Alternator/Welder

[buckshot500]

here is a link to a ford 3g tig welder 3g are over 90amp
look easy enough to do will be trying it when all the parts sre collected
http://classicbroncos.com/homemade-welder.shtml

That's a great link, I bookmarked it to add to my collection of OBW links.

I see your pretty close to me. I get up that way about once a month, or so.

Maybe you could make the next "Lake Wylie Wheelers" M&G.

Not one scheduled yet, but there will be one coming up soon.

Of course your welcome to join in my sig-link.

 

[McCracken]

I know you dude ! Your the guy who has a somewhat rumpled "General Lee" cheokee.

yeah I'd say that's a pretty accurate description

Any large frame Ford alt that's pre-1984, should do it. You should try to get the 100+ amps deal though.
I have a Delco-Remy CS144 as my vehicle alt. Got it from a junkyard Cadillac. It's 140 amps, & would make a nice welder. You do have to do the internal changes to remove the regulator.
The big Ford alt I mentioned is pretty much ready to use as is.

To answer your question about the 55 amp alt, it will run 1/16" wire from what I hear.

thanks.

 

[buckshot500]

OK, I decided y'all were right.

Gonna leave it mounted, & got a 3/8"-16 grade 8 X 6" bolt for the pivot. I'll just take the belt off, when not welding. The extra big pulley spins it pretty fast, & I think the alt bearings will last longer if it's only spinning part time.

The hood problem is fixed too, BFBP took care of that. (Big Fudging Ball Peen) I hit the hood bulge with some rattle can.

I am gonna look for the Mercedes-Benz headlight dimmer, next trip to the junkyard.

 

[lockedup5]

I'm just wondering why a dimmer switch why not just cut the power w/ a regular switch?

 

[Ron]

I'm just wondering why a dimmer switch why not just cut the power w/ a regular switch?

dimmer allows for analog adjustment not on/off

 

[greenlandmonster]

Just go here you can make your own.. http://www.huv.com/jon/jeep/Welder/on-board-welder.html I made mine 4 years ago from here works great

 

[buckshot500]

I'm just wondering why a dimmer switch why not just cut the power w/ a regular switch?

I do have a regular switch.

dimmer allows for analog adjustment not on/off

EggZachary!!
At the fewest rpm's this 220 amp needs to have a steady output, it runs 1/8" E-7018 just right. If I wanted to use 1/16" wire, I'd be out of luck, & would need some kind of rheostat to "turn down" enough for the thin stuff.

Just go here you can make your own.. http://www.huv.com/jon/jeep/Welder/on-board-welder.html I made mine 4 years ago from here works great

That link, was actually one of the first ones I found.
It doesn't talk about using a much larger alternator though.

I'm not usually one to go with the first thing I find, preferring to do more research & compile enough info to make it work the way I want it to. Not the way that's good enough for Jon, & his website. (no offense intended, I'm sure Jon's works just fine!)

Besides, there's a giant truck alternator under my hood. A bit of shock & awe, is fun to see on the faces of folks who realize what the welding leads are connected to!

 

[McCracken]

ok, I'm bringing this back up because I'm having issues with my set up. I hooked everything up and I got nothing out of it. I used the WheelinDixie write up for a Delco-Remy. I just got my alternator back from the alternator shop and they said all the parts were ok and should work fine.

Now I'm wondering what I need to do differently? I got my leads and hooked them up just like the pictures show but I get no arc. I hooked the excitor wire correctly (because the other way it kept blowing the fuse). What could I be doing wrong. The only thing I can think of is that I pulled both the insulators off the screws instead of just the one like it said. Would that be the culprit?

 

[McCracken]

anybody? I'd like to get this going before my trip next week. thanks.

 

[buckshot500]

It's my understanding that the on board welders do generate welding amperage but also impose a very high frequency to help carry over the AC current at a very low voltage, much like other modern inverter welders on the market. From the ones I've used they will burn a good arc at very small arc gaps. Think burying the rod in the puddle so to speak. They however struggle to hold a long arc while trying to weld with a whip technique, proving to me they have a very low open circuit voltage available to aid in jumping the gap to establish an arc.
It's really just food for thought and if you've got this thought out I'd like a good explination on how it works,

Yes the arc exhibits the characteristics you mentioned, although I find it annoying it's not all that bad to deal with.
I notice that if I run the throttle down enough, the arc tends to fluctuate high & low.
This is kind of handy when welding lighter gauge metal, almost like "Eastwood product's" stitch welder. One thing though, if you do pop a hole it's a bit tough to close it back up.
It's my understanding that a rheostat will help dial this in.
I regret that only the nuts & bolts were thought out. The theory of it all would be something "JunkYardGenius" would know more about. You can find him on jeepsunlimited.com
He hangs on the CJ forum there.

Thanks for the clarification guys, electricity and how it behaves in a designed circuit has always baffled me.
I think I'll stick to what I know best: melting stuff with electricity.

That's what I'm talking about right there!

I guess I will stick wit my Ready Welder, 45-350 amps, and 100% duty cycle, and I don't have to be able to get to the item that needs welding, just have to have the batteries available.

Alternator welders,are 100% duty cycle!

now lets step off into the leeds:
explain exactly what polarity and reverse polarity is.I know what I have read in my research but want confirmation in which is positive grounded and negative grounded.

OK this is important, so there may be some large font coming your way. Not singling you out, the big letters are for everyone reading the thread.
Polarity;
Direct current reverse polarity= positive stinger (DCRP)
Direct current straight polarity=positive ground clamp (DCSP)
When welding on the same vehicle that the welder/alternator is running on, only DCRP (positive stinger) is allowed! Using DCSP on the welding vehicle, will short out the battery & cause all kinds of havoc!
When welding on anything that is not touching the welding vehicle, you can use either polarity

here you go to make it easier, jimmy
If the positive lead is attached to the welding rod, it is straight polarity. If the negative is attached to the welding rod, it is reverse polarity.
Jimmy, with yours spinning backwards, I don't know if that changes things up any as I don't know how that affects the output on the alternator.

Your polarity description is not correct, it's the opposite of the industry standard.

i read either on this thread or the other one that u run straight polarity if welding anything not ur truck and reverse it if u was workin on ur truck...

See my above post (2 up)

ok, I'm bringing this back up because I'm having issues with my set up. I hooked everything up and I got nothing out of it. I used the WheelinDixie write up for a Delco-Remy. I just got my alternator back from the alternator shop and they said all the parts were ok and should work fine.
Now I'm wondering what I need to do differently? I got my leads and hooked them up just like the pictures show but I get no arc. I hooked the excitor wire correctly (because the other way it kept blowing the fuse). What could I be doing wrong. The only thing I can think of is that I pulled both the insulators off the screws instead of just the one like it said. Would that be the culprit?

It could be, you don't want the lead (alt-batt +positive) terminal grounding to the case. The excite wire goes (Fused & switched) to the battery positive terminal.(on the battery)
You did remove the voltage regulator from the Delco right?


Sorry for the delay y'all, been busy & haven't been on the site lately. I'll try to stop in here more for a bit.
I'll try to help anyone wanting to do this, it's too good of a thing to pass on if you want it.

 

[clarkjw24]

ok, I'm bringing this back up because I'm having issues with my set up. I hooked everything up and I got nothing out of it. I used the WheelinDixie write up for a Delco-Remy. I just got my alternator back from the alternator shop and they said all the parts were ok and should work fine.
Now I'm wondering what I need to do differently? I got my leads and hooked them up just like the pictures show but I get no arc. I hooked the excitor wire correctly (because the other way it kept blowing the fuse). What could I be doing wrong. The only thing I can think of is that I pulled both the insulators off the screws instead of just the one like it said. Would that be the culprit?

Did you use quick connect leads like mine? If so make sure they're getting good contact. We only pulledd the one insulator so that could be it.

 

[ord.sgt.26NC]

OK this is important, so there may be some large font coming your way. Not singling you out, the big letters are for everyone reading the thread.
Polarity;
Direct current reverse polarity= positive stinger (DCRP)
Direct current straight polarity=positive ground clamp (DCSP)
When welding on the same vehicle that the welder/alternator is running on, only DCRP (positive stinger) is allowed! Using DCSP on the welding vehicle, will short out the battery & cause all kinds of havoc!
When welding on anything that is not touching the welding vehicle, you can use either polarity
This is the way I understood it also.I'm stinger/positive and my leads are long enough to reach around the whole Willys to repair my own stuff if need be.

 

[buckshot500]

This is the way I understood it also.I'm stinger/positive and my leads are long enough to reach around the whole Willys to repair my own stuff if need be.

My leads are a little short to reach the back of my heep.

I had them on hand, so I used them. If I can find the quick connectors with the ring terminals, I will make some extension leads. At least one, for the stinger.

 

[McCracken]

It could be, you don't want the lead (alt-batt +positive) terminal grounding to the case. The excite wire goes (Fused & switched) to the battery positive terminal.(on the battery)
You did remove the voltage regulator from the Delco right?


Sorry for the delay y'all, been busy & haven't been on the site lately. I'll try to stop in here more for a bit.
I'll try to help anyone wanting to do this, it's too good of a thing to pass on if you want it.

I removed exactly what the pictures show except I removed all the insulation around the screws in that one area. According to the pics they didn't remove the last screw with insulation and I did.

 

[McCracken]

Did you use quick connect leads like mine? If so make sure they're getting good contact. We only pulledd the one insulator so that could be it.

No I cheaped out and didn't. The leads cost me $70 and I wanted to keep it as cheap as possible. What would happen if you removed that insulation? Would it ground?

 

[buckshot500]

No I cheaped out and didn't. The leads cost me $70 and I wanted to keep it as cheap as possible. What would happen if you removed that insulation? Would it ground?

Sounds like it may have grounded to the case, but it's really hard to tell. Also I'm not sure what the results of that would be.

You didn't smell smoke or anything?

Might could have fried something like diodes,can you have it checked out again?

Were the posts too short for the terminals? Is that why the second insulator was omitted?

Also, to be clear when you say all the insulation in that one area, you mean the alternator's Batt. post right?

 

[McCracken]

Sounds like it may have grounded to the case, but it's really hard to tell. Also I'm not sure what the results of that would be.

You didn't smell smoke or anything?

Might could have fried something like diodes,can you have it checked out again?

Were the posts too short for the terminals? Is that why the second insulator was omitted?

Also, to be clear when you say all the insulation in that one area, you mean the alternator's Batt. post right?

no, I'm talking about the insulation on the screw. There are 3 screws and two show no insulation and one with insulation. All 3 of mine are not insulated.

I took the alternator to the rebuilder to check the components after I hooked everything up and it wouldn't work. he said everything was top notch. I grounded off the case and ran the hot just like it showed in the WheelinDixie report.

 

[ord.sgt.26NC]

you need to have it looking like it does in the photos.If one screw still has the insulation ,you need to put it back on.

 

[McCracken]

What sucks is that I threw that stuff away. I guess I'll have to go back to the alternator shop to see if I can score one there. That or fab something up.

 

[McCracken]

Alright I've been studying this and I've got yet another question. Possible a dumb one.

according to this pic it looks like hot is on top and negative ob bottom (judging from the marks outside of the connection points).

but in this one ...

the negative is on top. Here's the dumb question. Does the stinger attach to the positive screw on the back of the alternator or to the case. I thought it would attach to the + screw. Do I have it backwards? I'm asking about welding to someone else's rig. Maybe some clarification on that point in particular would help (ie - wiring to weld on your own rig vs. welding on someone else's).

One last thing. Would this work with a CS130 alternator?

 

[ord.sgt.26NC]

when welding on somebody elses rig,it doesn't matter but for simplicity's sake, hook the stinger up to the positive post on the alt.That will have you covered if you need to weld on your own rig.

I don't know about the cs130.

 

[McCracken]

I give up. I went and got an insulator for the screw and installed it. I wired in the relay like this...

30 - Batt
85 - GRD
86 - SWITCH
87 - ALT

I used a voltmeter to test the connection and it showed 12 going to the alt to excite the field. Evidentally the dude at the alternator shop missed something. It just doesn't work. Also, it's a 55 amp which may not be enough juice to begin with. Oh well, I'll look at the CS130 and see what I can make of it. Should be the same basic principle, right?

 

[buckshot500]

I give up. I went and got an insulator for the screw and installed it. I wired in the relay like this...
30 - Batt
85 - GRD
86 - SWITCH
87 - ALT
I used a voltmeter to test the connection and it showed 12 going to the alt to excite the field. Evidentally the dude at the alternator shop missed something. It just doesn't work. Also, it's a 55 amp which may not be enough juice to begin with. Oh well, I'll look at the CS130 and see what I can make of it. Should be the same basic principle, right?

OK, I have not seen the instructions you are following.

I don't use a relay at all.

I run a fairly thin wire right from the battery's +positive terminal, to the alternator's field/excite connection. This wire has a 15amp fuse & a 20 amp switch rated for AC/DC.

My alt has a ground that is not grounded to the alt case, although it could be that way.

So my alt has a ground terminal that is my welding -negative lead, & your deal the alt case is the -negative welding lead for the work ground clamp.

We both have an alt +(batt) positive terminal that is the +welding lead/stinger. This does not connect to the battery at all. It's sole purpose is the stinger.

With the engine running, a throw of the switch should have you throwing sparks from your electrode.

You may need to throttle up to get enough juice to have an arc capable of welding.

Make a hand throttle from an old bicycle shifter. I used a thick bead chain with a little slack when to H/T is released. This way it cant interfere with normal throttle operation.

Remember a 55 amp unit will only use thinner rods like 1/16"

A CS144 is a 140 amp unit, & would be somewhat better for welding with thicker rods 3/32".

Having you stinger/electrode +positive is the only way you can weld on your rig. you can weld on anything like this.

The only reason to switch the leads, would be for a faster fill/less penetration weld. But you cant do this on your rig.

 

[ord.sgt.26NC]

in my research,I found a write up on the cs 140 cases and there was something different on the inside that makes it more difficult to convert.Memory isn't working too good right now.

I also found a company that for 50 dollars sends you what you need to convert your unit over to get 100 amps.I haven't bought it yet but I might a little later in the summer.Here is the link to the kit.Gone up just a little in price to 65 dollars:
http://www.alternatorparts.com/HO-7011_kit_contents.htm

that is part number HO-7011

My alt. is rated at 62 amps and I can do 1/8th rods with it.My problem is with engine speed to get the arc strong.I'm red lining that ole flat head doing it.I might also see if I can get a smaller pulley for the welder to speed it up.

 

[buckshot500]

My alt. is rated at 62 amps and I can do 1/8th rods with it.My problem is with engine speed to get the arc strong.I'm red lining that ole flat head doing it.I might also see if I can get a smaller pulley for the welder to speed it up.

My 220 amp unit was like that, had to run at 2500 RPM's.

My unit is driven off a second P/S pump pulley, that was small.

So I bolted an old crankshaft pulley to it, (Much bigger) & now I'm welding at 1400 RPM's.

You can only go so small on the driven (alt) pulley, but you can make the drive pulley as big as you want.

Your post makes me wonder how much juice this monster would put out, if I throttled it up to 3500 RPM's. Hope it's enough to air carbon arc with 1/4" rods!