Wow, Apparantly I wasted my $$ and the Auto factory lie's alot . . .

[uglyjeepoffroad]

Claims of HP gain are not always cumulative.
If one things give 20 hp and the other gives 30 hp, it doesn't necessarily mean you get 50 hp together. Probably more like 35.
It would be like putting every mileage gaining gizmo on your truck. If their claims are all right, you would have to stop every few hundred miles and drain the extra gas from the tank to keep it from spilling on the road.
That said, you are still in a bad place, with a crapton of $$$ into a truck that is still not filling your needs. For real answers to your situation, I suggest searching all of the threads you have made in the last 3 years asking how to make this truck do something it was never designed to do, with tires larger than it was ever designed to have.
For the $1500 you just spent on the motor, you could have bought 2 and half 3/4 ton Suburbans like the one I have.
There have been about 20 3/4 ton or better tow rigs for sale on this very forum in the last 3 years for under $5k.
You have spent 2x that on turd polish, all lovingly applied to your beloved Z-71.
Now you have a shiny turd, that still can't fullfil your demands.

 

[Yay!Gurrr]

ricky what size injectors are you running ? What's your PW (pulse width) times?

the 18# you list is that the Fuel Pressure setting ?

700CFM ?? what is the bore size ? (It's hard to compare the CFM as it can vary based on what the pressure is at near the inlet, and who is rating it.. )

A factory 350sized 2 - 50mm bore tbi can flow enough to hit 300hp . Try getting on the thirdgen.org board those guys regularly hit this numbers with their setups..

 

[dlbrando]

when I dynoed my camaro, air/fuel never crossed the dotted line at 13.5. started up around 15 and then tapered down in a nice curve, at 6200RPM it was almost at the line. And I looked at the graph wrong earlier. You are running richer than hell at 3-3.5 too.

Thought about going to another dyno guy? I realize dyno time is expensive, but with what has been done to the motor you should be able to tune that thing better

 

[Ridgerunner]

ok so whoever put down in the books that the 350 in a stock 95 pickup from the factory makes 275 hp and 300 ft lbs of torque aught to be sued for false advertisement, there's absolutely no way and I have proof. I spent like $1500 buying a new 350 block that was bored .40 over, putting in a Comp .444/.444 cam and lifters, vortec heads with 1.6 roller rockers, alum intake manifold, 700 cfm throttle body, new high pressure fuel pump, 18# spring, custom tune, and misc . . . . . . .




Dyno'd at 190 horsepower 250 torque . . . . wtf? What a waste of $$, building small block engines is officially the dumbest thing anyone can try to do when trying to make power. And on top of that I have to buy 92 octane gas from now on


I can't even make my rear end break loose, this is ridiculous, I coulda easily swapped in a cad 500 for much less than that . . .

Wow My Stock 93 350 TBI with 200k+ puts 185 to the rear wheel may be there is somthing wrong with your engine

 

[gmcjimmy88]

From the sounds of everything I say you need to fix your driveline issues or pull the motor and dyno motor alone. I think you will find you drivetrain is sucking up alot of your power.

 

[braxton357]

when I dynoed my camaro, air/fuel never crossed the dotted line at 13.5. started up around 15 and then tapered down in a nice curve, at 6200RPM it was almost at the line. And I looked at the graph wrong earlier. You are running richer than hell at 3-3.5 too.

Thought about going to another dyno guy? I realize dyno time is expensive, but with what has been done to the motor you should be able to tune that thing better

Looks pretty good to me. 12:1 really isn't all that rich, but he could likely make more power by leaning it out some. Not knowing anything about how he built his engine, it might be right where it needs to be--especially under load.

 

[Ricky B]

You have spent 2x that on turd polish, all lovingly applied to your beloved Z-71.
Now you have a shiny turd, that still can't fullfil your demands.

yea but damn its shiny its like blang blang

ricky what size injectors are you running ? What's your PW (pulse width) times?
the 18# you list is that the Fuel Pressure setting ?
700CFM ?? what is the bore size ? (It's hard to compare the CFM as it can vary based on what the pressure is at near the inlet, and who is rating it.. )
A factory 350sized 2 - 50mm bore tbi can flow enough to hit 300hp . Try getting on the thirdgen.org board those guys regularly hit this numbers with their setups..

Stock injectors with a 18# fuel pressure spring, Idk what pulse width is, the 700 cfm tb from xtremefi.com not sure on bore size but 50mm sounds right.

idk the guy dyno'd a camero with the gm 330 crate motor and it got less than mine did

when I dynoed my camaro, air/fuel never crossed the dotted line at 13.5. started up around 15 and then tapered down in a nice curve, at 6200RPM it was almost at the line. And I looked at the graph wrong earlier. You are running richer than hell at 3-3.5 too.

Thought about going to another dyno guy? I realize dyno time is expensive, but with what has been done to the motor you should be able to tune that thing better

Well the guy thats doing this is the guy that owns tbichips.com, the dude does nothing but custom tbi setups for trucks all the time, he had some sick trucks at his house, for some reason mine is just being weird, can't get it to tune right

Wow My Stock 93 350 TBI with 200k+ puts 185 to the rear wheel may be there is somthing wrong with your engine

Must be on a dyno that calculated things differently, sorry but there's no way it would have got that much on the dyno we were using.

the tbichips dude has a part for part engine thats exactly the same as the one that I posted up a link for earlier that some magazine supposedly dynod at over 400 hp and it only made 290some lbs of torque and 270some horsepower

From the sounds of everything I say you need to fix your driveline issues or pull the motor and dyno motor alone. I think you will find you drivetrain is sucking up alot of your power.

def not gonna pull the motor, lol, besides how would I make the tbi stuff run not in the truck? Unfortunately won't be able to replace the tranny till I graduate in may and get a job and start making $$

Looks pretty good to me. 12:1 really isn't all that rich, but he could likely make more power by leaning it out some. Not knowing anything about how he built his engine, it might be right where it needs to be--especially under load.

idk it still runs pretty poorly, hopefully we can get it right sunday, gonna try to mess with it again

 

[79BlueMule]

BS, I have lost all faith mankind, from now on whatever anyone says an engine makes I subtract at least 100 hp from that number

dont do that. my truck only made 153 from the factory, that means i'll be riding around with a dead 53 hp. lol

 

[RufusTheRam]

ricky, learn this and learn it well. horsepower costs money. lots of it. i think a few of us made it clear to you in a towing thread that the numbers you expected were unreasonable, even at the crank.

get the rest of your shit fixed, get it tuned right, and THEN bitch. there is absolutely no reason for you or anyone else to speculate about things until then. i guarantee with that done your $1500 investment will be fair. if it's not, then your expectations are entirely too high for any motor, not just a sbc. i promise you your beloved caddy 500 isn't making any more to the rear wheels.

there are just tons of variables here, so you can't compare numbers to numbers of joe blow's vehicle or listen to anyone that does. what brand of dyno, what was the weather, where it's making power off peak, transmission type, and the list goes on!

are you positive your tuning issues are strictly with the computer? are the valves adjusted correctly? vacuum leaks taken care of?

 

[Exploderpilot]

At what RPM? How's the power under the curve? You tow with that "600hp"?

I'll agree that his numbers are kinda low, but let's compare apples to apples here.. I'd like to see that other guy's Jetta tow.. then we'd see how usable that 300hp is..

Ricky, I'd bet my 8.1L big block only makes in the mid 200's at the wheels for HP. Driveline loss is a bitch, and the bigger axles aren't exactly efficient at transferring power either, not to mention your steel wheels.

Assuming i had stiff enough spring to support the load and enough mass to control the load, I would be able to tow more than the motor/truck Ricky here has. I make more torque and hold it longer at a lower RPM, and make more HP across a wider range than his motor does as well.

I tow two jetskis with it in the summer and can easily put some distance between 1/2ton pickups with similar loads.

But back on topic I think your looking at about the right numbers based on the stats that have been posted. You got a good amount of driveline loss with your setup.

 

[Ricky B]

ricky, learn this and learn it well. horsepower costs money. lots of it. i think a few of us made it clear to you in a towing thread that the numbers you expected were unreasonable, even at the crank.
get the rest of your shit fixed, get it tuned right, and THEN bitch. there is absolutely no reason for you or anyone else to speculate about things until then. i guarantee with that done your $1500 investment will be fair. if it's not, then your expectations are entirely too high for any motor, not just a sbc. i promise you your beloved caddy 500 isn't making any more to the rear wheels.
there are just tons of variables here, so you can't compare numbers to numbers of joe blow's vehicle or listen to anyone that does. what brand of dyno, what was the weather, where it's making power off peak, transmission type, and the list goes on!
are you positive your tuning issues are strictly with the computer? are the valves adjusted correctly? vacuum leaks taken care of?

Yea valves should be adjusted correctly, just did it like any standard valves, tighten till you feel the pushrod is harder to spin then go one half turn further, also sprayed starting fluid all over searching for vacuum leaks . . . . got nothin

Assuming i had stiff enough spring to support the load and enough mass to control the load, I would be able to tow more than the motor/truck Ricky here has. I make more torque and hold it longer at a lower RPM, and make more HP across a wider range than his motor does as well.
I tow two jetskis with it in the summer and can easily put some distance between 1/2ton pickups with similar loads.
But back on topic I think your looking at about the right numbers based on the stats that have been posted. You got a good amount of driveline loss with your setup.

Yea I mean Pretty sure its all getting lost in my drivetrain, which is gonna suck even more when I swap a 4l80e in eventually




Guess the next upgrade is gonna have to be twin turbos, thats the only way I've seen anyone make decent power with a 350 and at least that'll make it run more efficiently. I'm sure tuning the TBI system will be real fun at that point, but at least I know I can make it dump enough fuel with 454 injectors and a real high pressure setting . . . . Heck, that would put out more power than alot of stock diesels

 

[pheery]

i have an nv4500 that you need to swap into that thing, and watch your horsepower numbers go up. it would be night and day from a tired auto. let me know if you are interested...

 

[Flipper]

make sure your timing and advance are correct too, lots of things get out of whack when you rebuild. double check that your cam is in the right phase and that you didn't overtighten the valves (i assume hydraulic). make sure all your cylinders are firing, etc.

 

[upnover]

Yea valves should be adjusted correctly, just did it like any standard valves, tighten till you feel the pushrod is harder to spin then go one half turn further, also sprayed starting fluid all over searching for vacuum leaks . . . . got nothin

QUOTE]

Ricky, pick up a book. That is not the proper way to adjust valves. Also adjusting is different depending on solid or hydraulic lifters.

 

[FishHunt]

Wow 5 pages of TECH in an area cleary marked- "A Place to talk about anything, except tech! NO tech in here!"

Way to go...with the rules and such.

<><Fish

 

[Ricky B]

i have an nv4500 that you need to swap into that thing, and watch your horsepower numbers go up. it would be night and day from a tired auto. let me know if you are interested...

Lol, dude I am broker than hell, and looks like I'm gonna be for a while

make sure your timing and advance are correct too, lots of things get out of whack when you rebuild. double check that your cam is in the right phase and that you didn't overtighten the valves (i assume hydraulic). make sure all your cylinders are firing, etc.

yea set the gears strait up also checked the timing, yea its hydraulic valves, idk how to check how if there too tight other than just doing it all over again, which I guess I could

Ricky, pick up a book. That is not the proper way to adjust valves. Also adjusting is different depending on solid or hydraulic lifters.

There hydraulic, and thats how the instructions with the rockers said to do it, and the instructions with the cam, and how my friend who has built numerous engines told me to do it . . . . How else should I have done it?

Wow 5 pages of TECH in an area cleary marked- "A Place to talk about anything, except tech! NO tech in here!"
Way to go...with the rules and such.
<><Fish

well it was originally intended as I am pissed off thread, and still is, truck is running even worse today ready to drive it off a cliff

 

[braxton357]

What's the CR and are they cast al, hypereutectic, or forged pistons? I've got an old 7.3l psd garrett turbo that I converted to use on a gas engine years ago sitting in the basement. You fab up everything else, figure out how you're going to fuel it, and I'll donate the turbocharger.

 

[dlbrando]

hell, if he doesnt figure out a way to use the turbo I sure as hell will. I could learn to love a 4.7lturbo inline six

 

[Rich]

yea set the gears strait up

http://www.hardcorels1.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=490

 

[greg slade]

There hydraulic, and thats how the instructions with the rockers said to do it, and the instructions with the cam, and how my friend who has built numerous engines told me to do it . . . . How else should I have done it?

did you make sure that you were on the backside of the cam lobe (valve fully closed) on each valve before you adjusted the preload?

Ricky, this is a very precise procedure and you have to spin the motor after every valve adjustment. ie: 16 times to get it right. i go 45 degrees at a time and adjust in the firing order starting with the intake first.
This way you only spin the motor two complete revolutions.

It should,only take you about 15-45 minutes to run your valves, depending on your ability.

 

[Ricky B]

What's the CR and are they cast al, hypereutectic, or forged pistons? I've got an old 7.3l psd garrett turbo that I converted to use on a gas engine years ago sitting in the basement. You fab up everything else, figure out how you're going to fuel it, and I'll donate the turbocharger.

CR? Idk what kinda pistons they are they are bored .40 over but I assume there made outta stock type material so cast i think . . . . it'll be a while before I get around to the turbo charging, like I said tranny will probably be next and I won't be able to mess with it till late summer probably

hell, if he doesnt figure out a way to use the turbo I sure as hell will. I could learn to love a 4.7lturbo inline six

True dat

http://www.hardcorels1.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=490

Yea, I mean I made sure #1 was at TDC when I set it strait up

did you make sure that you were on the backside of the cam lobe (valve fully closed) on each valve before you adjusted the preload?
Ricky, this is a very precise procedure and you have to spin the motor after every valve adjustment. ie: 16 times to get it right. i go 45 degrees at a time and adjust in the firing order starting with the intake first.
This way you only spin the motor two complete revolutions.
It should,only take you about 15-45 minutes to run your valves, depending on your ability.

I just did it by looking at the lifters to see when a valve was closed all the way since I did it with the intake manifold off.

 

[Blkvoodoo]

CR would be compression ratio. If your compression ratio is to low, it'll run, but not have much power. I think Braxton was asking about i your CR to see how viable your set-up was for a turbo ( Dish pistons with open chamber heads are good for a turbo set up with some minor mods)

You state you are stuck running 92 octane gas now, which leads me to believe your compression ration is above 9:1. either that or your timing is WAY out of wack.

IF you actually read the article Rich presented, you would have understood that " straight up" on the timing marks can be several degrees off of TRUE cam and crank TDC relationship, most times the cam timing is retarded, a few degrees ( this variance can be the crank key or the cam dowel pin) Even with an after market cam.

A degree wheel can be had for ~$30 and the dowel bushings are cheap. I'm sure you have a buddy with a dial indicator. the process is explained in the instructions that comes with the wheel. You would be VERY surprised to find how much differance a few degrees makes in cam/crank timing.

 

[Ricky B]

CR would be compression ratio. If your compression ratio is to low, it'll run, but not have much power. I think Braxton was asking about i your CR to see how viable your set-up was for a turbo ( Dish pistons with open chamber heads are good for a turbo set up with some minor mods)

You state you are stuck running 92 octane gas now, which leads me to believe your compression ration is above 9:1. either that or your timing is WAY out of wack.

IF you actually read the article Rich presented, you would have understood that " straight up" on the timing marks can be several degrees off of TRUE cam and crank TDC relationship, most times the cam timing is retarded, a few degrees ( this variance can be the crank key or the cam dowel pin) Even with an after market cam.

A degree wheel can be had for ~$30 and the dowel bushings are cheap. I'm sure you have a buddy with a dial indicator. the process is explained in the instructions that comes with the wheel. You would be VERY surprised to find how much differance a few degrees makes in cam/crank timing.

Oh duh on the compression ratio, lol, I mean I'm not sure what it is, probably stock, I didn't change pistons or anything other than w/e the engine build place put in for bored .40 over pistons, I don't know how I would find that out, I mean I know how to do a compression test, but not really sure how to see what the compression ratio is.

On the 93 octane, thats just what the guy told me to do, tbichips.com guy, he said i didn't have to but that he could program it better with it

He can control the timing with the computer, that was something he was adjusting while we on the dyno, I will say this, when i was first finishing it and getting it running it did seem to run poorly at idle with the timing set at 0 I advanced it 4 degrees and it seemed much better so I left it there, but yea he can control the timing from the computer as well so idk what he has it set at.

I did read the entire article Rich Posted, thats why I made the comment about TDC, I've never heard of using a degree wheel/dowel bushings/dial indicator thing to check timing so I'll have to look into that I guess, but wouldn't me setting the timing at 4 degrees advance make up for any retardation at the cam?

 

[Blkvoodoo]

I did read the entire article Rich Posted, thats why I made the comment about TDC, I've never heard of using a degree wheel/dowel bushings/dial indicator thing to check timing so I'll have to look into that I guess, but wouldn't me setting the timing at 4 degrees advance make up for any retardation at the cam?

NO, Dizzy "ignitioin" timing and cam timing are different.

MOST vehicles in stock form have the cam retarded for emissions reasons. somewhere in the 2°-4° range, but then there are production variances during the manufacture process that can also allow a few degrees at the crank and or cam.

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=article&id=3

http://www.ridgenet.net/~biesiade/camdegree.htm

Think about how many MILLIONS of cranks and cams that are produced every year, you think they are all spot on ? Not a chance.

Damn near every vehicle on the road could benifit from " dialing in the cam"

Newer vehicles actually change cam timing on the fly, mostly for emmisions reasons, but better power is sometimes a side benifit.

 

[Ricky B]

NO, Dizzy "ignitioin" timing and cam timing are different.
MOST vehicles in stock form have the cam retarded for emissions reasons. somewhere in the 2°-4° range, but then there are production variances during the manufacture process that can also allow a few degrees at the crank and or cam.
http://www.cranecams.com/?show=article&id=3
http://www.ridgenet.net/~biesiade/camdegree.htm
Think about how many MILLIONS of cranks and cams that are produced every year, you think they are all spot on ? Not a chance.
Damn near every vehicle on the road could benifit from " dialing in the cam"
Newer vehicles actually change cam timing on the fly, mostly for emmisions reasons, but better power is sometimes a side benifit.

Cool, I'll check out those articles, might have to re degree the cam

If I were to do a compression test just to make sure what psi should I be looking for at each cylinder?

Also on the valve adjusting, does it sound like I did it right? I mean like I said I just looked at the lifters to see when they were all the way down and adjusted them at that point . . . .