Let the hate flow…but I’m a huge fan

Ev's are gaining ground. I find it ironic and slightly irritating that their marketing hype is mostly based on "green". Considering the majority of electric power generation in the states is literally fueled by burning something the ev "eco footprint" is likely worse than my diesel truck. By time the coal ash or LNG is harvested from the ground, transported, refined a few times, burned and then that heat is turned into electricity which has to be stepped down, and converted dozens of time before you plug in your big boy power wheels - I suspect the energy efficiency is down in the single digits. Not to mention battery materials and fab methods don't exactly come from rainbows and unicorns poop either.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not in the least concerned about my carbon footprint or any of that granola crunching mythology. And I can appreciate the science and engineering put into these high performance low production vehicles. Just call them what they are and stop broadcasting lies about saving the planet with battery acid.

Ok I feel better. Carry on and buy electric cuz I need all your fuel
 
shawn said:
Where are they going to get the electricity?
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This is the great leap along with battery tech/recycling that will need to happen. I am not an oil doomer, I think there is plenty of time to figure out what’s next …. but it does have to be figured out. The supply is finite.

I feel there will be a leap in solar tech, Musk is working on that too. Nobody believed landing rockets was feasible but now other foreign companies want sanctions against Space X because they are unable to compete. He’s not anything if not ambitious and seems to get it right more often than not.

Hydrogen doesn’t seem to be feasible yet. Other fuels like alcohol are very bad for the environment to produce and take valuable farmland to make.

Hell it might all be moot if the killervirusspikeproteindeltadawn kills off most of the population and I’m riding horses to go barter for fresh possum fat and elderberry preserves.
 
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As a side note, the news this morning was talking about the heat and corresponding electrical demand out west. Apparently electric lines/components are melting.
 
UTfball68 said:
My only knock(s) on EV's will forever and always be charging times and charging locations. Where I travel, I'm not sure I've ever seen stations (but I believe they are/can be programmed in to the GPS). The amount of anxiety I got from the recent gas shortage while 400miles away from home with 3/4 of tank, I'm not willing to do that on every long trip I take. Well why don't I just plot my trip around charging stations...valid question...length of time to charge. I'm pretty sure I saw even rapid charging from 0-100% is 40 minutes, fast and slow charging are 6-33hrs (depending on model). That doesn't really make it convenient, I'd either be stopping every time I hit 75% for the same 10min stop I take at gas stations, or I'm waiting and trying to entertain kids. If I could get 10-12hrs of drive time at 80-90mph, I wouldn't hesitate. Or if I lived in or just bought a commuter to Charlotte, I'd probably be a lot more inclined. At this stage in life, it just doesn't seem to fit my driving style/environment.
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the ford lightning is pretty appealing to me, i live close to work BUT i want to be able to get in the same vehicle and go down east or pull my boat to the lake because its still a truck and the extended range of 340 miles or so is probably on flat ground with no weight behind it. i dont wanna test how far i can go down the road pulling a boat into no mans land with no phone service
 
Loganwayne said:
the ford lightning is pretty appealing to me, i live close to work BUT i want to be able to get in the same vehicle and go down east or pull my boat to the lake because its still a truck and the extended range of 340 miles or so is probably on flat ground with no weight behind it. i dont wanna test how far i can go down the road pulling a boat into no mans land with no phone service
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People are claiming the 300 range is with 1,000 payload still not a ton of weight though. The Ford F-150 Lightning's Range Could Be a Lot Better Than We Think: Report
 
ponykilr said:
I feel there will be a leap in solar tech
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Like 1979?

Solar is great in states with consistent sun. The southeast has more overcast days than sunny days. We've BEEN thru this exercise and circle back to it every decade or so. 12 years ago photovoltaic was all the new hotness here in NC. And people learned AGAIN the hard way we simply do not have enough sun days to make it work.

I'm not someone simply talking out their asses about this. We have solar reps come thru every year presenting new and exciting tech...but can't combat the simple data of days per year needed to make it viable for payback in less than 20yr time frame. Which..if you're a privately traded company looking for LEED and green points to attract "progressive" dollars...go for it. But my client base is either public traded, or public funds. And long term payback and up front initial costs are paramount. Even WITH Duke powers rebates.
 
What about the ability for 3rd party repair shops to fix your vehicle. That would be a big one for me, i can stop by an orielys or mom and pop shop while on vacation and get what i need to do simple repairs.
If it was a tesla you would have to tow back to what 2 dealers in NC or if a Ford would they even have the ability to get the correct part overnight? Right now they can barely order and have the correct parts for a simple scheduled recall. Drop it off and i get. Let me see if we have all the parts instock. Im like it was a scheduled recall....
 
CasterTroy said:
Like 1979?

Solar is great in states with consistent sun. The southeast has more overcast days than sunny days. We've BEEN thru this exercise and circle back to it every decade or so. 12 years ago photovoltaic was all the new hotness here in NC. And people learned AGAIN the hard way we simply do not have enough sun days to make it work.

I'm not someone simply talking out their asses about this. We have solar reps come thru every year presenting new and exciting tech...but can't combat the simple data of days per year needed to make it viable for payback in less than 20yr time frame. Which..if you're a privately traded company looking for LEED and green points to attract "progressive" dollars...go for it. But my client base is either public traded, or public funds. And long term payback and up front initial costs are paramount. Even WITH Duke powers rebates.
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I don’t disagree. To me, discounting some new alien energy tech, nothing else is presenting itself as a viable replacement for burning fuel.

Nuclear is an obvious way to generate a lot of power but as we’ve seen is not without serious risks. I wouldn’t want to live close to a nuke plant.

Looking long (really long) term, I’m not seeing a clear winner, only “maybes”.

One day we’ll be sitting around a fire telling the young ones about electricity and airplanes and they’ll think we’re joshing them (tinfoil hat is comfortable)

In seriousness, knowing fossil fuel is finite and making fuel is not at all viable with current tech or resources, what is left except solar and nuclear?
 
ponykilr said:
In seriousness, knowing fossil fuel is finite and making fuel is not at all viable with current tech or resources, what is left except solar and nuclear?
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Hydrogen
 
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83oldyoda4x4 said:
What about the ability for 3rd party repair shops to fix your vehicle. That would be a big one for me, i can stop by an orielys or mom and pop shop while on vacation and get what i need to do simple repairs.
If it was a tesla you would have to tow back to what 2 dealers in NC or if a Ford would they even have the ability to get the correct part overnight? Right now they can barely order and have the correct parts for a simple scheduled recall. Drop it off and i get. Let me see if we have all the parts instock. Im like it was a scheduled recall....
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This falls in the same line as infrastructure. If EVs become mainstream, I'll bet we start seeing 3rd party repair shops and parts manufacturing for popular models.

As for the true energy footprint, there is no denying that the efficiency of central power production is greatly reduced as it goes through the transport process that @Clubbs mentioned.

The whole Green movement is powered by a bunch of NIMBY logic. These folks love wind power until you put enough turbines on their beautiful ridge or coast line to be effective.
 
DSM Turbos said:
People are claiming the 300 range is with 1,000 payload still not a ton of weight though. The Ford F-150 Lightning's Range Could Be a Lot Better Than We Think: Report
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That's a very optimistic article. Somehow they went from 300 miles to 460 miles by removing 1000lbs of payload. That may work for a Nissan Leaf, but not a full size truck. Any typical truck with 2 passengers and normal "truck stuff" (straps, tools, etc) is probably already knocking down about 1000lbs of payload anyway.
 
jeepinmatt said:
That's a very optimistic article. Somehow they went from 300 miles to 460 miles by removing 1000lbs of payload. That may work for a Nissan Leaf, but not a full size truck. Any typical truck with 2 passengers and normal "truck stuff" (straps, tools, etc) is probably already knocking down about 1000lbs of payload anyway.
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And I guess that's where I wanna have my cake and eat it too...and why I don't think EV's truly become relevant until they can hit a travel distance of 3-500miles, WITH relatively basic 5,000-10,000lb loads, while traveling 70mph and managing the inevitable grades. I really don't think that's too much to ask for. That's the equivalent of taking a boat or camper to the mountains or beach, or going to pick up a project car, etc etc...and in my opinion those are pretty common occurrences for the average joe.
 
ponykilr said:
This is the great leap along with battery tech/recycling that will need to happen.
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That's just energy storage, not energy generation.

Let's take solar as an example. Germany says they're going to give up fossil fuels and nuclear in favor of solar farms in Spain. Cool. I'm going to muddy the waters here with alternative energy in general vs alternative energy for transportation, but it's useful for understanding the scope and scale of things.

That one farm will have to be 3x the size of the total current worldwide solar installations. Assuming the panels last 20-30 years on average, 1/3 of the total annual worldwide mining production of silver (Ag) and 10% of global silicon production will be required for panel maintenance and replacement.

140 million gallons of water will be required annually for washing the panels to prevent degradation due to dust buildup.

Now, tying that back to EVs: If you assume each "gas station" sized charging location is about 10MW (20x500KW) and that our average nuclear plant is about 1500MW, you'd need one nuke plant to support every 150 gas stations, plus the transmission and substation infrastructure to support it. There are currently 100,000 gas stations in the US, so we'd need 650 new 1500MW nuke plants to power those stations.
 
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shawn said:
Now, tying that back to EVs: If you assume each "gas station" sized charging location is about 10MW (20x500KW) and that our average nuclear plant is about 1500MW, you'd need one nuke plant to support every 150 gas stations, plus the transmission and substation infrastructure to support it.
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Look...we don't have time to debate shit like that. Do you wanna be a self-righteous hippie or look like an affluent asshat, or not?
 
So basically, barring some incredible development, once fossil fuel runs out, we’re back to 1700s life.

A7454A23-C64A-4FE8-95A6-1477CCA94966.jpeg
 
So if electric and hydrogen aren't true options what are they going to do? Not like gas will run out in our lifetimes, but eventually it would run out.

I think they should still be trying to make more hybrid cars instead of all electric to help but not fully rely on electricity.
 
ponykilr said:
So basically, barring some incredible development, once fossil fuel runs out, we’re back to 1700s life.

View attachment 350921
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Every time I watch a movie staged in the 17/1800’s, I get irrationally jealous at the dudes strong arming people into selling their land for cheap so that dude can build generational wealth. Which then makes me think of the contentment thread and I realize I wouldn’t have even been content then either. Then it also makes me think of the various crime threads where it’s stated deterrents don’t matter because folks don’t think they’ll get caught, and I question that, because I’m 110% confident I’d be the villain in all those movies. And this ramble makes me realize I’ve probably had too much coffee today…
 
UTfball68 said:
Every time I watch a movie staged in the 17/1800’s, I get irrationally jealous at the dudes strong arming people into selling their land for cheap so that dude can build generational wealth. Which then makes me think of the contentment thread and I realize I wouldn’t have even been content then either. Then it also makes me think of the various crime threads where it’s stated deterrents don’t matter because folks don’t think they’ll get caught, and I question that, because I’m 110% confident I’d be the villain in all those movies. And this ramble makes me realize I’ve probably had too much coffee today…
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One of the many reasons for stockpiling weapons. Because if you have the weapons you simply TAKE the supplies you need :huggy:
Mike Myers Evil Laugh GIF
 
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