XJ Cooling Upgrades - Radiator Questions

chris

chris

cltdba
Moderator
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Location
Concord, NC
Looking at two row and three row CSF radiators from radiatorbarn.com. Having troubles deciding which route to go.

Current Plan:
  • Upgrade to CSF 2/3 row radiator (mine is blown)
  • Remove clutch fan and bypass A/C
  • Install Ford Taurus electric fan
  • Rewire aux electric fan during install of Taurus fan
  • 180 degree thermostat (Stant Superstat)

Other possible upgrades:
  • Hood louvers, hood spacers on rear
  • Upgrade to high flow water pump
  • 92 XJ thermostat housing
From what I've read the 2 row flows and cools much better. Many recommend going that route over the 3 row. From my muscle car days I had always heard 3 row was better, but I'm not going very fast in the Jeep so the more airflow seems the more viable option. Does anyone have any preferences or more insight?

The other question I have is how do you know if you have an open or closed system? My XJ has a pressure cap, but doesn't have any overflow tanks. The prestone flush and fill adapter is also already installed. DPG Offroad offers open/closed system 3 row radiators so I need to make sure I'm getting the proper one. Or I could just go for the open system and do whatever upgrades I need to make it work. I still need to gather info on this, but hopefully someone here already has done so.


Radiator talk:
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=950483&highlight=radiator
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=941880&highlight=radiator
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=81138&highlight=radiator+water+pump

Taurus Fan:
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=950120&highlight=radiator
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=101865&highlight=radiator
 
I vote you do this :)


fan.jpg
 
Wire in the aux fan to a switch so you can control it.


Before we moved the rad to be back, our heating issues were due to the aux fan not turning on, and the t-stat being stuck.
 
I'm no expert, but learning...
I think the closed system had the pressure cap on the overflow bottle, so if yours in on the radiator, I'd say its open.

I bought a CSF 3-row from radiator barn. I called the 'contact us' link, pushed the # for tech help, and got bumped to the local warehouse. The guy confirmed he had what I wanted, advised me to purchase thru the internet rather than his shop prices, and he would deliver ASAP. I had my radiator within 2 hours.

I guess what I had before was a 2-row factory. Never had cooling issues, but after ECORS-DPG, I noticed significant leakage between the plastic side tank and core. It was swapped out as PM. Next race, I think it was OK, but didnt get as many laps as I would've liked to. I don't think my aux fan was kciking on either.
 
I got mine from 1800radiators.com. Mine is a high flow 2 core. Big difference between this and a regular 2 core. I chose the high flow 2 core that way it is less likely to get plugged with junk. Also the coolant will have a lower velocity and higher volume through the radiator, thus subjecting it to more opportunity for cooling.

Here is a picture of both. Again both are 2 core.

ai85.photobucket.com_albums_k51_hadfield4wd_My_20Jeep_Radiators.jpg


I think the hood louvers etc is a pain. I had them and got rid of them. Water on the TPS sucks.

Are you having cooling problems? Most stock systems will cool fine. Then there is a failure somewhere and people then complain they over heat. Then make upgrades that aren't necesarry.

Other than the rad everything on mine is stock. A 180 stat won't do anything for you. 4.0's are best if running at 210.
 
I do plan to wire the aux fan to a switch. I'll probably wire in an individual switch for each fan actually. My aux fan is kicking on and works, but I managed to overheat it to the point it cut off while at the flatts. At which point the plastic tanks also blew the seals. Probably have/had clogging issues, but since the damage is done I figured I'd do it right when I fix it.


What temps does your XJ get up to with the 3 row in now? (Racing vs trail riding) From what I've been reading the 2 row seems to be the way to go in the XJs since there's little to no breathing room. Radiatorbarn.com is where I planned to buy mine from.
 
hadfield4wd said:
I got mine from 1800radiators.com. Mine is a high flow 2 core. Big difference between this and a regular 2 core. I chose the high flow 2 core that way it is less likely to get plugged with junk. Also the coolant will have a lower velocity and higher volume through the radiator, thus subjecting it to more opportunity for cooling.

I think the hood louvers etc is a pain. I had them and got rid of them. Water on the TPS sucks.
Are you having cooling problems? Most stock systems will cool fine. Then there is a failure somewhere and people then complain they over heat. Then make upgrades that aren't necesarry.
Other than the rad everything on mine is stock. A 180 stat won't do anything for you. 4.0's are best if running at 210.
Click to expand...

Cooling problems started after armoring the underside. I don't think the stock system is sufficient for the amount of skinny pedal I use. It will stay at 210 while riding through the trails, but after 5 mins of hard use (rock crawling, wheel spin, etc) the temp shoots up. Probably had some clogging and ventilation issues. I have to replace the radiator now either way so I figure I might as well do the electric fan upgrade too. Most people I've read have gone back with the 180 t-stat which is why I decided to go with that. I thought it may be better if the system opens up earlier than 210. Could always try it and change it to the stock temp if need be.
 
I have 2 XJs. Stock-ish '99 on 31s, never gets above 210, even trailriding. The racerig ('95) was pretty steady @210 with the stock cooling system, roadtesting and I think racing, no trailriding done. I have limited time on it with the 3row CSF, but I think I saw it creeping towards 215 prerunning @ the flats. I really dont know if the aux fan was ever kicking in...I now have bypassed the PCM and put it on a switch. Hope to get some good fast test laps here in ~10days :driver:
 
cltdba said:
Cooling problems started after armoring the underside. I don't think the stock system is sufficient for the amount of skinny pedal I use. It will stay at 210 while riding through the trails, but after 5 mins of hard use (rock crawling, wheel spin, etc) the temp shoots up. Probably had some clogging and ventilation issues. I have to replace the radiator now either way so I figure I might as well do the electric fan upgrade too. Most people I've read have gone back with the 180 t-stat which is why I decided to go with that. I thought it may be better if the system opens up earlier than 210. Could always try it and change it to the stock temp if need be.
Click to expand...

stock t-stat should be 195...210 is just where XJs end up at, maybe thats what the aux fan is programmed to do.
 
What does bypassing the PCM do for you? I just replaced mine because I thought it was giving me power issues. Seems to have helped, but I still have moments where I have to cycle the engine in order to get my power back.
 
cltdba said:
What does bypassing the PCM do for you? I just replaced mine because I thought it was giving me power issues. Seems to have helped, but I still have moments where I have to cycle the engine in order to get my power back.
Click to expand...
maybe I wrote that kind of goofy. PCM controls when the aux fan kicks on/off due to engine temp data recieves, and/or if the AC is on or not. I cut the wire between the PCM and aux fan relay, then installed toggle switch so I can control the aux fan on/off.
 
I wired mine up so in the off switch the PCM controls the fan and then in the On position it powers the fan through a separate relay. Found the diagram on Naxja last year.

A 180 degree tstat isn't a good idea though I think. When your engine is over 195 it's not helping and when you don't need the extra cooling like on the highway your engine will be running colder then it was designed for. Could lead to sludge from not heating up the oil.
 
I don't drive it on he street. Strictly a trail rig. Always low speeds which is what kindve prompted the idea of the 180.

That's a good idea for wiring the aux fan. Think you can locate that diagram? Probably a double throw switch?
 
cltdba said:
Cooling problems started after armoring the underside. I don't think the stock system is sufficient for the amount of skinny pedal I use. It will stay at 210 while riding through the trails, but after 5 mins of hard use (rock crawling, wheel spin, etc) the temp shoots up. Probably had some clogging and ventilation issues. I have to replace the radiator now either way so I figure I might as well do the electric fan upgrade too. Most people I've read have gone back with the 180 t-stat which is why I decided to go with that. I thought it may be better if the system opens up earlier than 210. Could always try it and change it to the stock temp if need be.
Click to expand...

What year is your xj. The later years have the aux fan coming on earlier than the renix (closed system).

However I agree if you need a new rad go ahead and get the extra capacity.

As far as the t-stat goes open is open. Whether it opens at 180 or 195. Just gets it to temp faster. They both allow the same flow once open.

By the way my cools so well if I drive in the winter time I have to block part of the rad.

And I do no highway anymore. Mine is strictly trail. I beat on mine as hard as anybody. With no cooling problems unless I break a line or something like that.
 
Mine is a 1991. Thanks for all the info. I'm gonna go with a 2-row, probably the CSF since it's cheap enough and readily available. Reckon I'll stick with the stock tstat and I may wait on the Taurus fan. Definitely going to re-wire the aux fan.
 
I am having some cooling trouble in my 91 MJ right now. I just put on a new water pump due to bad bearings and now the thing wants to get pretty warm on me. Its operates at just over 210 when driving at 55 or under as long as I am moving. If I get on the interstate while running the AC it gets up to just beyond the mark between 210 and 260 (I am assuming 235-ish). It also starts to climb when sitting in traffic while the AC is on. The aux fan seems to be coming on properly and I checked the fan clutch, it seems to still be fairly tight. Its not leaking or anything, not sure what my plan of attack should be from here?? Could there possibly be an air bubble in the system? I guess the rad could be clogged but that dosent explain why it was fine b4. It is a manual so there is no tranny cooler to add heat to the system. The only other thing I was thinking, was that I got the truck with one of those K&N FPIK intakes on it, which is drawing air from under the hood. Could that raise the temps that much? It has that little isolator plate that is supposed to seal against the hood. One last thing...what is the "CSF" stand for you guys were talking about? Is that the brand? are they local?
thanks -J
 
Doesn't need to be double throw you just need to provide 12 volts to the fan. Simple switch though a relay will do.

http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2361116690035101547pvQgms

Thats how I wired mine up, When the switch is on the fan gets +12v from the relay, when the switch is off its computer controlled. I didn't add anything to prevent the +12 from coming back into the computer and nothing bad seems to have happened in the last year.

I choose to run the lead wire to the cab as negative rather then positive. No real reason though, either way is fine you just need to remotely activate the relay and you only need 1 wire to do that.
 
Well, to add my $.02, mine runs hotterer when running faster rpm's(and road speed) but is fine at idle(sitting still).. in fact if its hot, it cools off to like 215 at idle(sitting still). My other (mbrook's now) '91 cherokee never ran hot (stock cooling) even toting a trailer. Wondering if my radiator is internally gooped up, or if the water pump has worn blades(original from '93).. both mechanical and electric fan run all the time and the mechanical fan has been changed. engine ran at 210 (over a 90 mile drive) before I put it in, and the motor that came out ran at 210.. so i am just confused as to why now its running hot.
 
My wifes XJ just popped a head gasket so while Im in there I went ahead and ordered a new radiator and a new water pump. I got the radiator for 129.00 at Vatozone and paid 30 something for a NEW not remanned aluminum water pump. The radiator is a single core aluminum like the stock but when comparing the two it has twice as many fins. My old pump was severely cavitated on the inside and had a leak around the gasket. Im thinking this is where all my problems started....
 
Pulled the A/C components and radiator. Getting ready to install the 2-row now. Wiring looks accessible so I'm not going to bother with rewiring the aux fan until I get all of the other things fixed on the XJ. Don't want to run into any issues that might cause me to miss my Mtn City trip this weekend. :D
 
2 row Radiator is installed. Replaced the thermostat, housing and temperature sending unit. Changed the oil after the overheating episode. Ran it for 10 minutes and never reached 210. My fan shroud was trashed so I didn't put it back on. I still plan to switch to all electric fans, but can't get that done in time for Callalantee. So far so good. We shall see how it performs this weekend.
 
If it starts to heat up the first thing I would do is put a shroud back on. Glad it works good for you. I love callantee.
 
hadfield4wd said:
If it starts to heat up the first thing I would do is put a shroud back on. Glad it works good for you. I love callantee.
Click to expand...

x2, fan shrouds are super important.
 
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