Heim joint steering info

[Fabrik8]

What's this?

Your first post had a link to safety washers. I'm assuming your Barnes kit probably comes with them too, but I would check.

When you have a Heim in single shear like the picture below, the (bright silver colored) safety washer prevents the Heim housing from slipping right over the bolt head if the Heim fails and the Heim housing pops off of the Heim ball or the race comes free from the housing.

You don't need this in double shear, because the parts of the mating joint would capture the Heim housing as they are already on both sides of the Heim.

So don't do this, where there is no safety washer. Notice the Heim housing could slip right over the bolt head if the ball popped free or the race came out of the housing. There goes the tie rod, free to roam around wherever it wants.

These 7/8 are the ball bearing ones so isn't that better along with being 7/8 size?

Heims are a spherical ball (with a hole through it) inside a spherical race. A single, big ball bearing basically. They are all like that.

 

[marty79]

They're "budget" rod ends with injected nylon liners. Dirt gets in there, tears up the nylon, the nylon falls out, and the joint is shot.

I think the ones I had previously had PTFE liners. Whatever it was, after five years on the steering links, you still couldn't turn the ball by hand.

Either way, I ordered a new set of JMX joints last night.

If your angles work with ball joints, run them. They're greasable, they have boots to keep shit out, and you can buy new ones at Autozone.

Good info thanks. My angles won't though so why I went heims..for this axle anyways. Later when I get a 60 I will get proper high steer arms but this axle not worth putting any money into.

 

[marty79]

Your first post had a link to safety washers. I'm assuming your Barnes kit probably comes with them too, but I would check.

When you have a Heim in single shear like the picture below, the (bright silver colored) safety washer prevents the Heim housing from slipping right over the bolt head if the Heim fails and the Heim housing pops off of the Heim ball.

You don't need this in double shear, because the parts of the mating joint would capture the Heim housing as they are already on both sides of the Heim.

So don't do this, where there is no safety washer. Notice the Heim housing could slip right over the bolt head if the ball popped free. There goes the tie rod, free to roam around wherever it wants.

Heims are a spherical ball (with a hole through it) inside a spherical race. A single, big ball bearing basically. They are all like that.

Wow good explanation, thank u that helped a bunch. I hope the Barnes kit has them and will post pics when I get em to make sure I have everything needed. Thank u very much

 

[ol'Jeeps]

X2 on safety washers...always!

Key here is don't run cheap crap heim joints off the internet! Run the Barnes chromo heims. That's all we sell and that's all we use ourselves!

 

[marty79]

X2 on safety washers...always!

Key here is don't run cheap crap heim joints off the internet! Run the Barnes chromo heims. That's all we sell and that's all we use ourselves!

The ones I got are the Barnes chromo 7/8 ones so I should be ok for 37s right?

 

[shawn]

Good info thanks. My angles won't though so why I went heims..for this axle anyways. Later when I get a 60 I will get proper high steer arms but this axle not worth putting any money into.

Rod ends are not automatically high clearance. You need to know the maximum operating angle for the joint, then select the joint and any high misalignment spacers based on that.

The 3/4" joints I bought last night were about $38/ea, not counting jam nuts, bolts, misalignment spacers, or safety washers. They should last much longer than the $15 joints they're replacing.

 

[ol'Jeeps]

The ones I got are the Barnes chromo 7/8 ones so I should be ok for 37s right?

I run 7/8" heims with tons and 42's!

 

[shawn]

The ones I got are the Barnes chromo 7/8 ones so I should be ok for 37s right?

Why did you buy joints if you don't know what the maximum angles are, haven't heard of a safety washer, and don't know if you'll need misalignment spacers?

 

[Chris_Keziah]

Why did you buy joints if you don't know what the maximum angles are, haven't heard of a safety washer, and don't know if you'll need misalignment spacers?

This is JF you're talking too.

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[marty79]

I run 7/8" heims with tons and 42's!

This is comforting...Yeii

Why did you buy joints if you don't know what the maximum angles are, haven't heard of a safety washer, and don't know if you'll need misalignment spacers?

Well said came with everything needed but the pipe for high clearance/angle applications so I guess I was "hoping" they would work...put the john fuller touch to it all and will def make it work lol lol

 

[Chuckman]

broke a 7/8 one ton Moog TRE this weekend in the middle between the taper pin and the lock nut after jumping a ledge and both tires ended up facing each other. only 37's so anything can break. no impact directly to the tie rod, just compression from the tires getting massive instant traction.

 

[Chuckman]

does anyone not tremble in fear that he doesn't know double / single shear terminology? and he's 'building' things, especially steering? dont really care what he does to himself, its that his rig will be traveling AT one of your families at a trail near you soon.

DOM is technically a pipe, but it's not 'pipe'. please somebody chime in on this before he makes a galvanized sch40 steering link very few metal suppliers I know have DOM just laying around in 1/4 wall, can't imagine what he's getting

 

[C.Berry]

I don't think fullers gonna build a trampoline tie rod with his new Barnes joints!? But if your gonna be hardcore and even at 37s and fab the shit the "fuller" way, ya might as well double shear the joints just to be safe it's basically two tabs for heim joint bolts to connect to instead of single shear and using a safety washer, cheap insurance in some cases single shear is only option I believe!?

 

[marty79]

does anyone not tremble in fear that he doesn't know double / single shear terminology? and he's 'building' things, especially steering? dont really care what he does to himself, its that his rig will be traveling AT one of your families at a trail near you soon.

DOM is technically a pipe, but it's not 'pipe'. please somebody chime in on this before he makes a galvanized sch40 steering link very few metal suppliers I know have DOM just laying around in 1/4 wall, can't imagine what he's getting

Dang calm down. Might not know proper terminology true, but if u keep an eye on my building of this rig, I'm making pretty good attempts to make it right or in better direction. And yes I don't understand all the hype about DOM tubing vs pipe and stuff but I know the steel shop that supplies my work sells it all and they will know. At the same token, 5/16wall tubing/pipe will suffice twice as good as any stock garbage steering I've always ran and the stock crap took quite the abuse so I'm not too worried about it. I've heard all the mathematics of pipe vs tubing, quite overwhelming to me but needless to say, many would agree 5/16wall pipe/tubing for steering is pretty darn beefy. But, DOM will be used for the steering!

 

[shawn]

Please plug weld the bungs.

 

[drkelly]

This is how I did it on my old cab truck:

I was basically mimicking this tie rod set up but with rod ends and put the rod ends on top of the knuckles:

 

[marty79]

Btw, does the drag link also have to be .250wall tubing or can it be the .120stuff?

 

[Chris_Keziah]

Personally I'd do it all out of .250 wall. Barnes or Ruffstuff sells dom rough cut for steering. Or you could just buy a stick of dom.

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[marty79]

Ok don't make fun lol, my first time building front leaf spring setup and steering for it and not familiar with angles and travel geometry while flexing so how does this look?
(I really don't want to put tie rod under knuckle if this setup will work..with some tweaking) thank u.
I chose the 1.25x1.25 1/4"wall because the shop was ready to cut DOM but several suggested this would be stronger and of course a lot cheaper so well, I bought it saving half the cost and dang, its beef!! So help on my drag link please and its ready for test drive..oh snap woohoo!!
Btw, the drag link is just an example of what I'm wanting to make so just pointing that out...only mock up

 

[Loganwayne]

1. That looks janky (but I've been drinking)
2. Round inserts in square tube not a great idea
3. Not enough separation between the drang link and tie rod
4 tie rod looks like it is to long you need to be able to adjust it in and our to get alignment right, if both sides are like the one pictured you have no inward adjustment bad idea.
5. That shit gonna brend/break where you weld the draglink to the square tubing

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[marty79]

1. That looks janky (but I've been drinking)
2. Round inserts in square tube not a great idea
3. Not enough separation between the drang link and tie rod
4 tie rod looks like it is to long you need to be able to adjust it in and our to get alignment right, if both sides are like the one pictured you have no inward adjustment bad idea.
5. That shit gonna brend/break where you weld the draglink to the square tubing

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Actually round insert in square tube = lot more room to weld it to each other.
Tie rod is perfect..my alignment is toed in 1/4" with enough for more.

And the drag link is ONLY a mock up..
#2point is my main question/concern though

 

[marty79]

And looks I could care less about, its plenty strong tie rod and drag link will be too.
Looking for idea on how to make drag link work with this if even possible... If not I guess mount that side of tie rod only under knuckle and drag link on top as @Jody Treadway has mentioned?

 

[Loganwayne]

Insert only has 4 main points of contact vs a round tube where there is 365 degree contact your suppose to create a v for the weld to flow in which you didn't do that is give the room for a strong weld

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[Loganwayne]

And looks I could care less about, its plenty strong tie rod and drag link will be too.
Looking for idea on how to make drag link work with this if even possible... If not I guess mount that side of tie rod only under knuckle and drag link on top as @Jody Treadway has mentioned?

That's the way it should have been done. Yes you have to get a high steer knuckle. But if done correctly you should be able to reuse it all on a 60

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[paradisePWoffrd]

At a min u need to plug weld the bungs. Also it might still bend as the diameter is small.

I wouldnt mount both on top like that unless you are doing double shear.

The leaf springs arent going to let the drag link clear underneath them. Turn the wheels completely to the right. I bet there isnt room to get a draglink straight to the pitman. Dont try any z-bar shit.