House Bill 2

CLRracer said:
If a societal norm has become law, then yes someone can be punished under it. But your example of the F Justin shirt and being fired or asked to leave both take place on private property where the owners can (or at least should) be able to do what they want. The school example is a good example of social norms creating ordinances, but it still can cause issues over whether an ordinance trumps a right (free speech vs rules against profanity) in a public setting. Getting arrested for profanity is a reaaaaaaaaal stretch there, but I have seen more stupid things happen. And yes, I agree 100% that there should be a call for modesty, but can/should there be a legal precedent/law for modesty? Who gets to set that up? What you and I deem modest are different. There are already indecent exposure laws, is that enough or should there be more? IMO the last thing we need are more laws telling us what we can and cannot do.

Duane
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I agree completely... Public schools aren't so public. They are actually private establishments. That is how they get around telling you what you can/cant wear, freedom of speech, searching lockers/bags/cars, etc.

broncosbybart said:
Well, I hadn't read the bill. Don't care all that much. My main concern would be locker rooms/showers/etc. Especially at school level. Any input on what the bill does or doesn't say about that? Or what the one the Charlotte council voted for said about that?

A male should not be allowed into a female locker room anywhere. I sincerely doubt the opposite would ever happen.
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I would have to re-read it but believe they fall under the same as a bathroom. I actually tried to find the Charlotte ordinance, and haven't been successful online. Just news articles talking about it being passed.

superman27344 said:
I think "First in Hate" has a nicer ring to it, lol.
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If we go by the 2nd part of the bill, Mississippi has us beat on that one.
 
CLRracer said:
If a societal norm has become law, then yes someone can be punished under it. But your example of the F Justin shirt and being fired or asked to leave both take place on private property where the owners can (or at least should) be able to do what they want. The school example is a good example of social norms creating ordinances, but it still can cause issues over whether an ordinance trumps a right (free speech vs rules against profanity) in a public setting. Getting arrested for profanity is a reaaaaaaaaal stretch there, but I have seen more stupid things happen. And yes, I agree 100% that there should be a call for modesty, but can/should there be a legal precedent/law for modesty? Who gets to set that up? What you and I deem modest are different. There are already indecent exposure laws, is that enough or should there be more? IMO the last thing we need are more laws telling us what we can and cannot do.

Duane
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So should I be concerned about walking into court with my F Justin shirt? Hell I can't even wear a ball cap into court and I identify as a baseball player.

ManglerYJ said:
After reading HB2 and the initial Charlotte Ordinance that got the whole thing started, it's pretty obvious to me that 99.9% of the hysteria over this thing is all based on assumption. (myself included). There is so much misinformation about both that it's not even funny.

I think the part that scares me is the vagueness of the term "sexual identity" and the protection of it. With my "sexual identity" protected as a non-discriminatory characteristic, can I "identify" as a male dog and piss on a fire hydrant? Can I identify as a woman today and a man tomorrow because today I'm at the mall and the women's restroom is closer and cleaner, but tomorrow I'll be at the ball game and there is no line in the men's room?
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This is my question too. At some point someone will identify as a dog and shit in my yard. Will it be legal to then tie them up in the back yard and smack their nose with a rolled up newspaper?
 
Why does any of this even matter? Transgender people are going to use the bathroom they identify with whether the bill exists or not. Is someone standing outside of every public restroom checking birth certificates? Do we have a genital identification scanner outside of them now? Most sexual assault occurring in a restroom involves men and young boys in the men's room anyways. If this is such a giant issue, remove public restrooms where they are not required by law to be, and where they are required make it a single toilet unisex where only one person gets to use it at a time.

What pisses me off is the blatant waste of tax payer money on some garbage issue that really wasn't a problem before while we have crumbling infrastructure and a terrible failing education system. $43,000 to hold the special session. 43k might not realistically be that much money but where does the waste stop? Now we have to fight this in federal court for no particular reason, and we are almost certainly going to have to hire outside counsel because Cooper won't defend it (which is his legal right to do as the bill is clearly on questionable constitutional grounds). The cost to fight it will be enormous in both hard dollar cost and lost business revenue.
 
GotWood said:
So should I be concerned about walking into court with my F Justin shirt? Hell I can't even wear a ball cap into court and I identify as a baseball player.
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While I don't think the bailiff will arrest you for it, if the judge doesn't rule in your favor I wouldn't act surprised lmao.

Duane
 
I've read the % of peeps who want legal rights to use the facilities of their choice or opposite sex is about .003 of the population. What happened to majority rules ? If we're gonna make profound changes about who and where we pee or poop I think separate youth and adult facilities would be better than anything goes (no pun intended) unisex facilities w more than one toilet.
 
mommucked said:
I've read the % of peeps who want legal rights to use the facilities of their choice or opposite sex is about .003 of the population. What happened to majority rules ? If we're gonna make profound changes about who and where we pee or poop I think separate youth and adult facilities would be better than anything goes (no pun intended) unisex facilities w more than one toilet.
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When you read the text of the bills it's less about which facility you use as it is making "sexual identity" the letter of the law to be a protected term in terms of discrimination. The vagueness of the term opens the door to so many things that makes my head spin. Once it's put in place, it's hard to undo or further clarify. Does sexual identity mean only man identifying as woman, woman identifying as man, or does it go further? Would this woman then have full rights to do as she pleases because she "self identifies" as wanting to have sex with a dog?

South Carolina Woman Charged Having Sex with Dog After Selfie Videos Discovered - Breitbart

That's just the tip of the iceberg of a VERY slippery slope we are creating just to appease a very small portion of the population.
 
ManglerYJ said:
Does sexual identity mean only man identifying as woman, woman identifying as man, or does it go further? Would this woman then have full rights to do as she pleases because she "self identifies" as wanting to have sex with a dog?
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People used that same argument about expanding gay marriage. Saying well what happens if a man now wants to marry a dog? Seriously.... At least use a somewhat logical argument

mommucked said:
What happened to majority rules ?
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Who is the majority that has a problem with this? Also, our country has always been about equality for all (well other than sometimes that we like to now forget about and laws that were overturned). "With liberty and justice for all"
 
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why shouldn't people be able to marry dogs.

I dont give a shit who you marry, or who/what you have sex with (unless it belongs to me)
 
Bogleparsons said:
(unless it belongs to me)
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I don't care what you do to yourself as long as it does not infringe on my rights. "Your rights end where mine begin"
 
DSM Turbos said:
Also, our country has always been about equality for all (well other than sometimes that we like to now forget about and laws that were overturned). "With liberty and justice for all"
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I dont care about which bathroom whomever or whatever uses. I care greatly about the mockery of the Constitution that I feel this Administration is continuing to make.

That said here is where your ideal falls hollow.

I should have the equity to safely use a restroom without worrying about someone in there trying to perv a peek on my junk. Where is the line?

I'll say it again, the ONLY way to provide bathroom equality for all is to
a) eliminate public restrooms altogether
b) make all public restrooms unisex.
 
Ron said:
I should have the equity to safely use a restroom without worrying about someone in there trying to perv a peek on my junk. Where is the line?
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So we need to make gay men go to the womens bathroom?




(don't mind me, just trolling at work)
 
jeepinmatt said:
So we need to make gay men go to the womens bathroom?
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It's been my experience, that gay men pose zero threat to women in a bathroom environment. Except maybe to help them reapply their make-up and fix their hair. (perpetuating the troll)
 
Anybody been to Target lately ?


target.jpg
 
Ron said:
I should have the equity to safely use a restroom without worrying about someone in there trying to perv a peek on my junk. Where is the line?

I'll say it again, the ONLY way to provide bathroom equality for all is to
a) eliminate public restrooms altogether
b) make all public restrooms unisex.
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I agree that everybody shouldn't have to worry about somebody being a perv in a bathroom. It is a slippery slope, I do agree. However I think this law is just dumb.
 
If anyone wants to piss or poo in the bathroom in my shop, they are welcome to regardless of whatever/whomever/however they identify, dress or look.
The fact it smells like burnt gear oil and looks like the bathroom from the movie Saw keeps traffic to a minimum currently.
 
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Some days I feel like the kid who saw that the Emperor was naked. Am I the only one who recognizes the absurdity of "I'm different than you, and you must treat me the same, but I'm going to determine what that treatment is, because I'm different - the same as you."

My biggest issue with this whole issue isn't the issue, but the issue that has been made of the issue.
 
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Ron said:
I should have the equity to safely use a restroom without worrying about someone in there trying to perv a peek on my junk. Where is the line?
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You are currently this safe:



Without HB2, you will be this safe:



Just stirring the pot with a little Jim Carrey this morning. :) You're welcome.
 
I work for a school system and this law is in my area. I would have liked for the wording on providing a alternative bathroom for those requesting accommodations to be a bit stronger. It just says nothing will prevent them from offering alternative accommodations. There are lots of kids that need some protection from the multiple occupancy bathroom. Whether they are straight, gay, transgender, male or female. There are lots of students that struggle with bathroom issues. I've seen straight A students fail Health/PE because they refuse to dress out or go in the locker room. I've seen kids nearly hurt themselves because they will not use a school bathroom. There needs to be a safe place for them to use the bathroom.

The biggest problem with the whole thing is Straight Males. There is no doubt that the Straight Male is the biggest threat to women and the LBGTQ crowd. The whole problem is that we think that by allowing transgender people to use the bathroom of their sexual identity we are some how allowing straight men to use the women's bathroom. The problem is not a transgender (fe)male, he's not going to be a threat to the other women. (S)he is going to try to get in and out as quickly and as quietly as possible. But, what we might see is a straight male predator imposing as a female just to get access to the bathroom to cause harm to women. The problem is that people are belittling what a true transgender person is going through. Just as strongly as I identify myself as a straight male they do the same from whatever they believe. By, thinking that a man dressed up as a women is the same as a transgender female we are hurting the whole thing.

I do believe however that there is a huge difference in a public school locker room/bathroom and a public bathroom. There are huge issues with students in bathrooms unrelated gender. Generally, students who are left unsupervised are going to create chaos at will. I believe those students should go to the bathroom of their biological sex and if it is a multiple occupancy bathroom should be supervised by a like gender adult. Those students who need to use a separate facility for whatever reason should be afforded that accommodation.
 

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