Duke Energy High Bill?

shawn said:
Recently had an ME talk me out of dual-fuel heat pumps. He said it's a lot cheaper to run the gas full-time than use the blended system. I've since run the numbers on a couple of different cost estimators, and they back it up. Might give it a try and see what it does for you.
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Did I just read you say @CasterTroy was right and I (you) was wrong?
 
rockcity said:
The rate increase was requested but I'm not sure if it ever got approved yet.
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It has not been approved. Duke is asking to raise the base fee from $11/mo to $19/mo. So long as you're not on a time-of-use plan, you're paying $0.10/KWh.

There are lots of reasons why usage can be higher, including doing a lot of welding, having electric heat, having a bad check valve on the well pump that cause it to run constantly, Christmas lights make a big difference, etc, etc.
 
ckruzer said:
Anyone else get an unexplainable high bill that doesn't make sense?
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Yep......got one for about $270 for December. Usually runs about $150 max for winter months. They also sent the bill to my parents address and said I haven't paid since September so the actual bill was about $500 and some change.:rolleyes: Not sure whats up with that though. Looks like my neighbors bill is gonna be extremely high next month.......
 
shawn said:
Recently had an ME talk me out of dual-fuel heat pumps. He said it's a lot cheaper to run the gas full-time than use the blended system. I've since run the numbers on a couple of different cost estimators, and they back it up. Might give it a try and see what it does for you.
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The switchover temperature is adjustable on the thermostat. It seemed too low when we originally moved in the house, so my wife raised it some. There is more to that story though. The original installer was a dumbass and installed the wrong controller/thermostat. I don't know what the switchover temp is set at currently. I may check into raising it much further and see what happens. Thanks for the tip.
 
drkelly said:
The switchover temperature is adjustable on the thermostat. It seemed too low when we originally moved in the house, so my wife raised it some. There is more to that story though. The original installer was a dumbass and installed the wrong controller/thermostat. I don't know what the switchover temp is set at currently. I may check into raising it much further and see what happens. Thanks for the tip.
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if i understand whats being said that Alt mode of the pump = constant running constant drain.... then the higher you set it the sooner it cuts on? So ideally it would be the lower you can go without the pump failing from cold damage?

or am i missing somethign?
 
if you have a regular heat pump it probably was running on emergency heat for a week or more... thats basically a big ass electric heater heating your house. its gonna use some power
 
ckruzer said:
if i understand whats being said that Alt mode of the pump = constant running constant drain.... then the higher you set it the sooner it cuts on? So ideally it would be the lower you can go without the pump failing from cold damage?

or am i missing somethign?
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In my dual fuel unit, the heat pump runs until the outside temperature gets down to whatever the control is set at (say 40 degrees F). At that point, the system switches over and fires up gas burners to make heat and the heat pump components sit idle.

From the Trane website:
The heat pump is effective by itself down to temperatures around 25 to 30 degrees Fahrenheit. At that point, either a gas furnace or an air handler with supplemental electric heat will kick in and help heat your home.

I've never seen inside one, but I believe the 'supplemental electric heat' is like a MASSIVE toaster built into your HVAC system that makes the electric meter on your house spin faster when it turns on, LOL.
 
drkelly said:
In my dual fuel unit, the heat pump runs until the outside temperature gets down to whatever the control is set at (say 40 degrees F). At that point, the system switches over and fires up gas burners to make heat and the heat pump components sit idle.

From the Trane website:
The heat pump is effective by itself down to temperatures around 25 to 30 degrees Fahrenheit. At that point, either a gas furnace or an air handler with supplemental electric heat will kick in and help heat your home.

I've never seen inside one, but I believe the 'supplemental electric heat' is like a MASSIVE toaster built into your HVAC system that makes the electric meter on your house spin faster when it turns on, LOL.
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Makes so much more sense now.

Still hard to believe thats what caused the dramatic increase
 
shawn said:
It wasn't him. Dunno what his thoughts on it are.
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I think they're great. With the CoP of a heat pump, you can't beat the efficiency down to 40 degrees. Below 40 switch over to gas.

In a power outage, you can bypass the t-stst and run the furnace. Best thing is the whole system is only about $400 over traditional furnace.

Too many variables to assess why your electric bill may be too high, but I'd check and see if your strip heat is operating above 32 degrees
 
ckruzer said:
Makes so much more sense now.

Still hard to believe thats what caused the dramatic increase
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I'll have to go look up the conversion. I think 1 hour of heat strips = 6 hours of heat pump as far as kwh. Rule of thumb of course unit size dependent.
 
CasterTroy said:
I think they're great. With the CoP of a heat pump, you can't beat the efficiency down to 40 degrees. Below 40 switch over to gas.
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Do you have a calculator that will compare a dual-fuel heat pump to a straight furnace? I found a couple of them on the internets, but can't find one now. I have a few that will do conventional heat pump w/heat strips vs gas furnace, but the one I had before could even work out what the appropriate set point was for the switchover to save the most money.

We're currently paying $0.09336 per KWh and $0.91890 per therm.

This all came up when we had to replace the system at the old house. The original system was a hybrid gas furnace /heat pump, and we went to replace it with the same, they told us we'd save money with a furnace and an AC unit. Initial cost was more and cost per month in the heating season was more.
 
Yes when that grid heater kicks on you can almost hear the meter speed up! Lol

I don't think this is related to your high bill, but I'll share for you and anyone else hunting down something sucking power...

We had some very high power bills 3-4 months in a row. I couldn't figure out why. I know my fridge runs way too often and plan to replace it soon. I was really sick of $335 power bills and convinced it was the fridge running nearly constantly. I had to go under the house and found out my hot water heater blow off valve was bad and was running out a pretty steady flow of water. I replaced it and had the same problem. Lowered the water heater temp, same problem. Bought a hose bib gauge and found out I had 180psi in the house because my pressure regulator valve went bad!! I replaced it and the water stopped flowing=power bill back down to normal. The water heater was just running non stop trying to maintain temperture due to water flowing thru it. I'm not sure how my inside fixtures and ice maker or washing machine didn't cause me a huge headache but I'm sure glad it all held. I remember thinking "man this shower is so much better than it used to be"
 
That was more of a pressure washer than a shower head...
 
shawn said:
Do you have a calculator that will compare a dual-fuel heat pump to a straight furnace? .
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To be completely honest, the Trane rep has been so diligent and thirsty, he usually comes and runs selection software on his laptop here in the last several months. Haven't even opened TOPSS on my computer to run a selection or cost analysis in forever. I'm not sure who reps your area but I'm sure a Trane rep in the area can hook you up with TOPSS software which will run a virtual trend based on kwh and gas prices.
 
Evey winter when my bills go up, I think again about setting up some kind of energy-usage monitoring system. Not just a simple current meter for the box, but doing it whole-hog and setting up monitors on every circuit so I can really track fluctuations and chase down where things are going.
Then I look into what it will cost even to build all the stuff myself, and say, eh, maybe later. There are some great tools for this out there but they are all $$$ if you want to really get detailed info.
I haven't seen our Dec bill yet but I'm sure it will be painful, and will be followed by more pain in Jan.
I envy you guys with only $100 bills, ours averages $300+ in winter. Combo of older, inefficient house, and higher utility costs here.
 
This makes me scared to go from our gas pack (it's old and waiting to die) to something else like multi-zone mini splits. Might stick to a smaller gas pack and zoning for downstairs, and a mini split for the 1/4 of the house upstairs (which is hottest part of the house year round).
Supplemental heat sounds expensive. Aren't most of the mini splits rated for really low ambient temperature though, so not much need for aux heat?
 
Fabrik8 said:
Aren't most of the mini splits rated for really low ambient temperature though, so not much need for aux heat?
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Not from my experience. Samsung, Mitsubishi, fujitsu.....etc lock out the condensor at 30-32
 
I'm a single guy with total electric & heat-pump. My bill recently increased about $10, but I also took in a roommate, And was home more during the Cold Holidays. I pay Duke 10.3 cents per KWH. Not on an Average plan, just normal month to month. My bill & your's, are generally 10 - 20 days Behind, so you have to think back a few weeks. My Current bill is Nov 28 - Dec 28, 30 days. My bill is $94, + .83 renewable energy rider [?], & tax - $6.64. Total > $101.47. No Haters Please!
 
CasterTroy said:
To be completely honest, the Trane rep has been so diligent and thirsty, he usually comes and runs selection software on his laptop here in the last several months. Haven't even opened TOPSS on my computer to run a selection or cost analysis in forever. I'm not sure who reps your area but I'm sure a Trane rep in the area can hook you up with TOPSS software which will run a virtual trend based on kwh and gas prices.
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Brady has been my go-to for Trane in Raleigh area but they hadn't been really customer focused as much as I had hoped. But, I had been working with them in the industrial market, their residential side may be more customer focused.
 
Fabrik8 said:
scared to go from our gas pack (
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Fuck a gas pack. I say, when yours goes out, let's throw a party. Then you can write the HVAC man a $10k check.

That's my plan, anyway. I don't know who thought it was a good idea to run conditioned air through a box that sits out in the yard.
 
shawn said:
Fuck a gas pack. I say, when yours goes out, let's throw a party. Then you can write the HVAC man a $10k check.

That's my plan, anyway. I don't know who thought it was a good idea to run conditioned air through a box that sits out in the yard.
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I totally agree, and the cost is pretty much dead-on from a few rough quotes on system replacement that I got during repair work.

But, where does a split system go? In the small unconditioned attic upstairs? In the undersized laundry room? In a small addition to be built specifically to house mechanical bits?

This is my dilemma right now.

I'm still thinking up options, knowing that the flex ducts are leaky (from bad install quality) and should probably be replaced after 30 years, and it's a 3.5 ton unit for a 1800sqft house in climate zone 3. I'd have to get calcs done, but if we are going to stick with a gas pack then something like a 2.5 or 3 seems more logical, especially if we rip the attic ducting out for the upstairs (400sqft) and use a mini-split up there. I need my own thread for this shit for some serious discussion, it stresses me out but I want to do it in a logical way.
 
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