KOH discussion thread

Will Carter said:
Oh I don't disagree. But I can't play if tires are indestructable. Because then the more expensive stuff starts to break a lot and that's out of my budget. I told Dave back a year or so ago that I could come play again if tire balls went away.

Copied from my face space post back when the ball ban was announced:
"I'm all for the removal of tire balls.
And I'll come back to Ultra4 Racing sooner because of it. My last race was 2014 Superlift where I went from 40th starting (missed qualifying) to finishing 7th with no tire balls. I tip toed through that course and believe I was the only guy in top 10 that didn't have busted tires with tire balls hanging out the side. I realized that if I wanted to go faster I needed tire balls $$ so I could care less about the line and more about the throttle. But then I'd just bust more tires and wheels $$$ that are connected to a car I'd just wad up more $$$$ and... It was just the straw for my camel's back at that time. Busting tires keeps drivers in check, in turn keeping cars together for less money."

And I'm not just an inter web crybaby about how racing is expensive...I just stated the fact (to the man that runs the show) that if Ultra4 wants my money and show to come back then something was going to have to change. Otherwise I'd have to move on to other motorsports (although I haven't found one nearly as fun) that I could afford to play in. I don't think I'm the only one that felt this way...




You know you're flat with a liner and performance is sacrificed immediately. I think the inner liners measure about 29" inflated. I don't know exactly, but how much could a thin bald 29" tire cost? I'd imagine a lot less than tire balls.


And I'll type it again: It's not the cost of the tire balls that are the issue, it's what the tireballs allow you to destroy over the course of a race because you don't have to give two shits about what you bash in to.
Click to expand...

Translation:
Tires = fuse for expensive shit
 
Loganwayne said:
I'm not up on all the rules for a race. Is there a limit on how many tires you can use in a race. Yeah I get the fact a flat slows you down but if you got the money having 30 wheels and tires for KOH and change out tires after the rock sections even if they are still holding air just tot be safe seems like it could cost a whole lot more to be competitive if your competition could keep changing tires if you only had a half dozen

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
You got a whole lot of space between pits and it'd take a lot of teaming (e.g. money) to span out around the course like that
 
RatLabGuy said:
You got a whole lot of space between pits and it'd take a lot of teaming (e.g. money) to span out like that
Click to expand...
I didnt have time to watch it this year. So I can't comment on how they set up pits this year. Last year they had pits set up after the rock sections where your most likely to cut a tire. Yes out in the desert it doesn't make since to have a pit but if you carry a spare you "should" be ok.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
BIGWOODY said:
$$$ for the win, always.
Click to expand...
I'd be curious to a chart of the average cost of the top 5 cars plotted over year. And also a similar plot of the average cost of those same team race prep/team costs for the trip.

Racing is expensive.
 
BIGWOODY said:
$$$ for the win, always.
Click to expand...

Not always, but most of the time

- Sorry, been racing my MTB lately and made me think of this. Points well taken fellas

image.jpeg
 
Last edited:
But it's cool to plow into shit at 80mph and send your whole tire, wheel and A-arm flying across the desert.

Really though I get what you're saying @Will Carter the last couple years it's become 175+ miles of rockbouncing for some drivers.
 
rockcity said:
So, you going to run out to the cell phone bush every time you need signal for the thing to work? Otherwise you are SOL out in the desert without cell signal.
Click to expand...

It doesn't require cell signal. Most of the mapping apps work that way. You have to preload the map data, but that's it.
 
rockcity said:
So, you going to run out to the cell phone bush every time you need signal for the thing to work? Otherwise you are SOL out in the desert without cell signal.
Click to expand...

It's GPS based, and like many GPS-based tools I'm assuming it can load local maps and then use them without cell service.
 
rockcity said:
So, you going to run out to the cell phone bush every time you need signal for the thing to work? Otherwise you are SOL out in the desert without cell signal.
Click to expand...
shawn said:
It doesn't require cell signal. Most of the mapping apps work that way. You have to preload the map data, but that's it.
Click to expand...
Yup.
Back in '12 I did a wilderness backpacking trip in Newfoundland... 100 miles from the closest cell tower. Pre-loaded all the maps onto a phone and used a GPS nav program. No problems.

This isn't new tech at all, just the added bit of having directions fed to you ahead of time for a non-road coarse. I don't know why everybody wouldn't have been using something like this for years.
 
RatLabGuy said:
I'd be curious to a chart of the average cost of the top 5 cars plotted over year. And also a similar plot of the average cost of those same team race prep/team costs for the trip.

Racing is expensive.
Click to expand...

I don't even want to think of how much.... but a lot of the top 5-10 guys are now making a killing selling their chassis and rigs to rich people that want to do the race also. Miller and Campbell rigs are all over the races now and they are making a killing building rigs for people.
 
shawn said:
LeadNav GPS - Planning, Coordination, Navigation on the App Store

I'll mount an iPad mini to the dash in a heartbeat....
Click to expand...

shawn said:
It doesn't require cell signal. Most of the mapping apps work that way. You have to preload the map data, but that's it.
Click to expand...

If you check out their site, It looks like they have done plenty of research/testing on mounts and such for the devices. They also have a cheap additonal GPS antenna, that should really boost their signal.
 
Will Carter said:
You know you're flat with a liner and performance is sacrificed immediately. I think the inner liners measure about 29" inflated. I don't know exactly, but how much could a thin bald 29" tire cost? I'd imagine a lot less than tire balls.


And I'll type it again: It's not the cost of the tire balls that are the issue, it's what the tireballs allow you to destroy over the course of a race because you don't have to give two shits about what you bash in to.
Click to expand...

Im not argueing, but I could see Nitto or others designing a "liner" that was larger in diameter to replace the tire-balls. I would hope Dave would quickly outlaw them as well.

It is funny how tire balls has quickly changed the rigs. Doesnt seem like that long ago when folks were talking junk about the huge axles being run in Rockbouncers, and how they would never work out west. This year it seemed that every SA car interviewed was running 40 spline and dropout 14 bolts.

I also wonder if this led to the increased number of drivers completing the race? Last year only 31 finished, and Dave said this years course was more difficult and would see more attrition. But they have 50 finish under time this year. I know the rigs are getting better, but nothing revolutionary across the board.
 
Last edited:
paradisePWoffrd said:
Im not argueing, but I could see Nitto or others designing a "liner" that was larger in diameter to replace the tire-balls. I would hope Dave would quickly outlaw them as well.

It is funny how tire balls has quickly changed the rigs. Doesnt seem like that long ago when folks were talking junk about the huge axles being run in Rockbouncers, and how they would never work out west. This year it seemed that every SA car interviewed was running 40 spline and dropout 14 bolts.

I also wonder if this led to the increased number of drivers completing the race? Last year only 31 finished, and Dave said this years course was more difficult and would see more attrition. But they have 50 finish under time this year. I know the rigs are getting better, but nothing revolutionary across the board.
Click to expand...
I thought there was wording in the rule to go ahead and address someone making a different version of 'tire balls' to keep tires inflated. I can't remember.

Gear works 10">14 bolt...

Loganwayne said:
I'm not up on all the rules for a race. Is there a limit on how many tires you can use in a race. Yeah I get the fact a flat slows you down but if you got the money having 30 wheels and tires for KOH and change out tires after the rock sections even if they are still holding air just tot be safe seems like it could cost a whole lot more to be competitive if your competition could keep changing tires if you only had a half dozen
Click to expand...
broncosbybart said:
Nevermind the speculation of cars in the $4-500k range nowadays.
Click to expand...

And that's exactly it. If the point and shoot guy in the $400k car has to change a dozen tires in a race then I'll kick his ass in my $50k car.
 
paradisePWoffrd said:
I also wonder if this led to the increased number of drivers completing the race? Last year only 31 finished, and Dave said this years course was more difficult and would see more attrition. But they have 50 finish under time this year. I know the rigs are getting better, but nothing revolutionary across the board.
Click to expand...

I heard several drivers mention how easy this years course was. Most of the rock trails were run down, and I believe this years finishing time was the lowest ever, under 7 hrs.
 
Back
Top