That is true. My back-of-the-napkin was about 50% more, instead of double, but I didn't spend much time on that. I'd have to move a gas unit to the other end of the house, outside, along with the gas line and wiring, and all the plumbing, so that's not nearly as attractive. Basically as far away as you can get from the bathrooms.
That is true. My back-of-the-napkin was about 50% more, instead of double, but I didn't spend much time on that. I'd have to move a gas unit to the other end of the house, outside, along with the gas line and wiring, and all the plumbing, so that's not nearly as attractive.
That was the third option, maybe do a pair of short crawlspace storage heaters. Or a really fat short one if I can find it.
I can't see how a electric tankless can be less energy efficient than an electric storage though. Nothing seems to point that way. We already have an electric storage unit. Doesn't make sense.
Stop! Ask yourself why.
-gas most long run economical- most upfront cost
- electric instant- most expensive long term- lower up front
- standard tank, insulate lines. Most economical up front- fairly efficient
Added tanks- storage or point of contact hot water heaters add cost and additional failure point.
All this to get your hot water 15 seconds faster.
You could add a loop to your hot water system and use a small electric temp controlled pump to recirculate the hot water.
Whatever you do if your hot water lines aren’t fully insulated your still going to have a delay in hot water and wasting extra money on things that won’t fix the problem. Even insulated the water won’t stay hot in the line for a long time. 5-10 minutes
That was the third option, maybe do a pair of short crawlspace storage heaters. Or a really fat short one if I can find it.
I can't see how a electric tankless can be less energy efficient than an electric storage though. Nothing seems to point that way. We already have an electric storage unit. Doesn't make sense.
That only affects current draw, not the amount of energy required to heat water by a certain deltaT. Also, the tankless modulate output power based on temp, they're not an on-off switch like the storage units so would only hit full power at high flow in the winter or if undersized.
No matter what, it's going to have lower operating cost than the electric storage unit we have now. May be pretty marginal, but will be lower.
The flare of our driveway loop wasn't paved big enough, so people regularly run off the edge. I decided to see what I could do without spending any money and without leaving the house. I got all of the rocks from the creek behind my house. I found a bag and a half of pebbles in my shed to fill the gaps between the rocks along with one bail of pine needles.
I'll bet you a beer it doesn't work out that way.
I get the math same as you. We can dive into the minutia and talk about extended loss at initial on and longer run times.
You also need to make sure you aren't in a Duke high demand area where they will adjust your kwh based on peak demand...(that just ends the whole debate if so)
I cant tell you if the units are just hella inefficient or if there is a anti-placebo effect where your showers get longer or I could speculate a 100 different ideas....but I can say in my experience, it never gets cheaper for electric tankless than electric tanked.
Ultimately, you do you, and whatever makes you happy.
The flare of our driveway loop wasn't paved big enough, so people regularly run off the edge. I decided to see what I could do without spending any money and without leaving the house. I got all of the rocks from the creek behind my house. I found a bag and a half of pebbles in my shed to fill the gaps between the rocks along with one bail of pine needles.
I'll bet you a beer it doesn't work out that way.
I get the math same as you. We can dive into the minutia and talk about extended loss at initial on and longer run times.
You also need to make sure you aren't in a Duke high demand area where they will adjust your kwh based on peak demand...(that just ends the whole debate if so)
I cant tell you if the units are just hella inefficient or if there is a anti-placebo effect where your showers get longer or I could speculate a 100 different ideas....but I can say in my experience, it never gets cheaper for electric tankless than electric tanked.
Ultimately, you do you, and whatever makes you happy.
Yeah, I'd guess it's probably a change in how people use it (longer showers, etc). They're supposedly 99% efficient, so there has to be something else at play there.
We're at $0.0845/kWh summer, $0.078/kWh winter, with no demand charges (currently), and not a Duke customer. Pretty average rates, from what I understand.
I'll bet you a beer it doesn't work out that way.
I get the math same as you. We can dive into the minutia and talk about extended loss at initial on and longer run times.
You also need to make sure you aren't in a Duke high demand area where they will adjust your kwh based on peak demand...(that just ends the whole debate if so)
I cant tell you if the units are just hella inefficient or if there is a anti-placebo effect where your showers get longer or I could speculate a 100 different ideas....but I can say in my experience, it never gets cheaper for electric tankless than electric tanked.
Ultimately, you do you, and whatever makes you happy.
i just figured it wasnt worth the argument. everyone of our clients (who dont care about money for the most part) have had us come back and change out for gas units or tanked.
and yes they have had their electric bill go up so much that they thought it was a better idea to get a propane tank plumb it in and a gas water heater.
We use a tankless propane Rhanii or whatever they are called and couldn’t be happier. The reason for it is that when we built the house my wife wanted a swimming pool in the master bathroom.
i just figured it wasnt worth the argument. everyone of our clients (who dont care about money for the most part) have had us come back and change out for gas units or tanked.
and yes they have had their electric bill go up so much that they thought it was a better idea to get a propane tank plumb it in and a gas water heater.
I'm soooo curious now about what's going on here. I need some water usage to electric bill correlation to wrap my head around it, or some kind of additional data. There just seems like there has to be another factor here; that is what is hurting my brain.
I'm soooo curious now about what's going on here. I need some water usage to electric bill correlation to wrap my head around it, or some kind of additional data. There just seems like there has to be another factor here; that is what is hurting my brain.
Okay, in my simple ass mind the reason is due to how much electricity it takes to instantly heat the water you are using at that time vs how much it takes to heat up and store a volume of water in a tank over x amount of time.
They did pretty good. I took every opportunity, instead of micro-managing like they are used to, just giving them basic instructions and turning them loose. Then wait for them to come and ask for more help or information. Planting bed wrapping around the parking area. Dug it out to about 12-14" deep. Filling with a mix of screened compost and my new-found topsoil.
We cancelled our Pigeon Forge trip and the kids helped me build this. Still waiting on one bracket for the swing beam and the slide I ordered. Buddy gave me the slide off his old tree house so I think we’re going to run dual slides because return shipping on the new slide would suck.
We cancelled our Pigeon Forge trip and the kids helped me build this. Still waiting on one bracket for the swing beam and the slide I ordered. Buddy gave me the slide off his old tree house so I think we’re going to run dual slides because return shipping on the new slide would suck.
We rescheduled our OBX trip and started working on some of the house projects we've been putting off for waayyyy too long.
Started with the goat play pen:
Then we finally removed the old, broken lattice from under the porch & cleaned out all the shit that had gotten tossed there over the years (errr decades)
Then we started making new porch doors. Once complete, we'll stain the frames & paint the tin with a hammered bronze (ignore my color test)
