Alright big talkers...

since i see this topic come up quite often, I need to sit down with some of you and see the possibility of maybe making something happen with 44acres a customer/friend has in Valdese. It's a bad ass piece of land just cause it's all steep hills everywhere, looks rocky enough just from driving around, I've made a couple trails in one section and it's got tons of potential. Has an access that goes around the whole property with a few access paths that goes in the middle. Has a big field in front where with little grading would be perfect for camping. It has the setup of The Flats where you would have connecting type shorter trails but then there's the back side of the land where I someday want to make a killer trail from one end of the property to the other...but dam that would be some crazy work lol.
Me and him have spoken a bunch on doing this and he's interested it's just getting the "serious" details out on paper...what it would look like. It has huge foundation of an old house that he thought to put a shop on...then a stage maybe??..for outdoor music events...he's building a small cabin there currently. It has power going to it, just needs to get back on. Water we just installed last year from a spring up to where little cabin will be.
At the very least, he's all in for "club membership" type of events...as for open to the public like other parks, that's where "logistics" have to be discussed....food for thought
I've not been out there in a little while being busy with my shop and work but when my rig is done, I will be back to playing around there. We had a blast camping there, shooting, eating, riding ATVs and playing around with my rig...I never got passed making just a few trails cause well, it's very "thick" wooded lot and steep and for one man show, time is not on my side lol.
If some/anyone think this would be of serious interest, I can get back to having some "serious" talks with him about it again. He's not really into our "Off roading" thing but he likes his ATVs, loves his hunting there and just the pleasure of hanging out on the land away from the world! But he did have a blast riding in my last rig (the avatar one) when we plowed through the woods making a few trails and he experienced a D60 axle shaft breakage while plowing over trees bouncing off rev limiter in double low and hitting a big ass stump suddenly LMBO...that was fun...and we had bunch of chainsaws in the jeep but I said "what's the fun in that"
 
Atla said:
That's where I took my wife the first time she went wheeling.


139418145_10105507684069068_3017813650707857415_n.jpg
Click to expand...
Holy cow! I didn't know you were married to MD. It was nice of her to tell you it was her first time, but I took her to Tellico back in 97 🤷‍♂️
 
marty79 said:
since i see this topic come up quite often, I need to sit down with some of you and see the possibility of maybe making something happen with 44acres a customer/friend has in Valdese. It's a bad ass piece of land just cause it's all steep hills everywhere, looks rocky enough just from driving around, I've made a couple trails in one section and it's got tons of potential. Has an access that goes around the whole property with a few access paths that goes in the middle. Has a big field in front where with little grading would be perfect for camping. It has the setup of The Flats where you would have connecting type shorter trails but then there's the back side of the land where I someday want to make a killer trail from one end of the property to the other...but dam that would be some crazy work lol.
Me and him have spoken a bunch on doing this and he's interested it's just getting the "serious" details out on paper...what it would look like. It has huge foundation of an old house that he thought to put a shop on...then a stage maybe??..for outdoor music events...he's building a small cabin there currently. It has power going to it, just needs to get back on. Water we just installed last year from a spring up to where little cabin will be.
At the very least, he's all in for "club membership" type of events...as for open to the public like other parks, that's where "logistics" have to be discussed....food for thought
I've not been out there in a little while being busy with my shop and work but when my rig is done, I will be back to playing around there. We had a blast camping there, shooting, eating, riding ATVs and playing around with my rig...I never got passed making just a few trails cause well, it's very "thick" wooded lot and steep and for one man show, time is not on my side lol.
If some/anyone think this would be of serious interest, I can get back to having some "serious" talks with him about it again. He's not really into our "Off roading" thing but he likes his ATVs, loves his hunting there and just the pleasure of hanging out on the land away from the world! But he did have a blast riding in my last rig (the avatar one) when we plowed through the woods making a few trails and he experienced a D60 axle shaft breakage while plowing over trees bouncing off rev limiter in double low and hitting a big ass stump suddenly LMBO...that was fun...and we had bunch of chainsaws in the jeep but I said "what's the fun in that"
Click to expand...

That's a hard pass right there. Not being critical of you, but that's all a shit show looking for a station to air on.
I've been on the legal lease paperwork for an off road park. Never again. All it takes is one neighbor, one contaminated stream, one injury, one tresspasser, one __________ to completely disrupt the lease agreement and begin legal ramifications you can't imagine.
You want that sort of property to play on, stick to Horsepower Park.
I will never again have implied ownership, responsibility, etc for a park.
I will however gladly pay my $xx, wear a wristband and go wheel somewhere.

Getting multiple investors together with like minds for the forseeable future will always pose a challenge. Who gives up weekends to maintain the trails on a piece of property that will likely lose value over time?

Not to piss in your Cheerios, but it's a recipe for disaster.
 
Jody Treadway said:
That's a hard pass right there. Not being critical of you, but that's all a shit show looking for a station to air on.
I've been on the legal lease paperwork for an off road park. Never again. All it takes is one neighbor, one contaminated stream, one injury, one tresspasser, one __________ to completely disrupt the lease agreement and begin legal ramifications you can't imagine.
You want that sort of property to play on, stick to Horsepower Park.
I will never again have implied ownership, responsibility, etc for a park.
I will however gladly pay my $xx, wear a wristband and go wheel somewhere.

Getting multiple investors together with like minds for the forseeable future will always pose a challenge. Who gives up weekends to maintain the trails on a piece of property that will likely lose value over time?

Not to piss in your Cheerios, but it's a recipe for disaster.
Click to expand...
I agree, this wouldn't be like what you described though, I'm well aware of that road bs. Me and him been talking, if we do itll be me in charge of who I invite and keep it private rides and the likes. Over time I'm going to make it a killer playground no matter, the rest will be up in the air.
 
marty79 said:
I agree, this wouldn't be like what you described though, I'm well aware of that road bs. Me and him been talking, if we do itll be me in charge of who I invite and keep it private rides and the likes. Over time I'm going to make it a killer playground no matter, the rest will be up in the air.
Click to expand...
He mentioned hunting......most real big hunters unless pushed would pass on that parcle. 44 acres would resemble the old Farm from the BDB. Great for 45 minutes unless you add crowds, beer and then your closed.........
 
DPG was right at 40 acres.
I dont think the Flats was much more either. (someone correct me if im wrong please)

Its doable.
 
Ron said:
DPG was right at 40 acres.
I dont think the Flats was much more either. (someone correct me if im wrong please)

Its doable.
Click to expand...
Flats was 76ish..I always heard.
I think it all depends more on the land/terrain than amount of acres. 30acres of the right kind of setup could be better than 100acres of mild trails
 
marty79 said:
30acres of the right kind of setup could be better than 100acres of mild trails
Click to expand...
For a small enough group with the right mindset. I have some decent rocks and hillclimbs on my 18 acres and I've never had an issue with anyone else on it because noone else has ever been on it because I like
marty79 said:
just the pleasure of hanging out on the land away from the world!
Click to expand...
 
marty79 said:
I agree, this wouldn't be like what you described though, I'm well aware of that road bs. Me and him been talking, if we do itll be me in charge of who I invite and keep it private rides and the likes. Over time I'm going to make it a killer playground no matter, the rest will be up in the air.
Click to expand...

Honest question
Who's gonna pay for all of the grading and trail building that needs to be done? Who pays the insurance? Since he isn't going to sell the property, only allow use of it. You ain't gonna find folks to give thier finances to build someone else's park. We've been down that road, twice, with nothing to show for it. A bunck of off roaders who spend their own time and energy won't like being turned away during hunting season.
It's a hard case to solve. The Flats was great because the land wasn't too usable for development, so there wasn't a huge desire for the landowner to do much more than pay the taxes via the lease he had with Jason. After we have all either seen private parks close or falter, we have seen where and why they failed. It isn't as simple as "we have limited access to xxx acres, let's make trails".
 
Back on topic since we know the first part of this page is going nowhere but a disaster.

Callalantee would be awesome to reopen. I look at it this way. One would have to get it for the right price and look at it like a long term real estate investment with some hope of a cash flow in the interim. You own the land and use the park revenue to pay taxes, do upkeep, insurance etc. The profit is long term as the land hopefully appreciates in value. Work with the town to make Mtn City a destination and market it as such since you have Doe Mtn. across town.

Sell memberships and daily/weekly passes or pass packages. While I know this is a rockcrawling page, I will just say that catering to the UTV crowd in some way is where your money is. The how-much-a-month-caniafford offroad crowd just hemmorhages money these days as its made offroad available to anyone with a pulse of a credit score. Since most of these people tend to come in toy haulers to a lot of parks, I would look at putting in RV hookups 30/50A pretty early on in the reopening process.

Just my 10000ft view of the whole deal.
 
StretchASU said:
Back on topic since we know the first part of this page is going nowhere but a disaster.

Callalantee would be awesome to reopen. I look at it this way. One would have to get it for the right price and look at it like a long term real estate investment with some hope of a cash flow in the interim. You own the land and use the park revenue to pay taxes, do upkeep, insurance etc. The profit is long term as the land hopefully appreciates in value. Work with the town to make Mtn City a destination and market it as such since you have Doe Mtn. across town.

Sell memberships and daily/weekly passes or pass packages. While I know this is a rockcrawling page, I will just say that catering to the UTV crowd in some way is where your money is. The how-much-a-month-caniafford offroad crowd just hemmorhages money these days as its made offroad available to anyone with a pulse of a credit score. Since most of these people tend to come in toy haulers to a lot of parks, I would look at putting in RV hookups 30/50A pretty early on in the reopening process.

Just my 10000ft view of the whole deal.
Click to expand...
Make a deal with a developer/subdivision. Buy the whole plot and sell off prime lots around the perimeter to recoup some/all of the initial investment. Keep the bulk of it, 4,000 acres or so as park with a buffer zone to the developed areas.

That being said I never went there and don't know anything about the layout or terrain.
 
Ok so imagine this. I have discussed this at length with a few people, some think its fantastic and some thing it will never work. I have never voiced it here, but here goes a condensed version.

There is currently a big shift in the off road world and social media. In a positive way I believe. IG pages and YouTube Channels like Beat Not Babied, Flex Rocks and Rollovers and many others have tens of thousands of subscribers and stuff now.

Now imagine a Non Profit that asked the off road community to subscribe to a $5/month membership and all that money goes back into off road parks. Such as, Gulches could apply for a grant to the Non Profit for a gravel parking lot. AOP could do the same and get more gravel. Choccolocco could update bath houses, the list goes on for what could be done. Purchase adjoining land for expansion, etc.

It would all be done legit, but also done in full light of the public and supporters. Such as someone (like me) coordinates 3 local to the area bidders to come out and bid the work to be done. The estimates are disclosed and chosen all on social media. Updates get posted regular. Nothing formal, it could literally be holding a selfie stick thing and go live like "Hey guys I'm here at AOP where the graders and spreading out the 300 tons of gravel we bought, this is where your $5/month is going. Tag a friend, encourage your crew to support the North American Off Road Association" (NAORA) or whatever the hell we'd call it.

Some quick math:

Followers:

Flex Rocks & Rollovers 80k
Beat Not Babied 195k
Bleepin Jeep 14k
Rock Star Garage 745k (skewed numbers due to drink, lets call it 100k)
Crawl 5280 5k

Contacting those folks to get a mention, or do a short video together to capture their followers and spread the word, cause surely they be down to help.

Now lets assume many of those followers all follow the same page, and many of them just like the content/posts on their feed. So on the low end lets say only 10% of those numbers are passionate about the off road world and would support. That's 39,400 people. But lets thin it even more and say of that 10%, only 10% of that number are actually willing to financially support this cause. That's 3,940 people at $5/month which totals $19,700 per month. Obviously there would be some overhead, but imagine what could be done with that money. I believe the numbers could be higher, and I certainly believe that once it started and people were truly seeing results, it would snow ball and more people would get behind it. The SxS crowd too.

Golden Mountain could have been purchased if this thing really took off. It could have been owned by the non-profit or placed in a holdings company. $11.5M for Callelentee might be a stretch, maybe could buy a portion, but other parks that have gone away could have been purchased, or improvements made that would have kept them open.
 
77GreenMachine said:
Ok so imagine this. I have discussed this at length with a few people, some think its fantastic and some thing it will never work. I have never voiced it here, but here goes a condensed version.

There is currently a big shift in the off road world and social media. In a positive way I believe. IG pages and YouTube Channels like Beat Not Babied, Flex Rocks and Rollovers and many others have tens of thousands of subscribers and stuff now.

Now imagine a Non Profit that asked the off road community to subscribe to a $5/month membership and all that money goes back into off road parks. Such as, Gulches could apply for a grant to the Non Profit for a gravel parking lot. AOP could do the same and get more gravel. Choccolocco could update bath houses, the list goes on for what could be done. Purchase adjoining land for expansion, etc.

It would all be done legit, but also done in full light of the public and supporters. Such as someone (like me) coordinates 3 local to the area bidders to come out and bid the work to be done. The estimates are disclosed and chosen all on social media. Updates get posted regular. Nothing formal, it could literally be holding a selfie stick thing and go live like "Hey guys I'm here at AOP where the graders and spreading out the 300 tons of gravel we bought, this is where your $5/month is going. Tag a friend, encourage your crew to support the North American Off Road Association" (NAORA) or whatever the hell we'd call it.

Some quick math:

Followers:

Flex Rocks & Rollovers 80k
Beat Not Babied 195k
Bleepin Jeep 14k
Rock Star Garage 745k (skewed numbers due to drink, lets call it 100k)
Crawl 5280 5k

Contacting those folks to get a mention, or do a short video together to capture their followers and spread the word, cause surely they be down to help.

Now lets assume many of those followers all follow the same page, and many of them just like the content/posts on their feed. So on the low end lets say only 10% of those numbers are passionate about the off road world and would support. That's 39,400 people. But lets thin it even more and say of that 10%, only 10% of that number are actually willing to financially support this cause. That's 3,940 people at $5/month which totals $19,700 per month. Obviously there would be some overhead, but imagine what could be done with that money. I believe the numbers could be higher, and I certainly believe that once it started and people were truly seeing results, it would snow ball and more people would get behind it. The SxS crowd too.

Golden Mountain could have been purchased if this thing really took off. It could have been owned by the non-profit or placed in a holdings company. $11.5M for Callelentee might be a stretch, maybe could buy a portion, but other parks that have gone away could have been purchased, or improvements made that would have kept them open.
Click to expand...
It'll never work, but I think it's fantastic! :D
 
jeepinmatt said:
I'm certain the ROI would be in the neighborhood of losing money. But I would like to own a few hundred acres in the mountains (hence why I stumbled across this), so im in for a tiny chunk.
Click to expand...
Give me a year and 10 months and I can start seriosly start looking into this. I want a min of 100 acres but would prefer around 250. I too have been looking and dreaming about it.

snappy said:
Slow down with that thought process before you fall asleep by the camp fire with a pork chop hanging out of your mouth there sparky.....lol

There is a way, SOUTHERN 4wd.
Click to expand...

I would not trust Southern 4wd to do anything to keep something straight and open. Like said F... SFWD.

77GreenMachine said:
Ok so imagine this. I have discussed this at length with a few people, some think its fantastic and some thing it will never work. I have never voiced it here, but here goes a condensed version.

There is currently a big shift in the off road world and social media. In a positive way I believe. IG pages and YouTube Channels like Beat Not Babied, Flex Rocks and Rollovers and many others have tens of thousands of subscribers and stuff now.

Now imagine a Non Profit that asked the off road community to subscribe to a $5/month membership and all that money goes back into off road parks. Such as, Gulches could apply for a grant to the Non Profit for a gravel parking lot. AOP could do the same and get more gravel. Choccolocco could update bath houses, the list goes on for what could be done. Purchase adjoining land for expansion, etc.

It would all be done legit, but also done in full light of the public and supporters. Such as someone (like me) coordinates 3 local to the area bidders to come out and bid the work to be done. The estimates are disclosed and chosen all on social media. Updates get posted regular. Nothing formal, it could literally be holding a selfie stick thing and go live like "Hey guys I'm here at AOP where the graders and spreading out the 300 tons of gravel we bought, this is where your $5/month is going. Tag a friend, encourage your crew to support the North American Off Road Association" (NAORA) or whatever the hell we'd call it.

Some quick math:

Followers:

Flex Rocks & Rollovers 80k
Beat Not Babied 195k
Bleepin Jeep 14k
Rock Star Garage 745k (skewed numbers due to drink, lets call it 100k)
Crawl 5280 5k

Contacting those folks to get a mention, or do a short video together to capture their followers and spread the word, cause surely they be down to help.

Now lets assume many of those followers all follow the same page, and many of them just like the content/posts on their feed. So on the low end lets say only 10% of those numbers are passionate about the off road world and would support. That's 39,400 people. But lets thin it even more and say of that 10%, only 10% of that number are actually willing to financially support this cause. That's 3,940 people at $5/month which totals $19,700 per month. Obviously there would be some overhead, but imagine what could be done with that money. I believe the numbers could be higher, and I certainly believe that once it started and people were truly seeing results, it would snow ball and more people would get behind it. The SxS crowd too.

Golden Mountain could have been purchased if this thing really took off. It could have been owned by the non-profit or placed in a holdings company. $11.5M for Callelentee might be a stretch, maybe could buy a portion, but other parks that have gone away could have been purchased, or improvements made that would have kept them open.
Click to expand...
We should talk more. IDK how doable what you want to do is but I see where you are coming from.

Now as for Callantee property. I'm betting that company that bought it was going to develop a portion of it and something didn't pan out. Lets see...
07/24/2020​
$5,942,295​
213​
221​
IMPROVED​
WD​
P​

Need more info on them to make a real guess..
OW PEOLINE LLC
340 MCEACHIN LANDING
HAZLEHURST, GA 31539

So lets round numbers. Say $6M purchase price. $12M was like said them trying to double the money. Anyone know how long it's been for sale or how to tell? At some point that property will either get taken back, Assuming it has some financing on it, or get dropped to a much lower price. I'd bet eventually that could be bought for close to $6-7M maybe less.
 
Just saying, if we wanted to go the lease route, we'd only need what, 50 some people to throw 1k yearly? That seems by far to be the most doable option. Lowest hanging fruit. I know myself and @336wheeler are more than down. Its not a permanent solution but if they are willing to lease...
 
77GreenMachine said:
Ok so imagine this. I have discussed this at length with a few people, some think its fantastic and some thing it will never work. I have never voiced it here, but here goes a condensed version.

There is currently a big shift in the off road world and social media. In a positive way I believe. IG pages and YouTube Channels like Beat Not Babied, Flex Rocks and Rollovers and many others have tens of thousands of subscribers and stuff now.

Now imagine a Non Profit that asked the off road community to subscribe to a $5/month membership and all that money goes back into off road parks. Such as, Gulches could apply for a grant to the Non Profit for a gravel parking lot. AOP could do the same and get more gravel. Choccolocco could update bath houses, the list goes on for what could be done. Purchase adjoining land for expansion, etc.

It would all be done legit, but also done in full light of the public and supporters. Such as someone (like me) coordinates 3 local to the area bidders to come out and bid the work to be done. The estimates are disclosed and chosen all on social media. Updates get posted regular. Nothing formal, it could literally be holding a selfie stick thing and go live like "Hey guys I'm here at AOP where the graders and spreading out the 300 tons of gravel we bought, this is where your $5/month is going. Tag a friend, encourage your crew to support the North American Off Road Association" (NAORA) or whatever the hell we'd call it.

Some quick math:

Followers:

Flex Rocks & Rollovers 80k
Beat Not Babied 195k
Bleepin Jeep 14k
Rock Star Garage 745k (skewed numbers due to drink, lets call it 100k)
Crawl 5280 5k

Contacting those folks to get a mention, or do a short video together to capture their followers and spread the word, cause surely they be down to help.

Now lets assume many of those followers all follow the same page, and many of them just like the content/posts on their feed. So on the low end lets say only 10% of those numbers are passionate about the off road world and would support. That's 39,400 people. But lets thin it even more and say of that 10%, only 10% of that number are actually willing to financially support this cause. That's 3,940 people at $5/month which totals $19,700 per month. Obviously there would be some overhead, but imagine what could be done with that money. I believe the numbers could be higher, and I certainly believe that once it started and people were truly seeing results, it would snow ball and more people would get behind it. The SxS crowd too.

Golden Mountain could have been purchased if this thing really took off. It could have been owned by the non-profit or placed in a holdings company. $11.5M for Callelentee might be a stretch, maybe could buy a portion, but other parks that have gone away could have been purchased, or improvements made that would have kept them open.
Click to expand...

This has been done recently in WNC for a mountain bike park. a youtuber put out that he wanted to build a park but didn't want to own it and have to maintain it but he would build it if enough donations came. well he got the donations and Canton had just received several hundred acres that had to be used as a park in some way. so he is building a mountain bike park on the town of cantons property fully funded by his views, then the town will maintain it and keep insurance on it.

i think it would work possibly, but it would take some doing. i think you could also get sponsors from the offroad world to add to it for.
 
Loganwayne said:
This has been done recently in WNC for a mountain bike park. a youtuber put out that he wanted to build a park but didn't want to own it and have to maintain it but he would build it if enough donations came. well he got the donations and Canton had just received several hundred acres that had to be used as a park in some way. so he is building a mountain bike park on the town of cantons property fully funded by his views, then the town will maintain it and keep insurance on it.

i think it would work possibly, but it would take some doing. i think you could also get sponsors from the offroad world to add to it for.
Click to expand...

I could see something like that working. Especially if it was inclusive of bikers and other outdoor recreation as well. But in a smaller scale. $11M is a lot of money for crowd funding.
 
77GreenMachine said:
I could see something like that working. Especially if it was inclusive of bikers and other outdoor recreation as well. But in a smaller scale. $11M is a lot of money for crowd funding.
Click to expand...
im pretty sure it got into 6 figures. the channel has 2.3 million followers.


but ya i dont think you could start it up in a week from now and expect to buy the place in a year from now. but if you ever got something like that to take traction and then found a place to buy i bet you could get some big time sponsors to "buy" the right to call the park what they wanted. the hard part would be getting to people to believe in it starting out without some proof of concept or any smaller projects done.
 
Back
Top