Good grief - another Malaysian airlines 777 down

Um - did you read the article? Indications are that it was shit down. Not just a "lost plane".
That has nothing to do w MH and everything to suggest this could be a very big deal.
 
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i was just watching news and flipping between channels and I must say these reporters are idiots.. they are not stating facts they are just making shit up on who did it and why with no facts to back up anything they are saying..

this is the problem with the news today!
 
RatLabGuy said:
Um - did you read the article? Indications are that it was shit down. Not just a "lost plane".
That has nothing to do w MH and everything to suggest this could be a very big deal.
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Yep, I read it but it was 'just in' so figured it may well be wrong. Didn't want to put shot down in the title in case it turns out to be bullshit. Unfortunately I suspect this will become some major international cluster fuck.
 
My wife calls me and says " are you watching this!?"

I say ya, and it has nothing to do with us, and there's nothing we can/will do about it.
 
Here is the deal. No effing way should malaysia be routing flights over Ukraine. Russia has initiated an air war this month. Ukraine got a little jumpy on the surface to air trigger and hit a civilian plane. Whoops.

Russia will use this as propaganda as to why they are involved.

Remember, it was this kind of act that got U.S. involved in WWI with the sinking of Lusitania. The dirty secret is that we were using civilian ships to supply our allies. thats right. Human shields.

Someone said this could be a big deal. big 10-4 there!
 
Bogleparsons said:
My wife calls me and says " are you watching this!?"

I say ya, and it has nothing to do with us, and there's nothing we can/will do about it.
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23 Americans on that plane.

So....
 
Who ever said they shouldn't be flying over that airspace hit the nail on the head.

I am sorry American lives were lost but I don't think this means America needs to be further involved.
 
There's something that doesn't sit right with me about this (and not just that a plane with Americans and others on it is no longer). The plane was flying at 33,000 ft when hit, supposedly. That's well outside the range of most man-packed surface to air missiles and I highly doubt that either side would waste one that was capable of hitting a target that high up on a civilian airline. The fact that neither side is claiming responsibility in it also shouts out that it may have been brought down in some other way. Perhaps I'm reading too much into this, but something's not right.
 
From what I have seen, that weapons system takes about 2 years of training to be proficient on. It was either the Russians or the Russian backed separatists with direct support from the Russians. They have been shooting down Ukrainian cargo planes in the last few days. Maybe they picked the wrong target and got trigger happy. The reason nobody has claimed it is because they realized they F$%&*d up.
 
ManglerYJ said:
There's something that doesn't sit right with me about this (and not just that a plane with Americans and others on it is no longer). The plane was flying at 33,000 ft when hit, supposedly. That's well outside the range of most man-packed surface to air missiles and I highly doubt that either side would waste one that was capable of hitting a target that high up on a civilian airline. The fact that neither side is claiming responsibility in it also shouts out that it may have been brought down in some other way. Perhaps I'm reading too much into this, but something's not right.
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That's a pretty good point. Their Surface to air missiles have probably a 3-5km range I'd imagine. 33,000ft is about 10.5km, and that's if they are shooting straight up. I also doubt (but don't know for certain) they have a Patriot missile system or the equivalent that would have the range and targeting capabilities needed. hhhhmmmmm.
 
sgtbriangreen said:
From what I have seen, that weapons system takes about 2 years of training to be proficient on. It was either the Russians or the Russian backed separatists with direct support from the Russians. They have been shooting down Ukrainian cargo planes in the last few days. Maybe they picked the wrong target and got trigger happy. The reason nobody has claimed it is because they realized they F$%&*d up.
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But a Ukrainian (or Soviet) military cargo plane would most likely be flying at a significantly lower altitude than a commercial jet at cruising speed and altitude, especially that close to a contested border. This is either a ploy by the Ukrainian military to "force" us to get involved in "their" border dispute (like we always do), or it was an attempt to hijack another Malaysian 777. I think the two incidents are linked somehow. "just so happens" that both were Malaysian airlines.... hmmmmmmmmm.
 
It is being reported that these "boek" < spelling prolly wrong, missiles can actually reach 70k feet.

Also some of these missiles were just captured a couple weeks ago by the separatists and they have been shooting down Ukrainian cargo planes before this happened.

I also believe it was a big F-up.

I bet Putin is enjoying this shit.
 
ManglerYJ said:
But a Ukrainian (or Soviet) military cargo plane would most likely be flying at a significantly lower altitude than a commercial jet at cruising speed and altitude, especially that close to a contested border. This is either a ploy by the Ukrainian military to "force" us to get involved in "their" border dispute (like we always do), or it was an attempt to hijack another Malaysian 777. I think the two incidents are linked somehow. "just so happens" that both were Malaysian airlines.... hmmmmmmmmm.
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OR, their missile man is just a blundering idiot and not as smart as you.
 
The facts as being reported by Ukraine:
Separatists group out of donetsk has in their posession a Buk system.
Russian intelligence officers are implanted with the PRS.
RI officers communicated that a group of amateurs near donetsk hit the plane without knowing it was a civilian flight.
There were at first 23 americans on board. their are now only 2 being reported.


He is the thing. As sgt brian mentioned, it takes 2 years to train on these things. The missile system was 25km from the plane. maximum range on the BUK system is 30k. you are telling me amateurs with only weeks of hands on time figured out how to shoot down a plane at the extreme end of the weapons range? the phone calls indicate that the RI officers are just observing and not operating the equipment.

The intercepted phone calls have not been verified by anyone outside of Ukraine.

The last sighting of the PRS held BUK system was 500 miles away from the strike sight. Thats an 11 hour drive in good conditions. This is a war torn country where these guys are being hunted down and killed. AND you are towing a giant radar and rocket system.

The Ukrainians reported that the were not concerned about the PRS obtaining that system because it was INOPERABLE. So amateur freedom fighters commandeered, repaired, and figured out how to operate this system in a matter of a couple weeks?

The PRS called for a cease fire so an investigation can be done. Not the move of a guilty party. I'd just continue and make sure any investigation happens much much later when all the details start getting foggy and evidence get mucked with.

The plane crashed in grabovo. near the moldovian border. this isnt any where near donetsk and about 800km outside the range of the PRS BUK system.




Either there is A LOT of missing intel. or the Ukrainians are putting on the best propaganda and misdirection campaign ever.
 
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Reading Obama's message to the world on the matter.

We are down to half an american.

Obama called for a cease fire ....even though both sides have already agreed to one.

he promised an investigation. but no action.
 
half an American my his measurement. he demanded a ceasefire today, which both sides agreed to yesterday. He said there will be a investigation...but no promise of action for punishment. At this point it doesnt matter who fired the missile. If Ukraine did it to fake a russian violation like they committed in 1983, the wrong president is in the white house for that to work. If russia did it to test our metal and gauge our reaction i think they are on solid ground. Expect to see them ramp things up. If the PRS did it on accident. Oops. i dont think they have anything to worry about. Obama wont jump in to help Ukraine on the same grounds he hasnt helped yet...he is afraid to get involved with Russia. No matter the origin of this incident, it all ends with us doing nothing.
 
Here's the real story...

It's now being reported in Russian news sources that they (bad guys) used the Malaysian Airlines plane that went missing in March, filled it with corpses and then shot it down over Russian-controlled Eastern Ukraine so they could blame Russia for the tragedy.

:D
 
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