the proper angle, if he used his arms to adjust caster properly after a lift, then his ujoint WILL see a different angle, since the pinion is at the approximately the same angle as before

if he used his adjustable arms to set pinion to driveshaft angle to pre-lift specs by adding more pinion angle until they lined up, i would hate to see what his caster numbers are, and i hope that this isnt the criteria he used to adjust them?
 
awspence said:
depends on what you think is the proper angle
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Not really. It's irrelevant. He lifted the truck, the u-joint failed, and he's complaining because the dealership refused to replace it... which they're within their rights to do.

Aside from those simple facts, the bitching and whining clarifies the image of an immature, self-centered child who complains when things don't go his way.
 
I look at it this way and this is my own opinion as to how dealerships work I think it's descretion of the dealer. Unless warranty personel from corporate come down they never see the vehicle and only know what they are told by the techs. My boss's uncle is VERY good friends with one of the owners here at the Jeep dealer in town whom the owner of the Jeep dealer bought a bought from us as to which I performed all rigging task on. After 3 weeks and 3 trips to the dealer to get my axle seals replaced in my Rubicon they said the vehicle was abused and at the time it was a daily driven vehicle. Of course he was going out of his way to sell me a new one after mine got wrecked. On my previos truck the rear end failed at 8500 miles. They knew the truck went off road, had aftermarket oversized tires and such and replaced it no questions asked. At 17,xxx miles a front CV shaft went bad and they even overnighted the parts in and had it fixed the next day no questions asked after I told them I was on the beach when the axle failed. Some dealers are ok with things some are not
 
saf-t scissors said:
Not really. It's irrelevant. He lifted the truck, the u-joint failed
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i agree completely, that is what i was pointing out, that it was kinda stupid for jrraw to be saying that the angle hadnt changed, as he was claiming the adjustable arms solved the problem, but i showed him the two possible situations, and the arms didnt completely solve either
 
i took the u joint out and the bearings have a lot of grit in them, therefore the cause of the failure was grit getting into the bearings, not the angle of the drive shaft.
 
I think that, in the end here, thsi is an excellent lesson in psychology.
Mostly in the only long-standing, hard rule that exists in either psychology or sociology - people are different. Period.
If you learn to accept and deal with this, you'll find it easier to get along in life.
Look at the examples given here. Some folks here have had OK experiences w/ warranties, and otehrs not so. Why? b/c theire dealin gw/ different people. In the end, it's gonna come down to where the guy(s)/lady(s) you are talking to at the dealer decide to be an a$$hole or not. If they're in a bad mood or not.
Best you can do is to hope you're dealing w/ somebody who is cool about it, and if not, then at leastd try and be as nice and polite as you can. Start off by making a joke w/ them, commentin gabout teh weather, ask about soem new vehicle they have... hell basically flirt w/ 'em. You gotta remmeber that the otehr guy/gal is just some otehr guy/gal like you, that at the end of the day wants to go home, say "Fuck work, I'm done" and drink a beer too.
If yer not so lucky - well, sorry. Life sucks like that.

A warranty is just like a dollar bill, house title or even government constitution - just some piece of paper whose "value" lays only in the relationship between the people using it.
 
jrraw23 said:
Yes the angle at the Tcase front and rear have changed, but the angle at the front axle has not due to his adjustable arms being set in the proper angle, thus being no different from stock.
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And HOW MANY lift kits have you installed for people and charged them money for doing it? :shaking:

hirollintj said:
I took the u joint out and the bearings have a lot of grit in them, therefore the cause of the failure was grit getting into the bearings
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But at any rate, looks like the dealer was right for not honoring the warranty on your u-joint...
 
awspence said:
i agree completely, that is what i was pointing out, that it was kinda stupid for jrraw to be saying that the angle hadnt changed, as he was claiming the adjustable arms solved the problem, but i showed him the two possible situations, and the arms didnt completely solve either
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Umm don't know how I coulda been more clear man :flipoff2: Nah lol, I was just sayin the angle at the axle, or pinion, wont change if you were to set the adjustable arms at the right setting to make it the same as the stock angle. Never said anything bout the caster. Yea that will throw your caster off a little bit but thats not what failed it was the ujoint so I was just sayin that if you were to set your arms to make the ujoint or angle that the axle points at the tcase to be the same than nah it hasnt changed from stock. And i'm just refering to the angle factor, not the other factors that could have caused u joint failure like larger tire, grit in the u joint, etc.

Come on Now Rich I've been around long enough to know about setting angles :fuck-you: , I was just talking hypothetiacally folks

PS: I know ya'll like how I spelled hypothetiacally :smokin:
 
If you move the axle away from the transfer case, you can adjust one angle, but not both. Mathematically impossible. (geometry)

Grit in there? the way those things are made sounds more like bearings being eat up. Not much room in there for grease much less anything else.
 
If you move the axle away from the transfer case, you can adjust one angle, but not both. Mathematically impossible. (geometry)
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Thank you, lol. That what I've been trying to say for the last 3 posts :shaking: finnaly someone understands ;)

As far as grit/mud causing the u joint failure I don't see why a dealer shouldn't warranty that. What do they tell all the construction workers that get mud on there work truck all the time? Or the people who live on dirt roads and have to drive on it when it rains really bad, etc, etc "Sorry were not going to warranty it because you broke it doing daily driving activities" ? I'm just saying not warrantying the ujoint because mud/grit got in it seems like a bad idea on there part because every other truck or suv will get mud/grit on it somehow or another even if its just cause they drove throu a puddle cause it rained that day, ya know?
 
jrraw23 said:
Thank you, lol. That what I've been trying to say for the last 3 posts :shaking: finnaly someone understands ;)QUOTE]


without cutting and turning knuckles, he could have either set the caster properly and had a bad pinion angle, causing the ujoint to fail, or he could have set the pinion angle correctly and had the caster be way off, you cant have it both ways without cutting and turning, i have no idea what he did, but if i had to guess i would bet that the set the caster to make the car driveable and said forget about the pinion angle

either way, his setup WAS NOT the same as stock, and THIS HELPED LEAD TO THE JOINT PREMATURELY FAILING, maybe there was grit, but either way, i think everyone here knows that when you modify a new vehicle with a warranty, you are taking the risk that that warranty will be voided by the manufacturer, suck it up
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ok look i have already had two different mechanics tell me that the u-joint did not fail because of the pinion angle.
 
awspence said:
without cutting and turning knuckles, he could have either set the caster properly and had a bad pinion angle, causing the ujoint to fail, or he could have set the pinion angle correctly and had the caster be way off, you cant have it both ways without cutting and turning, i have no idea what he did, but if i had to guess i would bet that the set the caster to make the car driveable and said forget about the pinion angle
either way, his setup WAS NOT the same as stock, and THIS HELPED LEAD TO THE JOINT PREMATURELY FAILING, maybe there was grit, but either way, i think everyone here knows that when you modify a new vehicle with a warranty, you are taking the risk that that warranty will be voided by the manufacturer, suck it up
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Once again man, I think you are missing what I was saying, lol. You just repeated what I was saying again, lol. Yes you can set the angle at the axle (pinoin angle) but you mess with the caster. Thats what I've been sayinag all along I was just saying it is possible to get the angle at the pinion back to stock I never said that it wouldnt affect the caster angle when you did that I was just saying the hypothetical situation that one might do that weather its bad or not.

Wow how many times have I posted the same thing now and you have still yet to get what I'm saying is the same thing you are :flipoff2: lol, im just messin with you man, but yea I AGREE WITH YOU, lol i've been saying the same thing all along just not mentioning the caster thing because i thought it was understood, lol.
 
jrraw23 said:
...Sorry were not going to warranty it because you broke it doing daily driving activities" ? I'm just saying not warrantying the ujoint because mud/grit got in it seems like a bad idea on there part because every other truck or suv will get mud/grit on it somehow or another even if its just cause they drove throu a puddle cause it rained that day, ya know?
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not trying to start anymore arguments here...but I have seen this TJ in person and know exactly how it is wheeled... pictures on your beastinc site show it covered in mud (not just driving through a mud puddle on a rainy day), driving in the mud is fine if thats what you like to do...but as im sure you know it destroys things. If you want to go "mudding" thats fine, to each his own....but dont complain when things break because they arent cleaned properly. I have seen this TJ in Raleigh up close several times (as the owner has come to use tools at our house several times) and i dont believe i have ever seen it not covered in mud.

I just think that the argument is kinda stupid as the TJ is not just a "street driven, go through rainy puddles, accidently get a little dirt on it every now and then" rig. The part was destroyed by dirt, and mud...things that dont get splased up onto the tcase in normal every day driving. The dealership can cover what they want to cover, and they obviously feel that this case shoudnt be covered...no point in fighting on the internet about it...we cant change the fact that its not covered.

Just my .02
 
highrollintj said:
skihik5, do you even off road that thing?
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Yes, when the money, job and most importantly wife allow:D

So about once or twice a year, I make a week trip.

As far as "Off Road". rom Late August through December I am in the woods 4 or 5 days a week deer hunting, and it serves its purpose there,...and some of the access roads to gt to our land would make most of URE blush :lol:

But no unfortunately I do not have the luxury of weekly trips off road, so I choose my spots and bash the hell outta mine when I get the chance...and when something breaks, thats is the cost of my hobby...Golfers lose balls I explode ujoints, axle shafts, oil pans etc...:fuck-you:
 
slravene said:
not trying to start anymore arguments here...but I have seen this TJ in person and know exactly how it is wheeled... pictures on your beastinc site show it covered in mud (not just driving through a mud puddle on a rainy day), driving in the mud is fine if thats what you like to do...but as im sure you know it destroys things. If you want to go "mudding" thats fine, to each his own....but dont complain when things break because they arent cleaned properly. I have seen this TJ in Raleigh up close several times (as the owner has come to use tools at our house several times) and i dont believe i have ever seen it not covered in mud.
I just think that the argument is kinda stupid as the TJ is not just a "street driven, go through rainy puddles, accidently get a little dirt on it every now and then" rig. The part was destroyed by dirt, and mud...things that dont get splased up onto the tcase in normal every day driving. The dealership can cover what they want to cover, and they obviously feel that this case shoudnt be covered...no point in fighting on the internet about it...we cant change the fact that its not covered.
Just my .02
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Oh yea Chris is my bud and we wheel all the time, I never said that his wasnt wheeled hard or that it isnt ever dirty. I was just saying the hypothetical situations that could arise in a normal daily driver that "might" could cause u joint failure so if they were to not cover his specifically because muddy then they really shouldnt cover anyone's vehicle thats muddy. But I mean your right no real sense in argueing anymore I believe this thread has blown waaaay out of proportion, lol. Maybe I should stop useing hypothetical situations as examples either, cause everyone seems to not understand what I'm trying to say, lol.
 
Lee how you gonna say it was "covered" in mud? :flipoff2: haha more like lightly covered but none the less yes it may have had some mud on it cus i do remember one time i had gone fishin on my buddies land the day before i came over there and i had to go through a muddy spot on his gravel trail leading to his pond.
 
ai78.photobucket.com_albums_j81_highrollintj_100_1267.jpg

:D what do yall think about this angle :D
 
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