Winston-Salem police dept. Duchbaggery.

[Paul]

Leave me outta this!

 

[XJsavage]

And I think this is what's ultimately been lost in every single one of my posts. You absolutely 100% SHOULD fight for your rights. But that's a proactive activity, not a reactive activity. If you find yourself in a situation where you're having to fight something like this, you've already lost, and you're the guy bitching on some forum about how unfair life is. You can argue all day about what precedent has been set, you can argue all day how you'd handle this situation, you can argue all day about crooked cops. But...if you really, truly cared about this, you'd use this example to make sure nothing like this happened again. You'd be the flipping Rosa Parks of loitering. I'm not saying I think the original post is correct, but I am saying with current circumstances and laws, I don't see an issue with it. Again, everyone outraged by this incident, who has done anything on behalf of it? However, it can't be a convenience driven stance. One day, that camera guy, in a public setting, WILL make you uncomfortable...and whoever you call on, will say 'sorry, you fought for his right to do that'. Personally...that's why I've gotten in as many scuffles as I have and have my concealed carry. Don't impose rules, I can take care of myself.

So I've broken you down to one arguable point, and for this I feel good about. Your question to me is, "what am I doing about it besides bitch on a forum". Would I be making better progress by keeping it to myself? No. My words weigh as warning to anyone that this is a down to earth, everyday battle we face with law enforcement. I may be a patriot, but I am not a martar. If one was to speak up fully, and would have millions standing behind them, retaliation does happen. I have to much to lose when it does. If you're so pro-police, become one and change the force in such a way that people like myself would not have to complain.

 

[UTfball68]

Dude...scroll back...I've been saying and asking the same questions since the beginning. Got lost because people couldn't handle the fact their very own answers were hypocritical...that depending on the situation, their motives and reactions change. That's not a core belief. They wanted to bitch about big bad cop, instead of breaking this down to the most basic level. IE, do I feel this way all the time, or just out of convenience. That's all I've been asking, playing devil's advocate. In 175 posts, Ron is the only one to give a direct answer. I'm sure what I said also pissed folks off about bitching for the sake of bitching. You don't have to be a martyr to make a difference, that's yet another excuse. It's in the way you vote, in the way you correspond with governing officials, it's in the petition you get signed, etc etc. Calling yourself a martyr so you don't have to do anything is a cop out...and been my point the entire time. It's easy for folks to piss and moan about what liberties are being taken away...but what are they doing to stop it?

 

[UTfball68]

And I'm not pro-police...but I am pro-minimizing conflict with them, when I'm in their sights. I know that's not a fight I can win at that particular point in time. Being a dickhead will only escalate the situation. Now that's my prerogative...but it gives them less ammunition against me later if I file any sort of complaint. In my experience, any time I've been arrested, it went much smoother for me if I was compliant...if I was in the right, my attorney's made sure I was vindicated.

 

[XJsavage]

I (and many others) do feel the same way all the time. We are aware of the crookedness that goes on in law enforcement and government and we prepare ourselves with these encounters. It seems as though my statement of "fight for my rights..." Has been miscontrued as being a dickhead to officers. Not always the case. I'm respectable, yet firm and always know what I'm doing wrong if anything and if so I admit it, politely. Im perhaps the kindest, most proper asshole anyone has ever met. If I run across a dickhead cop, I'm a dickhead back, only when I know I have a leg to stand on. There is no uniform way to handle an officers approach, just as there's no uniform way for them to approach us. It varies. We have a hell of a lot more to lose than they do.

 

[ManglerYJ]

You see a world headed to hell because men were allowed to carry box cutters.
I see a world headed to hell because 100 other men werent willing to risk their safety to take those box cutters away.

No, I see a world with no possible purpose for someone to carry a box-cutter knife on a plane to begin with. It's not like, "Oh darn, this bag of salted pretzels and honey roasted peanuts is SO difficult to get open, I need a box cutter." Point is, we got complacent thinking that nobody could do any harm with a box cutter and by the time anyone on the planes realized their safety was at risk, throats had already been slit and panic set in. All because up to that point, nobody (except the terrorists) thought about any potential safety risk to a box cutter knife on a plane. Now, they take the threat seriously and when someone yells "Jihad" on a plane and rushes the cockpit, people know to take him out vigilante style. BUT (you may say), yelling "Jihad" is just "exercising your freedom of speech!" and "he just ran toward the door of the cockpit because he was tired of sitting on that plane." or whatever crap you want.

We live in a different world than we did 20 years ago. I'm not saying voluntarily give up your right to "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness", I'm just saying that we can't be so naïve and bury our heads in the sand of complacency. When things appear suspicious, police should be allowed to question it peaceably. If that doesn't work, escalation becomes necessary.

 

[UTfball68]

^^^I apologize for blowing up your like box in this thread.

 

[ManglerYJ]

I just find it ironic that the people who are seemingly against the guy in the video are those that live closest in proximity to him and the ones predominantly fighting for his "rights" are those in 1 or more states away. I can only speak for myself, but if he in fact were attempting to video tape the infrastructure of the Winston Salem Police department in "hostile reconnaissance" with the intent of blowing it up (along with the Forsyth County Courthouse in his prior confrontation), those within a reasonable proximity would be affected directly or indirectly. (Greater triad area)

 

[XJsavage]

South Carolinians don't play around when it comes to fighting tyranny. History books will tell you that. And so will we.

 

[ManglerYJ]

South Carolinians don't play around when it comes to fighting tyranny. History books will tell you that. And so will we.

Yep... they fight by seceding from the union and then coming back and then threatening to secede again. (take this in fun please, it's meant to be a joke)

I'm done.

So many strawmen its a fire hazard in this thread


Yall carry on

You see a world headed to hell because men were allowed to carry box cutters.
I see a world headed to hell because 100 other men werent willing to risk their safety to take those box cutters away.

Lets just hand in our guns as well they kill lots of folks.

Then again do us simple peasants even need to be allowed automobiles? The produce such toxic fumes and kill so many. I think only the gov't should have the right to drive and the benevolent dictators can take the peons wherever they need to go.

 

[Bogleparsons]

No, I see a world with no possible purpose for someone to carry a box-cutter knife on a plane to begin with.

No, I see a world with no possible purpose for someone to carry an assault rifle, certain ammo etc. to begin with.

This sounds very close to what some others think we have a NEED for in this country doesn't it?

I'm not busting your balls but the idea that government knows what people NEED and don't is a crock of shit.

 

[XJsavage]

Yep... they fight by seceding from the union and then coming back and then threatening to secede again. (take this in fun please, it's meant to be a joke)

And we were still first.

 

[Ron]

Yep I said I was done but like a fat kid at the ice cream buffet I keep coming back

No, I see a world with no possible purpose for someone to carry a box-cutter knife on a plane to begin with.

This is where we will never agree. I dont think I need to have a purpose to do as I damn well please so long as Im not actively hurting anyone. I have flown over 1,000,000 miles with a pocket knife in my pocket. And none since 9/11...

 

[UTfball68]

Spose I'm a fat kid at the ice cream buffet as well...

I (and many others) do feel the same way all the time. .

I'm going to have to disagree...as I've pointed out before, when posed with the same question, but in front of your very own house, most deflected or flamed me or said 'it depends...' or 'they're done indulging'. Which to me says 'I prefer laws of convenience, but isn't it fun to become a mob and bitch about it on the internet'...not 'this is a travesty to our civil liberties'. And that's been the cusp of my entire questioning...and I've gotten 1...just one guy to say...come hell or high water, regardless of the situation...no doubt about it...no caveats, no 'it depends', no buts, this is the way it should be 100% of the time. Be it the scenario in the original post, in your front yard, at the mall, where ever something like this has to potential to creep you out.

We are aware of the crookedness that goes on in law enforcement and government and we prepare ourselves with these encounters..

This is where I disagree with the approach. There's a huge difference between 'preparing' and 'preventing'. For anyone with teenage daughters, are you trying to 'prepare' her for teenage pregnancy, or are you trying to 'prevent' her from teenage pregnancy. It's the difference between being proactive and reactive to an encounter.

It seems as though my statement of "fight for my rights..." Has been miscontrued as being a dickhead to officers.

No...I've interpreted it as reactive.

Not always the case. I'm respectable, yet firm and always know what I'm doing wrong if anything and if so I admit it, politely. Im perhaps the kindest, most proper asshole anyone has ever met. If I run across a dickhead cop, I'm a dickhead back, only when I know I have a leg to stand on. There is no uniform way to handle an officers approach, just as there's no uniform way for them to approach us. It varies. We have a hell of a lot more to lose than they do.

And I guess this is just where we differ. In my experience, dickhead cops only get dickier when I decide to be a smartass, so why tempt fate? I'd much rather that dickhead cop give me as much ammunition as possible than vice versa.

 

[XJsavage]

Its clear then: you're afraid of them. You cower when around another mortal being with an undeserved authority over you and have been brainwashed into thinking this is normal and you accept it. Worstly, you defend it.
So what you're ok with is, and I'll give an example: say homeland fuckery decided that they would give quarterly searches of all homes in a particular area to "seek out terrorism". They drag you and family out of bed, handcuff, and leave your home in a wreck. OK?
Not with me it isn't.
Police are here to serve us. Not the other way around. I've answered every question you've asked.

 

[ManglerYJ]

This sounds very close to what some others think we have a NEED for in this country doesn't it?

I'm not busting your balls but the idea that government knows what people NEED and don't is a crock of shit.

What's funny is that I don't fit into a lot of common preconceived notions and assumptions about my liberal vs conservative tendencies. Most people assume that since I don't see any purpose in someone carrying a box cutter into a plane as equivalent to an assumption that I would also see no need to own an automatic weapon or an assault style rifle, etc. On the contrary, I think assault style weapons would probably make excellent hunting rifles. Easy to collapse, transport and shoot. Now if someone is trying to make the case that he HAS to have a fully automatic weapon for hunting, I'd suggest that if you need to fire 50 rounds per second to hit your deer then hunting may not be your sport.

 

[UTfball68]

Not afraid at all. You'd be a dumbass to try to fight one (physically or verbally) on the street, on their terms. Go ahead, show me any instance(s) where fighting back (physically or verbally) in a small issue like this one (speeding ticket, asked to move along, etc) has worked out better for anyone. I prefer fair fights in scenarios I can win...in a courtroom, at town hall, at a review board, etc. I've never defended it, simply said, in the current state and with the verbiage of current laws, the officer was within his right.

Furthermore, and hang on, because this is apparently where I lose people...if you have such an issue with the current state, and the verbiage of the laws...this is your (meaning everyone) opportunity to change them...on fair grounds, in a fair fight, on your terms, with the proper backing. As stated previously, rights right and wrongs wrong...well there's a right way and a wrong way to go about making change. However you (meaning everyone) choose to do that, is up to you. If you're not willing to do anything about it...stop bitching for the sake of bitching.

 

[Jeff B]

Ugh...

Your continued reference to my reply had me look back. I see how you would think it's a diversion or deflection. Simply because I referred to me watching a cop handle a situation as described.

I would not indulge your question of "what would I personally do" because that is not what this thread is about.

How ever,

I live in a neighborhood in city limits. There are people walking up & down the street. Some times people stop in front of my house, sometimes they sit there a while.

So no, I am not the asshole that will run out my front door and whip somebodies ass just because I am pre programmed to react out of fear that I am being stalked.

Now, if there was a person that was there for days in a row, I would go and ask their business. Get a feel for their attitude. Then go from there depending on how this specific situation transpired. Would I call a cop, I may I don't know. depends on the specific situation. If I did & the cop violated their rights, guess what. As I said I am a witness..

Also to say nobody on here does anything when they feel their rights have been violated is bullshit/

All you know about anybody here is what you assume & what you are told.

In starting this thread I have created awareness when somebody googles the Winston Salem pd Guess what? You have no idea what I have been involved in or how I have filed complaints with the Lincoln Police dept for questioning me and requesting my ID for no reason. Nor are you aware of me filing formal complaints with the state troopers office for those assholes parking in a handicap spot at the shell station where I get my coffee every morning.

 

[drkelly]

Leave me outta this!

HAHA! I knew you would like that!

 

[UTfball68]

Would I call a cop, I may I don't know. depends on the specific situation.

Bingo...like I said, 1 guy holds steadfast to his outlook, regardless of the situation. There's either something wrong with what happened in the original link or there's not...shouldn't depend on the situation.

 

[XJsavage]

Not afraid at all. You'd be a dumbass to try to fight one (physically or verbally) on the street, on their terms. Go ahead, show me any instance(s) where fighting back (physically or verbally) in a small issue like this one (speeding ticket, asked to move along, etc) has worked out better for anyone.

Umkayy...
COP GETTING OWNED (COMPILATION 2014):
Sorry I haven't videoed the incidents I've been in personally. Will try to next time. I have a spotless criminal background to back it up.

 

[Jeff B]

Bingo...like I said, 1 guy holds steadfast to his outlook, regardless of the situation. There's either something wrong with what happened in the original link or there's not...shouldn't depend on the situation.

 

[Ron]

Bingo...like I said, 1 guy holds steadfast to his outlook, regardless of the situation. There's either something wrong with what happened in the original link or there's not...shouldn't depend on the situation.

meh.
I just simplified your question.
There is black, white and about 6 shades of grey. The damn movie stole the other 44

 

[UTfball68]

Then I guess I'm confused on what the hell everyone is so upset about then. Rights right and wrongs wrong...except the grey areas. And I'm officially backing away from the ice cream buffet for good this time.

 

[ManglerYJ]

Now, if there was a person that was there for days in a row, I would go and ask their business. Get a feel for their attitude. Then go from there depending on how this specific situation transpired. Would I call a cop, I may I don't know. depends on the specific situation. If I did & the cop violated their rights, guess what. As I said I am a witness..

.

I think you just made the point of the double standard. You are perfectly fine with someone outside of your house once. But if they are there for days in a row you would ask their business for being there. This is EXACTLY what the police officer did (albeit rudely). This was not the first time he was at a public place recording. He was known by police by name.