High(er) efficiency windows

RatLabGuy

RatLabGuy

You look like a monkey and smell like one too
Joined
May 18, 2005
Location
Churchville, MD
What's the current best bang-for-the-buck high efficiency window these days?
Is it really worth it?

Our house, a typical 1-story rancher from '67, has the original windows, and not surprisingly, they suck re: air flow. Every winter, when I can feel the draftiness around them, I think, maybe this is the year we'll replace them.
Yet when I do the math on the cost of replacing all of them - or even just the front-facing ones - it never seems worth it in comparison to a realistic energy savings, would take many years to pay it off.
I'm sure a big part of the problem is the space around the frame, which undoubtedly has no insulation and tons of gaps.
 
Everybody around here is singing the praises of window world windows.I think its a franchise and not a local place.
 
Maybe I should have included this:

I generally despise having contractors in my house. Unfortunately I've come to not trust them. Not for theft but not doing a 100% job.
I'm a reasonably handy guy and have done just about everything else, but never this. I don't mind doing it especially if that means I know it's be done right and not half assed (e.g. seal every crack etc while at it).
So I'd prefer to just buy them unless the savings is pretty small and I can be convinced it's just as much about the company/installers as the window designs. I've noticed a lot of window companies won't sell their materials w/o labor. I don't know how to interpret that... could be that they want to ensure it's installed right, but my suspicion is it's also just protecting their income.
 
If you want high efficiency, you're not going to get bang for the buck. Those are both relative concepts. I suspect you want a mid range window, with mid range efficiency. If you want high efficiency, you'll run away screaming when you get the price quote.
I know this, because I've been shopping for windows for a long time and want high efficiency windows. Let's just say that truck freight from Western Canada didn't even phase me compared to the total window cost. I'm still looking.
 
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What kind of windows are they? Double hung or casement? Things to look for is the gas or air fill between the glazing. Gas is better but not always worth the investment. Also look at the coating on the glass, low e is applied to the outside in warmer climates to prevent heat entering and in the colder climes it's applied to the inside to keep heat in. This can also hinder how "clear" the windows are. My folks over the last couple years have replaced the windows at their house (northern Michigan) due to drafts and efficiency. Theirs were Anderson's and they bought kits to retrofit the existing frames with new jam liners and window panels. The biggest part is the seals over time just collapse and also when you have them apart make sure there is good insulation between the window frame and the studs/header/sill plates of the house. A lot of time this small area gets over looked but it can cause a lot of draft issue. Easiest is to just fill the cavity with expandable foam out of the can.
 
$500-750 for a pro to do it (right) is not bad aside from the cost of the window itself. I considered doing them myself on this remodel but to replace 18 windows, the sub is charging $500. I'm not touching them for that.
 
rockcity said:
$500-750 for a pro to do it (right) is not bad aside from the cost of the window itself. I considered doing them myself on this remodel but to replace 18 windows, the sub is charging $500. I'm not touching them for that.
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Wow, that just seems really cheap for that much labor.
 
Fabrik8 said:
If you want high efficiency, you're not going to get bang for the buck. Those are both relative concepts. I suspect you want a mid range window, with mid range efficiency. If you want high efficiency, you'll run away screaming when you get the price quote.
I know this, because I've been shopping for windows for a long time.
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that is what I'm assuming. And what meant for best bang for the buck. The walls are just old R13, hell the attic was only R13 until I laid an extra layer of R30 over most of it. No doubt that super high efficiency in my windows would be pointless
 
Fabrik8 said:
Wow, that just seems really cheap for that much labor.
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I thought so as well but it will take him 2 days to do it. We even walked around and discussed everything and even pointed out the current replacement windows weren't done right or sealed right.

I'll be there doing other things as well so I can easily keep an eye on him.

This is the same guy that quoted a new metal roof installed for $216/square.

He did say he was doing it cheap. So I know he knows he is cheap at the moment. He answered all my questions right and all. So we shall see. :)
 
You may want to figure out what type of windows you want based on your style and the house style too. If you have narrow but tall windows for example, and they started out as 1960s aluminum, vinyl windows will completely transform the look of the house for the worse because the sashes are so wide and will make the viewable width a few inches smaller. Almost the same with wood or clad wood If that's the case, you may want a decent brand of fiberglass instead to keep the sight lines narrow.
Our house has an almost-twin in a different part of town by the same architect, and they did vinyl replacement windows. The aesthetics are ruined.

The part of me that really loves to spend money on shiny things wants some Inline, Alpen, or Fibertec windows. The realistic part of me says that they will wait until we build a new house and can make the house efficient enough to match the windows.
 
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Fabrik8 said:
You may want to figure out what type of windows you want based on your style and the house style too. If you have narrow but tall windows for example, and they started out as 1960s aluminum, vinyl windows will completely transform the look of the house for the worse because the sashes are so wide and will make the viewable width a few inches smaller. Almost the same with wood or clad wood If that's the case, you may want a decent brand of fiberglass instead to keep the sight lines narrow.
Our house has an almost-twin in a different part of town by the same architect, and they did vinyl replacement windows. The aesthetics are ruined.

The part of me that really loves to spend money on shiny things wants some Inline, Alpen, or Fibertec windows. The realistic part of me says that they will wait until we build a new house and can make the house efficient enough to match the windows.
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Another thing to consider,do you have a HOA?? They might have something to say about your choices.
 
If you were in NC I could point you to a supplier. We are in a 39 model house ( upgraded from the 1911 home we sold a few years ago) not a bit of insulation in or walls. I just upgraded all our windows over the winter. Made a big difference in comfort and noise. Energy savings is better but not night and day. Brand I used is sprouse windows. LowE double hung, all custom sized to openings @ 130 a piece. It was a lot more labor because all the lead paint was peeling from the trim so I replaced all of that too. I'd do it again. I've always heard that on older houses you don't get a fast return on investment because of all the other inefficiencies. But it'll cut down on drafts and improve comfort.


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My folks did their house a long while back, I'm thinking early '90's. 1956 ranch. Amazing the difference it made in comfort. Especially winter. Best improvement ever made to that house.

I helped a friend do his own replacements. Took half a day to figure out the first one. The others got done in one weekend. Not hard, once you figure it out.
 
RatLabGuy said:
And what meant for best bang for the buck. The walls are just old R13, hell the attic was only R13 until I laid an extra layer of R30 over most of it. No doubt that super high efficiency in my windows would be pointless
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How is the house clad, and what style window do you have now?

Keep in mind that most of the "window companies" are selling labor. If you want a window to install yourself, you have to go to the window supplier/manufacturer.
 
When we re did our house we had the gc do the windows in the new addition and then in the old part of the house we used window world. We actually like the window world ones better. Easier to use. Easier to tilt in to wash. Better construction. Etc. and the install guys where prompt and did a very nice job. I know they are all franchises but I would still recommend them.
 
My experience from putting windows in an older home (1943 or 53 depending on which record I look at). I started by going to Home Depot to replace one set of windows in my son's bedroom in about 1998. I looked at the in stock sizes and didn't find what I needed so the associate recommended ordering windows. He also said that the ones that they had special ordered were much better because the seams were welded and not overlapped so I bought two for that room. Removed the old windows and followed instructions. First one took about two hours, second one took maybe 30 minutes. The only thing i didn't do that a contractor would do was to wrap the outside wood in metal. I caulked and painted them and they are fine, actually great.
Moving forward I decided to do a total renovation and ordered replacement windows for the rest of the house. Once I started demo I kept finding rot and having to do major repairs so I stopped the replacement window order and ordered new construction windows, but still high quality. As I tore into walls I put insulation anywhere that I could so all but about 10' of walls are done.
The first two replacement windows that I put in are still just as sound as ever and are better than the new construction windows I bought.
A local supplier, Specialty Windows, Doors and Shower Glass | Charlotte, NC will make and sell you replacement windows made to your specs.
Two tips I have to offer, do not use spray foam to fill voids around windows, it expands too much and makes them hard to open and shut. Just stuff fiberglass insulation in there. Also use the best caulk made so it will last.
For what my house is, it is pretty tight. Is it energy efficient like newer homes? Not as much but I like my old house. It's updated and comfortable.
 
We used Pella Windows in our new house. We looked at a bunch of different ones, but I can't remember all the brands now. A little over three years later and I have zero complaints, and our energy bills are low despite having a lot of very large windows in the house..
 
Back in about 1999 or so (still in high school) I helped my daddy replace all of the windows in our house that was built in the early 70s. 13 windows. We did it all in 1 long day. First window took us about 2 hours, then about 45 mins each after that. I didn't ever pay attention to any energy savings, but I couldn't hear cars going down the road anymore.
 
Anyone here doing fiberglass windows in their house at all? Vinyl is not on our options list. I know the good stuff performs well and is very high quality (Inline, Alpen, etc.), but I'm curious about things like Pella fiberglass which is a completely different price point. I've already heard some sketchy things about the Marvin fiberglass (Integrity?).

Aluminum would be on the list too, but even the good thermally-broken units barely meet energy code (even for a casement) for a retrofit. It seems about the only way to do aluminum is for new construction, when it can become part of a whole-house energy balance.
 
We bought from window world. They were approx. 250 per window installed. They were gas filled double hung vinyl clad aluminum. We noticed a huge difference in the home as far as drafts and the power bill. When we sold the home the new owners paid the 50.00 transfer fee for the warranty. Warranty was great and even if your kid throws a ball through the window they replace it at no charge. My inlaws went with them after us and have been happy with them. We got the 50.00 referral fee as promised.
 
R Q said:
My experience from putting windows in an older home (1943 or 53 depending on which record I look at). I started by going to Home Depot to replace one set of windows in my son's bedroom in about 1998. I looked at the in stock sizes and didn't find what I needed so the associate recommended ordering windows. He also said that the ones that they had special ordered were much better because the seams were welded and not overlapped so I bought two for that room. Removed the old windows and followed instructions. First one took about two hours, second one took maybe 30 minutes. The only thing i didn't do that a contractor would do was to wrap the outside wood in metal. I caulked and painted them and they are fine, actually great.
Moving forward I decided to do a total renovation and ordered replacement windows for the rest of the house. Once I started demo I kept finding rot and having to do major repairs so I stopped the replacement window order and ordered new construction windows, but still high quality. As I tore into walls I put insulation anywhere that I could so all but about 10' of walls are done.
The first two replacement windows that I put in are still just as sound as ever and are better than the new construction windows I bought.
A local supplier, Specialty Windows, Doors and Shower Glass | Charlotte, NC will make and sell you replacement windows made to your specs.
Two tips I have to offer, do not use spray foam to fill voids around windows, it expands too much and makes them hard to open and shut. Just stuff fiberglass insulation in there. Also use the best caulk made so it will last.
For what my house is, it is pretty tight. Is it energy efficient like newer homes? Not as much but I like my old house. It's updated and comfortable.
Click to expand...


They make window and door spray foam that doesn't push as hard when it swells to prevent this.
 
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