Inlaws going through separation.

RatLabGuy said:
My parents have "long term care insurance." A premium you pay now that pays for your care if needed.
I'd never heard of it until Dad mentioned it. At the time I thought, Jeez what a scam.
Then he showed me the bills from Grandmother's care the last few years of her life, and what its costing my aunt after my uncle's stroke, and now I totally get it.

Dad is a pretty smart guy and realized how quickly the estate would be drained, and thats his hedge against it w/o being rich.
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My parents have it too, with a policy that covers fulltime in home care. My mom worked in home health her whole career, and saw what the care/Medicare costs were.
 
kaiser715 said:
The ABSOLUTE LAST place you want a loved one to be is in a medicaid funded situation. Most/many private nursing homes/assisted living don't take medicaid patients. Go visit a medicaid level home one day...you won't like it. My mom's assisted living ran over 5k/month. Another relative had to have skilled nursing, at over 12k/month. Getting old ain't cheap.
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I was thinking more of the independent living types. There are a few around here that are pretty nice, more like a retirement community, but I'm sure they are private pay.

Also, wasnt really sure what her disability/condition really is. Sounds like maybe her limitations might be more mental/ emotional vs physical? I'm also assuming that she doesn't drive?

@Cherokeekid88
This reminds me a little of my aunt. She was never married, or disabled, but she had medical issues as a child that affected her learning abilities. She lived with my grandmother her whole life, until her mom passed away. At ~50 she had to learn to be independent. She didn't drive, and was used to things being done for her. My parents helped her find a townhouse in a small "retirement" community. My mom spent alot of time teaching/telling/helping her learn to do things for herself, and taking her to appointments and such. In the last few years, she has gotten a Medicare plan that includes Uber transportation to her appointment, and taught her how to use walmart+ to get her groceries delivered.
 
RatLabGuy said:
My parents have "long term care insurance." A premium you pay now that pays for your care if needed.
I'd never heard of it until Dad mentioned it. At the time I thought, Jeez what a scam.
Then he showed me the bills from Grandmother's care the last few years of her life, and what its costing my aunt after my uncle's stroke, and now I totally get it.

Dad is a pretty smart guy and realized how quickly the estate would be drained, and thats his hedge against it w/o being rich.
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Somebody just kill me when I get to that point and we can save some money 😂
 
First and foremost, you need to protect yourself (mentally/emotionally) and strongly encourage your wife to do the same. This situation has been decades in the making and neither your family or your BIL’s family have the ability to resolve it.
For your own sanity, stay the hell away from the situation entirely. You have no obligation to get involved and there is no upside for your involvement. Let me explain…

Regardless of whether the divorce happens or she moves back in with Dad, this situation only gets better if Mom is willing and able to put in the work to fix/take care of herself. She WILL need outside help for this, but she HAS to get it herself. The only thing you could do that might help push the process along is provide the aforementioned tough love, but you’ll have to stick to your guns and it will be stressful. Mom and/or Dad may not like this (even if it is their best interest) and it may ruin the relationship you have with them and be for naught in the end anyway. As much as we wish we could sometimes, we can’t make someone change against their own will.

Even if all the above mental/emotional stuff happens, Mom needs to be honest with herself about the financial situation. She needs to account for what all this is going to cost and, end the end, does divorce make sense at this point in time. Most people can’t or won’t look at this objectively.

Let me reiterate: This is a lose-lose situation. Even if you do the ‘right’ thing, you’ll likely get shat on. At most, be a shoulder to cry on or maybe encourage Mom and/or Dad to get professional help. Otherwise, back away.
 
I’ve seen three family members go into assisted living. Two had money saved, the other was Medicare/mecicaid. Stark contrast between the two facilities. One was basically a hotel room at a resort. The other was pretty much a hospital room you shared with another person divided by a curtain. One felt somewhat enjoyable, the other felt like you were waiting to die. I’d rather check out than spend my last days in a Medicare facility. Maybe they’re not all like that, but this one was rough.
 
you really have two different issues.

one is the divorce.

the other is what to do with your mother in law. Having and currently dealing with my wifes aunt going into a assisted living place for someone with major brain injury and seeing the tole its taken on her parents trying to take care of her aunt before realizing that they coudnt keep taking care of her. Its going to be a real struggle for your family.

I remember you saying your wife wanted to work from home. If your mother in law is in true need of a full time care giver or to help her get into an assisted living place. there are programs and grants that can be given to find one for her, this could be your wife if she takes a few classes and goes through the process and she would "work" for the company but would be the care giver for her mother. This option was given to my inlaws but my mother in law had already been a part time care giver to a family friend and she knew she couldnt handle her sister in law long term.
 
Ron said:
Sorry - but from this description she sounds like a manipulative POS.

You've skirted around it a few times, can you say what her disability is?
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She had her colon removed when she was in her 30's.

RatLabGuy said:
Starting to sound to me like MIL might need some serious tough love pushing from the nest.
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jeepinmatt said:
And some serious therapy
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100%
Someone else on here said that she likes being served and things being done for her because that is what she is used to at least for the last 5 years or so. Ironically, this all started going down hill when my FIL retired. She used to be able to get up/sleep when she wanted to as long as she was up and got the kitchen and house cleaned before he got home. Then it was almost like when he retired, she didn't want to be around him all the time because he was spending more time drinking now, he would just verbally abuse her constantly and I think she made herself sick and locked herself up in her room to escape him and when you do that day after day, it takes a huge toll on your body and mind.
BIGWOODY said:
I read it all and had this in the back of my head the entire read (although I felt like an asshole for doing so). She needs therapy with or without him. Sounds like there's been a helluva lot of enabling going on from everyone involved. I've witnessed situations just like this and sometimes you got to pull them off the teet so they'll get on their feet. Sorry , this may sound cold but the first thing I'd do is nothing for awhile.
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This is also 100% facts. Everyone in their family just avoided upsetting my FIL, so no one said anything to him, so his behavior was left unchecked.

RatLabGuy said:
^^ if he has everything and she has nothing, that means that any outcome in the divorce means he has everything to lose and nothing to gain, she has nothing to lose and everything to gain.
His gamble is only that she can't muster the resources to make it happen (or really wants it to happen)

As the details unravel more, it is increasingly clear that you should really be asking yourselves what she really wants and what the rest of you consider to be viable for afterwards.
It sounds to me like she doesn't really want independence at all. In fact I'd wager even if she got a massive settlement and won the lottery and could move out and live on her own she wouldn't. What she craves is attention and being served and the only solution she'd be happy with that isn't a family member taking care of her is enough cash to pay for full time in-home care from some poor soul.
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This is the question I asked yesterday. Apparently my MIL doesn't want a divorce. She just wants help and money to live on and hopefully want to move out of their basement and into her own place. I have told my wife exactly what you said about not doing anything for a little while and make her fend for herself which in turn teaches her to be more independent.


BIGWOODY said:
I can't help but wonder at what point did he become an alcoholic? I'd have a hard time not going down that path just to cope.
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He's always been an alcoholic from what I've been told. He started drinking when he was super young and took a few breaks when my wife was little, but I've known him for 17 years and its always been an issue. Hidden diet mnt dew bottles filled with wine all over the house hidden. Diet mnt dew bottles of wine in his lunch box to enjoy on the drive home from work...

braxton357 said:
Yeah, I'd imagine the brother/sister in law after 6 months are starting to see things from both sides now.
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Absolutely. They are tired of the MIL not pulling any type of weight around there but they are also tired of not getting any help at all from the FIL.
Andy J. said:
First and foremost, you need to protect yourself (mentally/emotionally) and strongly encourage your wife to do the same. This situation has been decades in the making and neither your family or your BIL’s family have the ability to resolve it.
For your own sanity, stay the hell away from the situation entirely. You have no obligation to get involved and there is no upside for your involvement. Let me explain…

Regardless of whether the divorce happens or she moves back in with Dad, this situation only gets better if Mom is willing and able to put in the work to fix/take care of herself. She WILL need outside help for this, but she HAS to get it herself. The only thing you could do that might help push the process along is provide the aforementioned tough love, but you’ll have to stick to your guns and it will be stressful. Mom and/or Dad may not like this (even if it is their best interest) and it may ruin the relationship you have with them and be for naught in the end anyway. As much as we wish we could sometimes, we can’t make someone change against their own will.

Even if all the above mental/emotional stuff happens, Mom needs to be honest with herself about the financial situation. She needs to account for what all this is going to cost and, end the end, does divorce make sense at this point in time. Most people can’t or won’t look at this objectively.

Let me reiterate: This is a lose-lose situation. Even if you do the ‘right’ thing, you’ll likely get shat on. At most, be a shoulder to cry on or maybe encourage Mom and/or Dad to get professional help. Otherwise, back away.
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This is the hard part. I try to be the rational one and keep my wife calm and let her know that with some work, this situation has potential to get better, even though I do have a hard time convincing myself of that sometimes. My wife is very attached to her parents even though her childhood was good I guess, but not great. She mainly remembers her Dad drinking and treating her mom like chit. I also feel like I've set back and not really let my feelings be heard with my wife as well and just sort of brushed it off when she brings it up, sort of just to let her get it off her chest and listen, but also not harp on it so she can learn to not let all this live rent free in her mind 24/7. But now, I feel like my wife and her brother are now looking for help from me and my SIL to help them figure out the next course of action and seeing all this stuff unfold, its hard to keep quiet, but I know that we really need to take a step back and let the 2 adults who are heavily involved work this out.
 
Cherokeekid88 said:
This is the question I asked yesterday. Apparently my MIL doesn't want a divorce. She just wants help and money to live on and hopefully want to move out of their basement and into her own place. I have told my wife exactly what you said about not doing anything for a little while and make her fend for herself which in turn teaches her to be more independent.
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So what exact kind of marriage does she want to her husband then? Just financial support and doesn't want to live with him at all or really talk or be around him?

They need couples counseling
 
Cherokeekid88 said:
This is the question I asked yesterday. Apparently my MIL doesn't want a divorce. She just wants help and money to live on and hopefully want to move out of their basement and into her own place. I have told my wife exactly what you said about not doing anything for a little while and make her fend for herself which in turn teaches her to be more independent.
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Sooo... she wants to live completely independent of him but still be married? How does that work?

Definitely a sign of an emotional dependence problem.
 
DSM Turbos said:
So what exact kind of marriage does she want to her husband then? Just financial support and doesn't want to live with him at all or really talk or be around him?

They need couples counseling
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He's all she knows. It's the idea of him being "gone" that she is petrified of.
This is a variant of Stockholm syndrome.
 
DSM Turbos said:
So what exact kind of marriage does she want to her husband then? Just financial support and doesn't want to live with him at all or really talk or be around him?

They need couples counseling
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I think she feels like she can't live without him...financially. They are so dependent on each other in the worse way. Unfortunately as well, I think she knows that between the two of them, she is going to have to be the one to change because I can tell you that this man is not going to. In his mind, he has never done anything wrong and he is the way he is and everyone else better adapt to it.
 
Other than the colonectomy and presumably a colostomy bag, does she have any other impairments?

I mean - that in and of itself - shouldn’t prevent her from working and caring for herself.

I have a 59 year old employee with a permanent colostomy bag who crawls on equipment as a repair technician daily. Sure he has some precautions but nothing that prevents a normal life.

I always wonder in these situations if the limitations is concrete or only in the persons mind.

Ultimately MIL has two choices. 1) she learns to fend, provide and care for herself. 2) she stays dependent on care and provenience form others. If she chooses 2 - accepting the limitations and consequences of that choice are her decision.

From reading just your descriptions here - I feel like you paint the FIL as evil incarnate…and I get the impression that may be over stated. Now certainly I don’t know any of the players involved. And you’ve painted a clear picture of a highly functional alcoholic. Despite a few car wrecks (which haven’t been fully defined as being alcohol caused) dude managed to maintain a job until retirement - despite your assertion that he’s been an alcoholic forever. I would only posit that it’s very very rare for a true alcoholic to not progress to the point of destitution eventually.

Like someone mentioned above - I smell a bunch of co-dependency and blaming from both sides.
 
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Cherokeekid88 said:
I think she feels like she can't live without him...financially. They are so dependent on each other in the worse way. Unfortunately as well, I think she knows that between the two of them, she is going to have to be the one to change because I can tell you that this man is not going to. In his mind, he has never done anything wrong and he is the way he is and everyone else better adapt to it.
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She doesn't seem like she is going to change either.
 
Ron said:
Other than the colorectomy and presumably a colostomy bag, does she have any other impairments?

I mean that in and of itself shouldn’t prevent her from working and caring for herself.
I have a 59 year old employee with a permanent colostomy bag who crawls on equipment as a repair technician daily. Sure he has some precautions but nothing that prevents a normal life.

I always wonder in these situations if the limitations is concrete or only in the persons mind.

Ultimately MIL has two choices. 1) she learns to fend, provide and care for herself. 2) she stays dependent on care and provenience form others. If she chooses 2 - accepting the limitations and consequences of that choice are her decision.

From reading just your descriptions here - I feel like you paint the FIL as evil incarnate…and I get the impression that may be over stated. Now certainly I don’t know any of the players involved. And you’ve painted a clear picture of a highly functional alcoholic. Despite a few car wrecks (which haven’t been fully defined as being alcohol caused) dude managed to maintain a job until retirement - despite your assertion that he’s been an alcoholic forever. I would only posit that it’s very very rare for a true alcoholic to not progress to the point of destitution eventually.

Like someone mentioned above - I smell a bunch of co-dependency and blaming from both sides.
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Physically? No. Not that I know of. I also believe her to be a hypochondriac. I have always told my wife and her brother this... 85% of her problem is mental. She believes that she can't, so she doesn't. The car wrecks have not been proven to be alcohol related, you're right, but we just speculate that they are because of him hiding them from everyone for a while till we saw the car and how he set up a whole sitting area with plants, chairs, table in the driveway where no one could pull beside the car in the driveway to see the damage. Anytime in the last 17 years where he has fallen over because he was drunk or spilled something or broke something because he was drunk, he blames it on self diagnosed ailments. His drinking has NEVER been an issue to him only everyone else around him. During one of his drinking binges 10 years or so ago where he switched from drinking chardonnay (his drink of choice) to liquor one summer, my wife cried to him and asked him why he feels like he needs to drink all the time and his response was " Why do I need air?" I have never not known him to not drink in the last 17 years and he likes to pressure people into drinking with him so that he doesn't appear to be the only one participating. He used to always say that he rushed home from work everyday and would run over little ducks and bunnies to get home to his wife, but I think it was really to get home to his true love...Alcohol.
 
I honestly wish everyone on here could meet both of them because I feel like it would take more effort than I have in me to explain and describe how these two people are. I have said that I have never met anyone like my MIL/FIL and probably never will.
 
Cherokeekid88 said:
Diet mnt dew bottles of wine in his lunch box to enjoy on the drive home from work...
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I hope he's a white wine drinker or this is the worst disguise ever
That said, it's a great choice of bottle bc ain't nobody gonna ask for some of that shit.
 
I didn't read through every post or anything, so pardon me if I missed something relevant.
Sorry your family is dealing with this. It sucks.
I will say this, beware of the toxicity of failed relationship(s) around you, They can be a cancer to your own. With that said, stay in your own lane as best you can and take care of your own family.
You can with love, respect and support, OBSERVE but not ABSORB the situation.
 
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Jody Treadway said:
I didn't read through every post or anything, so pardon me if I missed something relevant.
Sorry your family is dealing with this. It sucks.
I will say this, beware of the toxicity of failed relationship(s) around you, They can be a cancer to your own. With that said, stay in your own lane as best you can and take care of your own family.
You can with love, respect and support, OBSERVE but don't ABSORB the situation.
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After dealing with dementia and other issues, my saying now is "sometimes you have to watch a train wreck". You have to let it run its course...there is nothing you can do to stop it, and trying will only hurt you and others around you.
 
Cherokeekid88 said:
I honestly wish everyone on here could meet both of them because I feel like it would take more effort than I have in me to explain and describe how these two people are. I have said that I have never met anyone like my MIL/FIL and probably never will.
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Take em wheelin! (of course that would allow them to meet about 3% of the people in this thread :laughing:)
 
I blame it on that box wine! :laughing: That crap made my 2nd wife a mean drunk!
You have a lot of great recommendations here. Y'all aren't going to fix this, they have to put forth the effort.
Toxic people are just that, and it will bleed into your life when you get involved so you're in a tough spot.
I hear what FIL is saying, not that I agree with him, but he's done it his way and have supported them so far so he's good with it.
Bottom line, they have got to find some middle ground.
 
R Q said:
I blame it on that box wine! :laughing: That crap made my 2nd wife a mean drunk!
You have a lot of great recommendations here. Y'all aren't going to fix this, they have to put forth the effort.
Toxic people are just that, and it will bleed into your life when you get involved so you're in a tough spot.
I hear what FIL is saying, not that I agree with him, but he's done it his way and have supported them so far so he's good with it.
Bottom line, they have got to find some middle ground.
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Exactly. I told my SIL yesterday that unfortunately, its going to have to start with them not enabling her while she is living there and stop fixing her three meals a day. Let her know that dinner is ready and she can come make a plate. This open discussion on here honestly has lit a fire under me that has given me what I feel like is more control over the situation and understanding the mentality of these two people that are causing such turmoil in their family. I am slowly getting my wife on board that she needs to draw a line and only allow it to affect her so much and then after that you just have to stop caring so that it doesn't bleed into your life with our daughter and myself where you are missing out on time you can't get back. It really does suck because I know that it isn't going to end up all rainbows and unicorns, but I feel like the wrong people are fighting this fight when it needs to be taken control of by the 2 involved. So thank you to everyone on here that commented because even if it was a laugh, it has truly helped me help others in my family to try and remedy this situation as civil as possible.
 
lol So the plot thickens...
So a couple of weeks ago, I get a call from my BIL (He is out of town at the time) and he tells me that my MIL is claiming she is having chest pains and having a panic attack and she wants my SIL to take her to the hospital. So my SIL called the ambulance because she has 5 kids at home and it was 10:30 at night... Calls the ambulance and tells them what is going on, they get there and question my MIL and take her vitals...turns out that she had run out of her Xanex pills and her refill wasn't due for another 2.5 weeks... she was having Xanex withdrawals...she went to the hospital in hopes that they would give her some more to hold her over...

She is currently back living at home with my FIL... She is playing the victim and stating that no one wants her around so she guesses she will just live at home now... its been a couple of weeks now and my BIL and SIL are happy to have their home back and its been a bit of radio silence lately... My wife still checks in on her and her dad every couple of days and they are still trying to manipulate her and make her feel guilty. So as of right now, things are better for my wife and BIL/SIL and myself as well (because I am not being thrown in the middle of all this) but hopefully they can figure it all out and stop putting their damn kids through all of this.
 
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