03 Ford 5.4 fuel pressure

[Fabrik8]

...but bank 2 long term fuel trim was like -45

It was -45 and not +45? Please double check that, that's the exact opposite of what it should be for most problems that would cause a lean condition.

Generally speaking, if the ECM is detecting a lean condition, it will add fuel to try and correct the lean condition, so the long term trim would be a high positive number instead of the normal narrow range (maybe +/-10% or whatever). A high negative number (along with the lean bank code) would mean that the ECM is detecting a lean condition, but is somehow trying to reduce a lot of fuel to compensate, which doesn't make logical sense that I can see.

 

[Croatan_Kid]

Wouldn't both banks being lean point towards something like intake gaskets? Lean conditions can cause misfires too.

 

[marty79]

It was -45 and not +45? Please double check that, that's the exact opposite of what it should be for most problems that would cause a lean condition.

Generally speaking, if the ECM is detecting a lean condition, it will add fuel to try and correct the lean condition, so the long term trim would be a high positive number instead of the normal narrow range (maybe +/-10% or whatever). A high negative number (along with the lean bank code) would mean that the ECM is detecting a lean condition, but is somehow trying to reduce a lot of fuel to compensate, which doesn't make logical sense that I can see.

I will double check tomorrow, thank you

 

[Fabrik8]

Wouldn't both banks being lean point towards something like intake gaskets?

Yep. Could be, but maybe has problems in too small of a range of operation to make me put it at the top of the list of suspects. Ugh, awkward sentence, sorry.

 

[marty79]

Thank you gentlemen so much for all your help.
Thought it might help to mention the weekend of the flats ride towing 8000lbs, it towed fine, gas mileage was still descent and only noticed stumbling when taking off or pulling slight hills otherwise pulled pretty good. (That trailer weighs 3k alone that I borrowed) so I'm not sure if that helps with severity of issue.
I've weeded out intake gasket as I Liberally sprayed a whole can while running and no change.
I notice vacuum lines operate front hubs?? for whatever reason by solenoids so maybe there's a leak there sometimes?? Was reading this can be an issue on the Ford's 4x4 system and plugging those for test purpose can help..anyone think this could be culprit

 

[Fabrik8]

Thank you gentlemen so much for all your help.
Thought it might help to mention the weekend of the flats ride towing 8000lbs, it towed fine, gas mileage was still descent and only noticed stumbling when taking off or pulling slight hills otherwise pulled pretty good. (That trailer weighs 3k alone that I borrowed) so I'm not sure if that helps with severity of issue.
I've weeded out intake gasket as I Liberally sprayed a whole can while running and no change.
I notice vacuum lines operate front hubs?? for whatever reason by solenoids so maybe there's a leak there sometimes?? Was reading this can be an issue on the Ford's 4x4 system and plugging those for test purpose can help..anyone think this could be culprit

Clean the MAF tomorrow, then report back.

 

[marty79]

Clean the MAF tomorrow, then report back.

Does it need to be the MAF specific cleaner or will TB cleaner/brake clean work

 

[Fabrik8]

Get some MAF cleaner. It's gentle enough to not damage the sensor. Get a can and stick it on the shelf, because you should periodically inspect/clean the MAF as routine maintenance every time you change the air filter (it's easy to remember to do it at the same time).

 

[marty79]

Didn't have time today for anything but this yj I'm working on so I just took a picture of freeze frame of both banks lean then the 2nd set of pictures is live data while running and engine hot. Got the MAF spray but haven't had time. Thanks again very much.

 

[a_kelley]

In addition to cleaning the MAF, check the baro hz reading to make sure it's correct for your attitude. I've seen them report 9000' elevation.. way to lean at that altitude

 

[justjeepin86]

So when you say new coils, are they the set of 8 for $80 off ebay? Or are they a quality set. I say your hesitation under light throttle is coil pack related. Been there, done that for over 10 years with my 03 Expy. They never throw a code unless they are completely dead.

 

[a_kelley]

A good scanner will do a misfire graph. Indispensable feature. I love my autel maxisys pro elite.

 

[marty79]

So when you say new coils, are they the set of 8 for $80 off ebay? Or are they a quality set. I say your hesitation under light throttle is coil pack related. Been there, done that for over 10 years with my 03 Expy. They never throw a code unless they are completely dead.

While I do agree, several Ford's with this 5.4 I've owned and I've gotten to learn when a coil acts up and this isn't it (pretty sure unless it's just a new to me way). It's way too random and such to be a coil in the usual cases but I have the original 8 motorcraft that are still good keep em in the car.
Cleaned the MAF few minutes ago and see what she does to work in the am.
I'm really starting to think the TPS (it's how a Jeep acts when TPS gets weary).
Will report tomorrow, thanks y'all.

 

[Fabrik8]

While I do agree, several Ford's with this 5.4 I've owned and I've gotten to learn when a coil acts up and this isn't it (pretty sure unless it's just a new to me way). It's way too random and such to be a coil in the usual cases but I have the original 8 motorcraft that are still good keep em in the car.
Cleaned the MAF few minutes ago and see what she does to work in the am.
I'm really starting to think the TPS (it's how a Jeep acts when TPS gets weary).
Will report tomorrow, thanks y'all.

If it's an older style TPS that uses a contacting wiper instead of the newer non-contacting style, the wiper can get a worn spot in it where it spends most of its time, which is usually at a fairly low throttle position for most cars.

 

[marty79]

If it's an older style TPS that uses a contacting wiper instead of the newer non-contacting style, the wiper can get a worn spot in it where it spends most of its time, which is usually at a fairly low throttle position for most cars.

It's gotta be it, no change this morning on way to work. They're 32bucks so won't hurt. Even resetting the ECU doesn't change anything,

 

[marty79]

New TPS seem to help it overall driving but there was still some stumbling on the way to work .
Anyone in the area can recommend someone who has live data, a legit scanner that I could trust to diagnose this thing.

 

[NCJeeplover]

Minton's automotive is just around the corner from Bud's. They know the ford mod motors well.

 

[Jody Treadway]

Did anybody mention coils?

 

[palmetto zuk]

When is op gonna put some cats on this thing so it will be fixed.

Im kidding however it was the first thing that popped in my mind. Gonna read the tread now and see if i can actually give good input.

 

[justjeepin86]

Did anybody mention coils?

Yeah, but those new Chinese ones are perfect. I'd bet anything it's a coil.

 

[palmetto zuk]

Alright i come bearing information of your 2 lean codes from All Data Pro.

H40 DTCS P0171, P0174, P1130, P1131, P1150, P1151, P2195 OR P2197: LEAN SYSTEM DTCS

Note: Do not clear the DTCs or reset the keep alive memory (KAM).
Fuel System and HO2S DTC Reference List:

• Bank 1 = DTC P0171 (lean)
• Bank 2 = DTC P0174 (lean)
• HO2S-11 = DTCs P1130, P1131, and P2195
• HO2S-21 = DTCs P1150, P1151, and P2197
• Access and record the ECT PID from the freeze frame data. The freeze frame data will be used to recreate the concern.
• Retrieve and record the self-test DTCs.

Are any DTCs present other than P0171, P0174, P1130, P1131, P1150, P1151, P2195 or P2197?
Yes

• DISREGARD the current diagnostic trouble code (DTC) at this time. GO to Section 4, Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Charts See: A L L Diagnostic Trouble Codes ( DTC )\Testing and Inspection\Diagnostic Trouble Code Descriptions\Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Charts and REPAIR the other DTCs.

No

• GO to H41

.

H41 CARRY OUT A VISUAL INSPECTION OF THE INTAKE AIR SYSTEM AND ALL VACUUM HOSES

• Check the intake air system for leaks, obstructions, and damage.
• Inspect the entire length of all the vacuum hoses for:
• proper connections.
• damage or cracks.
• damaged or cracked vacuum tees.
• Verify the integrity of the positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) system.
• Verify the proper PCV valve part number.

Is a concern present?
Yes

• GO to H44

.

No

• GO to H42

.

H42 CHECK FOR THE PRESENCE OF A VACUUM LEAK

Note: Fuel trim values at idle are more sensitive to a vacuum leak. The vacuum leak (unmetered air) represents a larger portion of the total air flow at idle than at part throttle.
Note: The barometric pressure (BARO) PID is not a recommended PID to monitor when diagnosing a vacuum leak. Barometric pressure is calculated during high engine load, when the vacuum leak represents a small portion of the total air flow.
Note: As an example, when calculating the total fuel correction in the following steps, if LONGFT1 = +13% and SHRTFT1 = +23%, the total fuel correction for bank 1 = +36%, also if LONGFT2 = +24% and SHRTFT2 = -3% the total fuel correction for bank 2 = +21%.
Note: If the freeze frame ECT PID is available, stabilize the engine at the temperature recorded by the freeze frame ECT PID. If the freeze frame ECT PID is not available, maintain the engine coolant temperature between 82°C - 101°C (180°F - 215°F) and the intake air temperature less than 46°C (115°F).

• Key on, engine running.
• Access and monitor the ECT or CHT, IAT, LONGFT1, SHRTFT1, LONGFT2 and SHRTFT2 PIDs.
• Allow the engine to stabilize at the temperature necessary to recreate the concern.
• Add and record the LONGFT PID value to the SHRTFT PID value for each bank, for a total fuel correction at idle.
• Increase the engine speed to 2500 rpm for 10 seconds.
• Record the LONGFT1, SHRTFT1, LONGFT2, and SHRTFT2 PID values.
• Add and record the LONGFT PID value to the SHRTFT PID value for each bank, for a total fuel correction at 2500 rpm.

Is the total fuel correction value change, between idle and 2500 rpm, less than 15 percent?
Yes

• No vacuum leak is present.
• GO to H47

.

No

• GO to H43

.

H43 LOCATE THE VACUUM LEAK

CAUTION: Do not clamp or pinch a hard plastic hose. Use a vacuum cap or equivalent to restrict the hose.
Note: Restricting the EVAP vapor hose while the EVAP emission canister is purging may shift the SHRTFT. Carry out a visual inspection as necessary.
Note: As an example, when monitoring for a decrease in the SHRTFT PIDs in the following steps, if SHRTFT1 is +15%, but when the hose is restricted SHRTFT1 decrease to -7%, the decrease in the SHRTFT PIDs = 22 percent.

• Locate the vacuum tees for the intake air and PCV systems.
• Access and monitor the SHRTFT1 and SHRTFT2 PIDs.
• Restrict the vacuum lines one at a time for 30 seconds. If a vacuum leak is present, the SHRTFT PID values will decrease as the hose is restricted.

Is the decrease in the SHRTFT PIDs greater than 15 percent when one of the vacuum hoses is restricted?
Yes

• GO to H44

.

No

• INSPECT the intake air system for a vacuum leak in the intake manifold or intake gaskets. REPAIR as necessary.
• For repair verification, GO to H44

.

H44 VACUUM LEAK REPAIR VERIFICATION

Note: If the freeze frame ECT PID is available, stabilize the engine at the temperature recorded by the freeze frame ECT PID. If the freeze frame ECT PID is not available, maintain the engine coolant temperature between 82°C - 101°C (180°F - 215°F) and the intake air temperature less than 46°C (115°F).

• Access and monitor the SHRTFT1 and SHRTFT2 PIDs.
• Allow the engine to stabilize at the temperature necessary to recreate the concern.
• Record the SHRTFT1 and SHRTFT2 PID values.
• Key off.
• Repair the vacuum leak.
• Key on, engine running.
• Allow the engine to stabilize at the temperature necessary to recreate the concern.
• Access and monitor the SHRTFT1 and SHRTFT2 PIDs.
• Compare the recorded SHRTFT PID values, prior to the vacuum leak repair, to the current SHRTFT PID values.

Is the decrease in the SHRTFT PIDs greater than 15 percent?
Yes

• Fault found.
• RESET the keep alive memory (KAM). REFER to Section 2, Resetting The Keep Alive Memory (KAM) See: Diagnostic Trouble Code Tests and Associated Procedures\SECTION 2: Diagnostic Methods\Resetting The Keep Alive Memory (KAM).

No

• A vacuum leak is still present, GO to H43

 

[justjeepin86]

A good scanner will do a misfire graph. Indispensable feature. I love my autel maxisys pro elite.

Ok, I have a question here. Several years ago before I figured mine out, I had mine at 2 different shops that couldn't tell me what coil was bad without an engine light. The only place that could tell me was Ford. Will yours do a 5.4?

 

[a_kelley]

Yes sure will. I'd say bring it by my shop but it's a long ride from w-s.

 

[marty79]

Minton's automotive is just around the corner from Bud's. They know the ford mod motors well.

Thank you I'll check him out.

Did anybody mention coils?

It was, if I knew how to go about testing a coil for a random skip I would but it's so random when it acts up that I've been suspecting elsewhere. Several of these I've had show true sign all the time when coil goes bad.

 

[marty79]

Alright i come bearing information of your 2 lean codes from All Data Pro.

H40 DTCS P0171, P0174, P1130, P1131, P1150, P1151, P2195 OR P2197: LEAN SYSTEM DTCS

Note: Do not clear the DTCs or reset the keep alive memory (KAM).
Fuel System and HO2S DTC Reference List:

• Bank 1 = DTC P0171 (lean)
• Bank 2 = DTC P0174 (lean)
• HO2S-11 = DTCs P1130, P1131, and P2195
• HO2S-21 = DTCs P1150, P1151, and P2197
• Access and record the ECT PID from the freeze frame data. The freeze frame data will be used to recreate the concern.
• Retrieve and record the self-test DTCs.

Are any DTCs present other than P0171, P0174, P1130, P1131, P1150, P1151, P2195 or P2197?
Yes

• DISREGARD the current diagnostic trouble code (DTC) at this time. GO to Section 4, Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Charts See: A L L Diagnostic Trouble Codes ( DTC )\Testing and Inspection\Diagnostic Trouble Code Descriptions\Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Charts and REPAIR the other DTCs.

No

• GO to H41

.

H41 CARRY OUT A VISUAL INSPECTION OF THE INTAKE AIR SYSTEM AND ALL VACUUM HOSES

• Check the intake air system for leaks, obstructions, and damage.
• Inspect the entire length of all the vacuum hoses for:
• proper connections.
• damage or cracks.
• damaged or cracked vacuum tees.
• Verify the integrity of the positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) system.
• Verify the proper PCV valve part number.

Is a concern present?
Yes

• GO to H44

.

No

• GO to H42

.

H42 CHECK FOR THE PRESENCE OF A VACUUM LEAK

Note: Fuel trim values at idle are more sensitive to a vacuum leak. The vacuum leak (unmetered air) represents a larger portion of the total air flow at idle than at part throttle.
Note: The barometric pressure (BARO) PID is not a recommended PID to monitor when diagnosing a vacuum leak. Barometric pressure is calculated during high engine load, when the vacuum leak represents a small portion of the total air flow.
Note: As an example, when calculating the total fuel correction in the following steps, if LONGFT1 = +13% and SHRTFT1 = +23%, the total fuel correction for bank 1 = +36%, also if LONGFT2 = +24% and SHRTFT2 = -3% the total fuel correction for bank 2 = +21%.
Note: If the freeze frame ECT PID is available, stabilize the engine at the temperature recorded by the freeze frame ECT PID. If the freeze frame ECT PID is not available, maintain the engine coolant temperature between 82°C - 101°C (180°F - 215°F) and the intake air temperature less than 46°C (115°F).

• Key on, engine running.
• Access and monitor the ECT or CHT, IAT, LONGFT1, SHRTFT1, LONGFT2 and SHRTFT2 PIDs.
• Allow the engine to stabilize at the temperature necessary to recreate the concern.
• Add and record the LONGFT PID value to the SHRTFT PID value for each bank, for a total fuel correction at idle.
• Increase the engine speed to 2500 rpm for 10 seconds.
• Record the LONGFT1, SHRTFT1, LONGFT2, and SHRTFT2 PID values.
• Add and record the LONGFT PID value to the SHRTFT PID value for each bank, for a total fuel correction at 2500 rpm.

Is the total fuel correction value change, between idle and 2500 rpm, less than 15 percent?
Yes

• No vacuum leak is present.
• GO to H47

.

No

• GO to H43

.

H43 LOCATE THE VACUUM LEAK

CAUTION: Do not clamp or pinch a hard plastic hose. Use a vacuum cap or equivalent to restrict the hose.
Note: Restricting the EVAP vapor hose while the EVAP emission canister is purging may shift the SHRTFT. Carry out a visual inspection as necessary.
Note: As an example, when monitoring for a decrease in the SHRTFT PIDs in the following steps, if SHRTFT1 is +15%, but when the hose is restricted SHRTFT1 decrease to -7%, the decrease in the SHRTFT PIDs = 22 percent.

• Locate the vacuum tees for the intake air and PCV systems.
• Access and monitor the SHRTFT1 and SHRTFT2 PIDs.
• Restrict the vacuum lines one at a time for 30 seconds. If a vacuum leak is present, the SHRTFT PID values will decrease as the hose is restricted.

Is the decrease in the SHRTFT PIDs greater than 15 percent when one of the vacuum hoses is restricted?
Yes

• GO to H44

.

No

• INSPECT the intake air system for a vacuum leak in the intake manifold or intake gaskets. REPAIR as necessary.
• For repair verification, GO to H44

.

H44 VACUUM LEAK REPAIR VERIFICATION

Note: If the freeze frame ECT PID is available, stabilize the engine at the temperature recorded by the freeze frame ECT PID. If the freeze frame ECT PID is not available, maintain the engine coolant temperature between 82°C - 101°C (180°F - 215°F) and the intake air temperature less than 46°C (115°F).

• Access and monitor the SHRTFT1 and SHRTFT2 PIDs.
• Allow the engine to stabilize at the temperature necessary to recreate the concern.
• Record the SHRTFT1 and SHRTFT2 PID values.
• Key off.
• Repair the vacuum leak.
• Key on, engine running.
• Allow the engine to stabilize at the temperature necessary to recreate the concern.
• Access and monitor the SHRTFT1 and SHRTFT2 PIDs.
• Compare the recorded SHRTFT PID values, prior to the vacuum leak repair, to the current SHRTFT PID values.

Is the decrease in the SHRTFT PIDs greater than 15 percent?
Yes

• Fault found.
• RESET the keep alive memory (KAM). REFER to Section 2, Resetting The Keep Alive Memory (KAM) See: Diagnostic Trouble Code Tests and Associated Procedures\SECTION 2: Diagnostic Methods\Resetting The Keep Alive Memory (KAM).

No

• A vacuum leak is still present, GO to H43

Holy gazucers Batman, lol. I will try and follow this even though I'm so lost just from reading it but thank you and see what I come up with