Your thoughts on gauges...

Granny

Granny

One day at a time...
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Location
Cabarrus County (Rimertown)
I need some input and opinions from some of you diesel guys... and gals.

I have been burning up the web, during all these cold miserable days, searching and comparing notes on diesel gauges. For those who don't know, I have a '92 1st-gen Dodge/Cummins that is in very nice shape both inside and out. I am mentioning that because I have no intention of cutting or drilling holes in my dash area, and/or tearing up the interior. That said, here is what I have come up with, and presently I am considering the idea of mounting them on a small plastic console located on the hump over the transmission. Currently, I have three different options, but this one is the most economical, and would cause me the least amount of headaches as far as installing/locating them. Your thoughts, please.

Oh, and BTW I have read every review that I could find on the web so tell me your thoughts... I already know theirs. :)

http://www.glowshiftdirect.com/3in1...xhaust-Temperature-and-Temperature-Gauge.aspx

http://www.tinytach.com/tinytach/diesel.php
 
my opinion...I don't think I like that 3 in 1 gauge. I'm not a fan of digital displays, I like a needle sweeping across a range, so I can glance over and know approximately where I am, then if I really need to know, I can focus on the exact number.
Will you be able to read the digital display mounted down on the tranny tunnel?
Do you need a boost 0-60 psi boost gauge, or would 0-30 be better?
No fuel pressure gauge? I know its not required on the 1st gen Cummins, but its still nice to know. Right now, my FP gauge is telling me I've been very slack and really need to change the filter.
I have 2 ISSPRO gauges on my truck, boost and the rainbow pyro, then a cheap $12 water pressure gauge for FP, all mounted in an A-pillar pod. I had to hack up the factory A-pillar trim piece to fit it all. You look for another A-pillar trim piece, save your mint one for if you ever want to return the truck back to factory.
My previous diesel, I put the three gauges in a pod on the center of the dash. All it required was one ~1" in the center of the dash. I would consider that hacking, just had to add that. I really like it better over there, once in a while I hit my head on the A-pillar mounts.
 
With regards to the digital... I can't imagine the EGT temperature changing so fast that it can't be tracked on a digital readout. Unlike boost, it shouldn't be jumping that fast.

Would I be able to read the gauges down there? YES... I printed out a gauge (actual size) and put in the location I am considering... I can read it very well... same for the Tiny-Tach.

I agree a 0-30 boost gauge would probably be more suitable for my truck as I don't see any plans of major upgrades in the future, but the 0-60 would still serve the purpose.

I also would like a fuel pressure gauge, but electrical units are out of sight on price. If your mechanical springs a leak, I imagine you would quickly have a cab full of diesel fuel. I don't like that idea at all. I have thought about installing a gauge like you mentioned and just leaving it under the hood, but that isn't a concern right now..

Good points... ThanX for the reply! :)
 
Granny said:
With regards to the digital... I can't imagine the EGT temperature changing so fast that it can't be tracked on a digital readout. Unlike boost, it shouldn't be jumping that fast.

the pyro will definitely sweep faster than you think. IMHO, digital is only good for speedo readout and/or transmission gear selection.

Would I be able to read the gauges down there? YES... I printed out a gauge (actual size) and put in the location I am considering... I can read it very well... same for the Tiny-Tach.

it's one thing to be able to read a gauge in a chosen location, but it's another thing when you're in traffic pulling a load and have to constantly pull your eyes off the road to monitor EGT's and engine temp. I like the 'important' gauges within my normal line of sight for the factory cluster & viewing position in relation to the windshield

I agree a 0-30 boost gauge would probably be more suitable for my truck as I don't see any plans of major upgrades in the future, but the 0-60 would still serve the purpose.

0-30 will be best for factory boost levels as far as resolution goes, but yes, the 60 would work.

I also would like a fuel pressure gauge, but electrical units are out of sight on price. If your mechanical springs a leak, I imagine you would quickly have a cab full of diesel fuel. I don't like that idea at all. I have thought about installing a gauge like you mentioned and just leaving it under the hood, but that isn't a concern right now..

agreed

Good points... ThanX for the reply! :)
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I like gauges with needles, and dont like the combo gauges.
 
I don't like digital gauges and I also like having them up and close to my normal line of sight, but as for the glowshifts I have installed one set on a friends truck and he likes them he has em set to the green light to match the factory one and so far they have held up. I have seen alot of people with the isspro gauges and the ones I really like are the isspro ev2 gauges the way you wire them and plug the harness in the back is really nice but can be a pain to get the wires into the connector, and so far the fellas that I have installed the ev2 on their trucks haven't had any negative things to say. The ev2's can also be bought in a bout any configuration of light color, bezel color, face color, color of lettering, etc... that you want.
 
Don, IMO digital gauges are not as accurate or reliable as mechanical gauges. In my Kenworth I had 18 gauges across the dash! Most were mechanical and all were analog except the alarm clock gauge in the sleeper. One quick sweep of the needles was enough to let me know what was going on. I'm with renegade t on this. Another thing is EGT or Pyrometer does change a lot! Hold your hand in front of the tail pipe and ask Darlene to throttle up! Another thing, the last place I would put a gauge is in the floor or hump. They make gauge cups and with a little thought could be mounted in a safer place without defacing your interior. Manifold pressure, EGT and oil pressure is all you need unless you have a slushbox (auto). Autometer has a great assortment of all the gauges you need with a great reliability and many to choose from. On the EGT, try and find a 2 5/8 ths size, you won't regret this. Heat is a killer of turbos and it will surprise you at the way it fluctuates!
 
Granny said:
With regards to the digital... I can't imagine the EGT temperature changing so fast that it can't be tracked on a digital readout. Unlike boost, it shouldn't be jumping that fast.
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my Pyro gauge can go from 600 to 1200 on a hill before you can blink :) if I am in wrong gear with a heavy load..
 
BRUISER said:
my Pyro gauge can go from 600 to 1200 on a hill before you can blink :) if I am in wrong gear with a heavy load..
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Is that all you need to play the the screw under the hood some more. J/k .



I personally like the analog guages better and have found them to be more accurate, I have 3 on the pillar in a autometer guage pod because I don't like having to look down in the floor to read guages, not a good practice if around alot of traffic towing. I just removed the factory pillar and put it in storage so not to mess it up and used the autometer and it looks factory. As far as the Egt guage it moves alot and boost sweeps pretty rapidly as well and even faster if you are like me and turn things up. As far as a 0-60psi boost guage I would recommend staying that size since a 0-30 just covers pretty much a stock truck if you do anything at all you will be maxing out the guage, trust me I first bought a 0-35psi and had to buy another larger range. Some of the mechanical guages use a isolater not to have diesel coming in the cab but they come with there own set of complaints some vaild and some not. I went with autometer guages just because I had a local source for them and have been happy with them for the last 5 years but have alot of friends that use isspro without problems as well if looking for something analog as well.
 
WOW... I asked for opinions, I got opinions... thanks to all! :)

This is definitly a learning experience for me. My first conclusion is that digital gauges are out, no more questions on that. After watching Hurley's video, I am convinced! I had no idea the EGT could/would climb that fast, and it definitly confirms Bruiser's reply.

I always wondered what made THDG the way he is. Now I know... he's been watching those 18 gauges while cooking hot dogs! All BS aside though, I just got off the phone with Geno's Garage in Atlanta and the fellow I talked to basically quoted what Terry said... EGT and Boost are all I really need for a near-stock truck. I do have a automatic trans so I do agree a temperature gauge would be a good thing. As far as engine temp and oil pressure go, I recently sent my factory gauge pod into Southern Electronics for an odometer rebuild and a full calibration of all the gauges. They verified it as accurate and it should work well for those concerns.

I mentioned in my original post that I had three options. Clearly the first has been pretty well hammered out of existance. That said, here is option #2 (no links this time):

Auto Meter Boost Gauge (0-35 psi)
Auto Meter Pyrometer (0°-1600°)
Auto Meter Trans-temp (100°-250°)

These would most likely be installed in a 3-gauge universal pod, and I have yet to figure out exactly where to put them. Again, cutting up the interior is not an option.

And... again thanks to all! :)
 
Mounting is going to come down to a matter of preference so I'm not going to pretend to have anything to offer there, other than this. If you mount them out of your line of sight, you will end up never checking them. So why install them unless it is for diagnosing a problem.

Digital gauges are every bit as accurate as analog, but they cost more. If you are comparing equal priced gauges the analogs will be more precise typically. But I have a digital pyro we run on our 60L engines that is acurate to 1/100th of a degree and has a response time measured in milliseconds. But I doubt you wnat a $2,500 gauge.

Trans temp is certainly important, I wouldn't put in gauges and not have a trans pyro.

Finally this may be common ense but I've seen it lost on many foks.
On mechanical needle sweep gauges, for a given size of gauge, the smaller the range the more precise the measurement within that range. So if 0-30 is all you need stay there. It is a lot easier to differentiate 15 and 20 psi when that change is 1/6th the total movment than when it is 1/12 the total range of movement of the needle.

For the sake of everyone else on the road, I would aks that you not mount gauges that you plan to look at on the trans hump. At 60 mph you are traveling over 100 fps. If you ook away for a half second total bad things can happen. Assuming the only time these numbers would be uber relevant is when you are towing, and that compouns the problem....just my two cents worth
 
then you get to decide if you're gonna put the trans temp sender in the trans. pan, or in the line coming out of the trans to the cooler.. more decisions!

Also, (this comes from my aviation & race stuff background) when you mount the gauges, orient them to where 12:00 is the limit of safe operating range. That way, when doing a quick scan, you don't need to READ the gauge.. you just know as long as the needle is to the left of straight up, you're good. it worked out that the trans temp was OK in its normal orientation as was boost.. but you can see the pyro was set so that 1250-1300° was vertical..

akeystoneriders.com_rich_ctd_gaugepod1.jpg
 
Good point Rich(no pun intended), Back in the 80's Ford did their road tracters that way but then used all electrical gauges. Nothing worked right very long! Auto Meter custom makes the gauges for some of the high end Motorcoaches but doesen't brand them on the front for cosmetic reasons, but are labeled on the back. If you drill for the probe for Pyro temp. be careful and make sure you are getting the right advice on before or after the turbo.
 
I'm pretty much one of those who can't argue with common-sense so, Ron, you hit me pretty hard on the subject of location... I won't mount them on the hump. :driver:

Hey Rich, "Asshole at large"... don't know how you came up with that... I always sorta like you. :flipoff2: Your gauge mounting looks nice. Unfortunately, the options for my old truck are next to non-existant. As far as the transmission sender goes, right now I am looking at this which I can very easily make out of aluminum.

http://www.dieselpowerproducts.com/...mission-temperature-adapter-for-12-lines.aspx

If I am understanding everything I have read correctly the best location for the Pyro probe is exactly as shown in the following link... before the turbo so you know you're not burning it up.

http://www.pdrdiesel.com/oldsite/TechPyroInstall.htm

I finally got out to the truck today and did some figuring and measuring and I think/hope I have found a solution. If this works out the way I am hoping it will, I'll go whole-hog with: boost, fuel-pressure, pyro, trans-temp, and tach.

I'm going to make up a cardboard prototype and see what it looks like, before I do any celebrating, but the idea seems sound. More later, and again, thanks to all! :)
 
my .02 on sender/tap locations:

pyro - pre-turbo, in a central location
boost - as close to (or in) the intake manifold 'trough' as possible
trans - pressurized outlet port from trans to cooler
 
Chris, some of the DTR guys say those pods are not angled right. One fellow said he was over 6' tall and had to sit up to see them. At 5'6", I don't think it would work out too well for me. :)
 
I've always felt that way about the pillar gauges. I'll be installing some gauges in my tow rig sometime this year as well. Hoping to find a way to mount them on or in the dash without having to cut myself. :)

BTW, can't wait till wheel with ya again. Let's wait till it's warmer though! :D
 
Fuel pressure can remain outside in front of the windshield in a pod. Never drove a truck with a fuel pressure gauge in 5 million miles! I can tell when the filter is dirty.
 
cltdba said:
I've always felt that way about the pillar gauges. I'll be installing some gauges in my tow rig sometime this year as well. Hoping to find a way to mount them on or in the dash without having to cut myself. :)
BTW, can't wait till wheel with ya again. Let's wait till it's warmer though! :D
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Chris,

Your truck should have a small cubby just below the radio for wallet, glasses, remote, etc. I think autometer makes a pod for that area. That's what I will most likely go with also.
 
Granny said:
^^^ John, what do you think about what I've gotten myself into since I talked to you! :confused: :lol:
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If you're like me, you are probably excited for now knowing exactly what you want and will be waiting at the door with your tongue out like a puppy for the UPS man to come.

I also plan on putting gauges on my truck sometime this summer. They're on the never ending list!
 
This post takes me back to my original idea for gauges, which I never posted. I strayed away from it mainly due to not being able to figure out where to put them all.

Here's what I have finally come up with in regards to location. My truck has an overhead storage tray located about where the factory visors fastened on, just slightly below the windshield line. Whether or not the tray was a factory option, I have no idea, but it matches the interior perfectly. Since I use this tray very little it jumped out as a perfect solution to the gauge location problem.

The picture makes things look somewhat out of proportion, but the gauges (2-1/16") are about 15" from my face at an angle from center probably less than what the factory dash gauges are. It's a comfortable line, easy to read, and my eyes are no further from the line-of-sight than reading the speedometer, fuel or temperature gauges. The prototype is simply a piece of cardboard with pictures of the gauges pasted on. Tweety Bird is a classic interior decoration donated to me by my wife, so unless you want to be slapped down by a 5'1" lady, keep your comments to yourself. :lol:

I am almost certain I will be able to group the gauges closer together once I get them and can do some accurate measuring, and they will most likely be brought down closer to the edge of the tray.

Opinions... please! :)
 

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This issue is solved for me, at least for now... I called Geno's Garage this morning and told them about my truck, and what I had in mind. It was their opinion that a fuel gauge is not a real necessity on this model truck, and as I have been driving the truck just fine for 6-7 years now without a tachometer... do I really need one?

Thus, using their recommendations, I ordered a set of Auto Meter gauges consisting of: Boost 0-35 psi, Pyrometer 0°-1600°, and Trans-Temp 100°-250°. Hopefully, some day the weather will warm up again so I can install them. Thanks to all who replied!
 
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