Home water heater... tankless?

Can we all at least agree it’s not a hot water heater.... it’s just a water heater?
 
get the best ones you can buy. Ive helped more neighbors pull out junk instants, and replace with regular tanked units than I care to say. they bought 'consumer grade' units and they just dont cut it.

I'll never run one, thats for sure. I see them as a solution to a problem that isnt worth the trouble. dunno, old fashioned.
 
shawn said:
With a tank system, you can calculate how much hot water the tank can provide at a specific temperature delta for the first hour. If you exceed that capacity, you run out of hot water. It doesn't matter what the flow rate is, once it's gone it's gone.
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The hour rating is just an arbitrary number that is based on flow rate, Delta T, and acceptable temp drop. It has everything to do with flow rate, they just made it into a simple number so architects can understand it. :flipoff2:
 
Fabrik8 said:
The thermal buffer doesn't conserve energy though, it just stores energy. It still takes a specific amount of thermal energy to change the temp of water, regardless of how fast you do it. You're not saving energy by heating the water at a lower rate with a smaller heater on a tanked unit.
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Relative to a tankless system, it conserves energy, especially for smaller consumption needs. Heating a gallon of water to cook a pot of noodles will require a tankless system to heat a gallon of water from cold to full hot at 40 amps or whatever for 30 seconds or more. With a tank system using a gallon of hot may not even bring on the elements in a 50 gallon tank. Theoretically, the energy required to heat a gallon of water should be equal in the overall scheme of things, but the tankless never conserves the water it has heated, whereas a tank system does.
 
UTfball68 said:
I’m going to take a cold shower after a few loads of laundry, the dishwasher has run, the two girls get a bath and the wife takes a bath in the jacuzzi tub....
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Dishwashers often make their own hot water, just have a single tap of cold off of the sink supply.

I've seen several mentions of laundry being part of the issue too. I find this interesting... we only use hot water for a small percent of our laundry. Modern detergents do a fine job w/ cold.
We avoid running those things at the same time as the shower just to avoid poor pressure.
 
Caver Dave said:
Actually, it's "Domestic Water Heater"... to differentiate it from other types
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Valid...those international water heaters take forever for the water to get hot when you want to wash your hands...but that Lebanese water does wonders for my skin.
 
RatLabGuy said:
Dishwashers often make their own hot water, just have a single tap of cold off of the sink supply.

I've seen several mentions of laundry being part of the issue too. I find this interesting... we only use hot water for a small percent of our laundry. Modern detergents do a fine job w/ cold.
We avoid running those things at the same time as the shower just to avoid poor pressure.
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I won’t pretend like I understand how my hot water works to the extent some of the guys do...I just know when a lot of things have been using it, my shot at a hot shower are slim to none. As for pressure, I can’t say I notice a discernible difference either, but all I really care about is the soap rinsing off.
 
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jeepinmatt said:
Relative to a tankless system, it conserves energy, especially for smaller consumption needs. Heating a gallon of water to cook a pot of noodles will require a tankless system to heat a gallon of water from cold to full hot at 40 amps or whatever for 30 seconds or more. With a tank system using a gallon of hot may not even bring on the elements in a 50 gallon tank. Theoretically, the energy required to heat a gallon of water should be equal in the overall scheme of things, but the tankless never conserves the water it has heated, whereas a tank system does.
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Nothing is conserved. The tanked unit has already heated the water to get the entire tank to temperature setpoint, so the energy has already been used. The tankless unit just uses the energy at time of use. When you use the energy to heat the water does not change the amount of energy needed to heat the water.

What you're saying is this: You go on a trip. You start with a full tank of gas. The trip was short and you didn't have to fill up during the trip, and because you didn't have to fill up your car hasn't consumed any gas.
Is there something not-quite-right there? ;)
 
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Either some of you bastards lose every battle with your spouse and have to "make up your manhood and regain self righteousness and sense of worth" here, or you're the same "has to have the last word even if you're wrong" asshole self to your spouse. Either way, God help her :flipoff2:
 
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Fabrik8 said:
Nothing is conserved. The tanked unit has already heated the water to get the entire tank to temperature setpoint, so the energy has already been used. The tankless unit just uses the energy at time of use. When you use the energy to heat the water does not change the amount of energy needed to heat the water.

What you're saying is this: You go on a trip. You start with a full tank of gas. The trip was short and you didn't have to fill up during the trip, and because you didn't have to fill up your car hasn't consumed any gas.
Is there something not-quite-right there? ;)
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Yeah, the gas tank isn't leaking. A tankless heater is like a leaking gas tank, overfilling and leaking out a little every time. If you're hung up on my usage of the term "conserve" then assume it's adiabatic.:shaking:
 
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CasterTroy said:
Either some of you bastards lose every battle with your spouse and have to "make up your manhood and regain self righteousness and sense of worth" here, or you're the same "has to have the last word even if you're wrong" asshole self to your spouse. Either way, God help her :flipoff2:
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:flipoff2: how do you know my wife?
 
RatLabGuy said:
I've seen several mentions of laundry being part of the issue too. I find this interesting... we only use hot water for a small percent of our laundry. Modern detergents do a fine job w/ cold.
We avoid running those things at the same time as the shower just to avoid poor pressure.
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Cold water laundry is about half the reason we have a bed bug infestation in this country. That, and nobody does a spring cleaning down to the baseboards every year.


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Tankless units don’t experience standby loss, storage units do.

If you’re a fiscal user of hot water like myself and just don’t use it that often, it makes sense to use a DWH that experiences no loss.

And the extra storage space is great.
 
kaiser715 said:
Cold water laundry is about half the reason we have a bed bug infestation in this country. That, and nobody does a spring cleaning down to the baseboards every year.


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Doesn’t The heat in the dryer kills bedbugs?

Spring cleaning was to rid houses of the soot from coal burning furnaces at the end of the heating season. If you clean your home regularly it shouldn’t be an issue.

If your heating system is filling your house with soot, you have far bigger issues than the long term economics of a water heater.

I’m just here for the show....
 
kaiser715 said:
Cold water laundry is about half the reason we have a bed bug infestation in this country. That, and nobody does a spring cleaning down to the baseboards every year.


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1 - I don't have bed bugs so that's not a worry here ;-)
2 - Killing them requires sustained temps of 120+ for 10+ minutes... which you may or may not ever get using your pure hot water setting, depending solely on how people keep the stats set to, but you never would using the "warm" setting which most people use anyway.... but you definitely DO get running a normal dryer on its hot setting - so whats going on w/ the washer is irrelevant anyway....
3 - that still only accounts for a small % of the things to be washed in a house. I'm not wasting the energy (or risk of a cold shower) for a problem that doesn't exist while also risking setting stains or shrinking clothes. We run hot water when it's called for.
 
I went tankless and I'm happy with it. It freed up some space in my basement and works just as good as my old electric water heater.

I only shower once a week and wash clothes with cold water.
 
About the Anode rod. Who Has changed one, & How? I've know about them for years, but when I looked into changing one, it became Unrealistic!. I found the hole, listed in the parts manual. Opened it & worked for a while trying to dig the insulation/foam out of it. Finally said Frick it! Few years later, it rusted out the bottom. I yanked the tank out, & Completely stripped the outer metal skin. More fricking Foam around it than insulation blanket. When I got to the rod, I couldn't break it loose. Guess it was rusted in. Never messed with another.
 
rodney eppes said:
About the Anode rod. Who Has changed one, & How? I've know about them for years, but when I looked into changing one, it became Unrealistic!. I found the hole, listed in the parts manual. Opened it & worked for a while trying to dig the insulation/foam out of it. Finally said Frick it! Few years later, it rusted out the bottom. I yanked the tank out, & Completely stripped the outer metal skin. More fricking Foam around it than insulation blanket. When I got to the rod, I couldn't break it loose. Guess it was rusted in. Never messed with another.
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I replaced mine late last summer. The WH is about 4 years old, rated as a 7 year model. I was doing some other work on it and it occurred to me I hadn't checked it since I installed it.
It was pretty stuck (from rust), but came out - took a giant ass socket, like a 27mm or something. That rod was almost completely gone, like down to a tiny rusted sliver. No way the WH would have lasted another year at that rate.

Other that being stuck, it shouldn't be that hard to get to - not sure why you'd have to remove any insulation? Usually they are mounted from the top. On mine (a GE) the bolt is counter sunk into a hole a little bit, so a socket is the only way to get it, but it's definitely accessible.
 
RatLabGuy said:
I replaced mine late last summer. The WH is about 4 years old, rated as a 7 year model. I was doing some other work on it and it occurred to me I hadn't checked it since I installed it.
It was pretty stuck (from rust), but came out - took a giant ass socket, like a 27mm or something. That rod was almost completely gone, like down to a tiny rusted sliver. No way the WH would have lasted another year at that rate.

Other that being stuck, it shouldn't be that hard to get to - not sure why you'd have to remove any insulation? Usually they are mounted from the top. On mine (a GE) the bolt is counter sunk into a hole a little bit, so a socket is the only way to get it, but it's definitely accessible.
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Yes! If I remember right, there was 1 1/2 - 2 " of sprayed foam, on top & sides of tank. Try digging through that. Then the Rod was countersunk. I' thinking the access hole, wasn't large enough to get a socket through. It was a Bastard. I may check the one I have now, but it's only a year old. Last unit lasted about 7 1/2 years, with a 8 yr. warranty. A O Smith, which covers Lowe's now, replaced it free of charge! Nothing was ever said or asked about the rod or maintenance.
 
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