Found extra parts in my oil pan

I overlooked that it said "after the overheat". I was thinking he meant 75 cold and 50 warm.

That could be the o ring on the oil pump pickup tube. I originally assembled my motor with the supplied o ring that came from Melling with the oil pump. I think they come with a green and a black. I used the tighter fitting of the two, which was the green one. I got about the same 50 psi cold and 25-30 at idle when warm. I knew that wasn't right, so I started doing some digging. I wasn't the only one and most solved it by getting a red GM o ring that's thicker. I found that if it doesn't seem almost impossible to get the pickup tube in the bottom of the oil pump, it isn't tight enough...apparently. Who knew? I have the normal 60+ cold idle and 35-40 psi warm idle now.

The green one is .140" thick, the red one is .165" thick. PN is 12584922. It was like 5 bucks at my local GM dealer. Not saying that's your issue, but it's a good place to start. I don't know why they wouldn't supply the proper o ring with the oil pump, but it happens a lot.


Damn man, I hate that it sounds like you're gunna tear this thing back apart! First a head, maybe both, and possibly the oil pan!
 
Croatan_Kid said:
I overlooked that it said "after the overheat". I was thinking he meant 75 cold and 50 warm.

That could be the o ring on the oil pump pickup tube. I originally assembled my motor with the supplied o ring that came from Melling with the oil pump. I think they come with a green and a black. I used the tighter fitting of the two, which was the green one. I got about the same 50 psi cold and 25-30 at idle when warm. I knew that wasn't right, so I started doing some digging. I wasn't the only one and most solved it by getting a red GM o ring that's thicker. I found that if it doesn't seem almost impossible to get the pickup tube in the bottom of the oil pump, it isn't tight enough...apparently. Who knew? I have the normal 60+ cold idle and 35-40 psi warm idle now.

The green one is .140" thick, the red one is .165" thick. PN is 12584922. It was like 5 bucks at my local GM dealer. Not saying that's your issue, but it's a good place to start. I don't know why they wouldn't supply the proper o ring with the oil pump, but it happens a lot.


Damn man, I hate that it sounds like you're gunna tear this thing back apart! First a head, maybe both, and possibly the oil pan!
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And pan means motor comes out… again
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Croatan_Kid said:
I overlooked that it said "after the overheat". I was thinking he meant 75 cold and 50 warm.

That could be the o ring on the oil pump pickup tube. I originally assembled my motor with the supplied o ring that came from Melling with the oil pump. I think they come with a green and a black. I used the tighter fitting of the two, which was the green one. I got about the same 50 psi cold and 25-30 at idle when warm. I knew that wasn't right, so I started doing some digging. I wasn't the only one and most solved it by getting a red GM o ring that's thicker. I found that if it doesn't seem almost impossible to get the pickup tube in the bottom of the oil pump, it isn't tight enough...apparently. Who knew? I have the normal 60+ cold idle and 35-40 psi warm idle now.

The green one is .140" thick, the red one is .165" thick. PN is 12584922. It was like 5 bucks at my local GM dealer. Not saying that's your issue, but it's a good place to start. I don't know why they wouldn't supply the proper o ring with the oil pump, but it happens a lot.


Damn man, I hate that it sounds like you're gunna tear this thing back apart! First a head, maybe both, and possibly the oil pan!
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Since I just installed a melling pump in the Ls for my swap, I’d like to correct this a little bit.

Factory GM used two orings based off pick up tube design. The first was blue and .140” thick. The second is red and .165” thick. Melling sends both thicknesses of orings with their pumps but they are black and green. Black is .140” and is used in the same applications as the GM blue. The same is then true for the red(GM) and green(Melling) orings.
 
The green one I got from Melling was definitely not the same as the red one from GM and the other one I got was black. They may have since changed colors and thicknesses. I did mine back in 2012.

EDIT: I got a Melling M295. All of them I see (just based on pictures) still come with a black and a green. That's not to say that's what they actually ship with now. They may have finally gotten the message. At any rate, I had to get a different (thicker) one.
 
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untchabl said:
Don't hold me to it, but I "think" some of the guys on the Sloppy Mechanics FB group were talking about having some issues with some of the newer LS7 lifters. Not sure if they were talking about GM or aftermarket ones. Not even 100% sure I'm remembering that correctly.

What brand lifters did you use for the rebuild?
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Not saying its the case here but there's a video on youtube that talks about lifter problems and lack of quality lifters on the market.
 
Croatan_Kid said:
I'm guessing there's no room to drop it without pulling the motor?
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If I drop the pan, I’ll cut the oil pan skid protection tube off. Then just weld tabs back on to make it removable in the future.
Croatan_Kid said:
I overlooked that it said "after the overheat". I was thinking he meant 75 cold and 50 warm.

That could be the o ring on the oil pump pickup tube. I originally assembled my motor with the supplied o ring that came from Melling with the oil pump. I think they come with a green and a black. I used the tighter fitting of the two, which was the green one. I got about the same 50 psi cold and 25-30 at idle when warm. I knew that wasn't right, so I started doing some digging. I wasn't the only one and most solved it by getting a red GM o ring that's thicker. I found that if it doesn't seem almost impossible to get the pickup tube in the bottom of the oil pump, it isn't tight enough...apparently. Who knew? I have the normal 60+ cold idle and 35-40 psi warm idle now.

The green one is .140" thick, the red one is .165" thick. PN is 12584922. It was like 5 bucks at my local GM dealer. Not saying that's your issue, but it's a good place to start. I don't know why they wouldn't supply the proper o ring with the oil pump, but it happens a lot.


Damn man, I hate that it sounds like you're gunna tear this thing back apart! First a head, maybe both, and possibly the oil pan!
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Yeah I used the green supplied oring that came with the milling high volume pump. It fit tight for sure. It’s got about 50 hrs on the current oil pump. And just dropped pressure after the over heat on this past trip. Do you think the 25psi lost in oil pressure could be due to a lifter coming apart? I would tend to think it would. But hard to say with no new noticeable noises.
 
Croatan_Kid said:
He's got marketing down, along with Texas Speed, and I guess that's why so many people get stuff from there.
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TS has Cletus Mcfarland to thanks for some of that.
 
Croatan_Kid said:
Damn man, I hate that it sounds like you're gunna tear this thing back apart! First a head, maybe both, and possibly the oil pan!
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Yep probably so. I’m really learning the ins and outs of this motor haha. For piece of mind I’ll probably tear it down and check it out. Then fix the issue (if any) and throw some more abuse at it. If something happens with it again I’ll be very tempted to order a new Blueprint engine lol
 
Will miller said:
If I drop the pan, I’ll cut the oil pan skid protection tube off. Then just weld tabs back on to make it removable in the future.

Yeah I used the green supplied oring that came with the milling high volume pump. It fit tight for sure. It’s got about 50 hrs on the current oil pump. And just dropped pressure after the over heat on this past trip. Do you think the 25psi lost in oil pressure could be due to a lifter coming apart? I would tend to think it would. But hard to say with no new noticeable noises.
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Did it pick up any more oil pressure after you changed the oil? Obviously if the motor overheated, then the oil probably did too and it thinned out. I'd imagine a crapped out lifter could show a change in oil pressure, but I can't draw a direct correlation between overheating and a lifter giving up on life. It could all be unfortune coincidence and bad timing. FWIW, I thought my green o ring was tight too until I shoved the red one in there. Hopefully the overheating didn't thin the oil enough to wipe out a cam bearing or something. Just how bad did it overheat, anyway?


1-tonmudder said:
Not saying its the case here but there's a video on youtube that talks about lifter problems and lack of quality lifters on the market.
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I did read some stuff about people in the last few years having issues with these coming apart, but it was kinda hit or miss. I'd imagine as the demand went up they looked for a cheaper place to source them and with that you generally get a decline in the product's quality. The ones I saw were mostly the axle removing itself from service or the rollers wearing flat for one reason or another.


1-tonmudder said:
TS has Cletus Mcfarland to thanks for some of that.
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You've definitely got a point there.


Will miller said:
Yep probably so. I’m really learning the ins and outs of this motor haha. For piece of mind I’ll probably tear it down and check it out. Then fix the issue (if any) and throw some more abuse at it. If something happens with it again I’ll be very tempted to order a new Blueprint engine lol
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Did someone say LS3? :D I'm pretty sure someone said LS3... Doesn't sound like any of us need it, but I'll certainly try to help you be more broke!
 
Croatan_Kid said:
Did it pick up any more oil pressure after you changed the oil? Obviously if the motor overheated, then the oil probably did too and it thinned out. I'd imagine a crapped out lifter could show a change in oil pressure, but I can't draw a direct correlation between overheating and a lifter giving up on life. It could all be unfortune coincidence and bad timing. FWIW, I thought my green o ring was tight too until I shoved the red one in there. Hopefully the overheating didn't thin the oil enough to wipe out a cam bearing or something. Just how bad did it overheat, anyway?




I did read some stuff about people in the last few years having issues with these coming apart, but it was kinda hit or miss. I'd imagine as the demand went up they looked for a cheaper place to source them and with that you generally get a decline in the product's quality. The ones I saw were mostly the axle removing itself from service or the rollers wearing flat for one reason or another.




You've definitely got a point there.




Did someone say LS3? :D I'm pretty sure someone said LS3... Doesn't sound like any of us need it, but I'll certainly try to help you be more broke!
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She was hot. I believe Billy said his gauge was pegged out. Just don’t remember remember how high it reads.
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Croatan_Kid said:
. Just how bad did it overheat, anyway?
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Hot enough the real long orange light came on underneath. You know, that one that runs from the motor to the back. It was on for like, 3 minutes according to my video… :rockon:
 
That's...that's hot. That's what that is.

I'm kinda thinking the extra jiblets found in the oil pan and the lower oil pressure are separate issues. If it got that hot, there's no telling if it hurt the oil pump, possibly melted the pickup o ring, or maybe even the oil diverter "barbell" at the rear of the block. I'm leaning towards plastic rubber failures before bearing or oil pump failures because you haven't indicated any concerning noises or excess metal during the oil change.

Whatever it is will likely be a simple thing that's a pain in the ass to change and/or fix :D

Damn, I'm ready to dig in to this thing and see what's up with it!
 
Croatan_Kid said:
That's...that's hot. That's what that is.

I'm kinda thinking the extra jiblets found in the oil pan and the lower oil pressure are separate issues. If it got that hot, there's no telling if it hurt the oil pump, possibly melted the pickup o ring, or maybe even the oil diverter "barbell" at the rear of the block. I'm leaning towards plastic rubber failures before bearing or oil pump failures because you haven't indicated any concerning noises or excess metal during the oil change.

Whatever it is will likely be a simple thing that's a pain in the ass to change and/or fix :D

Damn, I'm ready to dig in to this thing and see what's up with it!
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Yeah it was definitely hot haha gauge was pegged out at 250 for lord only knows how long so I’d say it was hotter than that. I didn’t let out till it started spark knocking 😳 that’s when I looked at my gauge and said oh sh@* she hot 🤦‍♂️. I never completed the oil change due to finding the needle bearings on the drain plug. Next step I will probably cut the oil filter and see what I find in there. Once I tear into the motor I’ll definitely keep y’all up dated! I’ll up load a Video later today of consistent throttle and the failed attempt of climbing cream puff in Harlan. (Where the overheat happened) thanks for the help!
 

@Croatan_Kid heres the video. I want to thank @77GreenMachine for the video! Also need to thank @Van-go for letting me know the buggy was hot once I found out it was hot (Add sarcasm).@Croatan_Kid you can here the “spark knock” or whatever you wan to call it right at the end of the video and then @Van-go yells “HEY! It’s HOT!”😂 always good times at 2:30am oh and my passenger was asleep for this entire attempt 😂
 
Will miller said:

@Croatan_Kid heres the video. I want to thank @77GreenMachine for the video! Also need to thank @Van-go for letting me know the buggy was hot once I found out it was hot (Add sarcasm).@Croatan_Kid you can here the “spark knock” or whatever you wan to call it right at the end of the video and then @Van-go yells “HEY! It’s HOT!”😂 always good times at 2:30am oh and my passenger was asleep for this entire attempt 😂
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I’m sorry for talking in the video🙄
Hey, in my video of me driving down cream puff (after making it up of course :flipoff2:) someone calls me an idiot. lol
Sounds like @Croatan_Kid offered to come tear into it with you and find the issue!
 
The parts in the pan would concern me, but I don't know that I wouldn't just go ahead and put some cheap oil and filter on it and see what it does. My aluminum 5.3 in the Jeep got hot out in Moab. Not as hot as you're describing but multiple cycles up to 240ish then cool and repeat. After the trip my oil pressure was not what it originally was, but an oil change brought it right back to where it used to be.
 
So I’d like to learn a little bit from this video. I’d initially think that something isn’t tuned right or maybe the exhaust is under sized for the engine to see it get that cherry red. I mean, it looked like you were giving it the beans a few times, but far from a 3 minute steady beat down. Mostly because I’m building my own buggy and if there’s something I need to put some more focus on.
 
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