Lots of interesting news today

[Southern_Transplant]

Ultimately what’s the life expectancy of said panels, and what do you do after they are bad. I’m 100% against screwing anything to my roof that I just paid 7k to have covered. But I could see a corner of the property having them or something like that.

Without digging through documents, I'd say @jeepinmatt is about right at 50 years.

Adding solar panels is a harder decision (tighter investment numbers) than just putting solar tiles on when you build or replace your roof. At this point, I don't get why a lot more folks aren't paying the extra $20k in building costs to just install solar tiles from the start. You can tack it onto your mortgage and save money over paying a separate power bill from the start.

Back to your idea of having panels on a stand alone structure, my uncle did that way back in the day. He lived in eastern Oregon on a 300 acre ranch. So, it made sense for him. I'd look into it. For most residential areas, it would eat up land area and be harder to get a clear shot of the sun.

 

[jeepinmatt]

Without digging through documents, I'd say @jeepinmatt is about right at 50 years.

I'd say I was talking about the minimum life of a fossil fuel power plant and I think you are extremely optimistic to think you'll get 50 years from solar panels. I think about half that is more like it.

At this point, I don't get why a lot more folks aren't paying the extra $20k in building costs to just install solar tiles from the start.

How long would it take for solar to breakeven, assuming there were no issues and no maintenance?

Here's a snapshot of my power bill for the past year. 100% electric, no gas, 4 people in a 2500sqft+1500sqft basement house.

Average of about $115/month. $20k breakeven is 14.5 years. Will I even be in this house in 15 years? Whats the life expectancy of the batteries in the solar energy system? How much maintenance is required? Etc.

I'm not anti-solar either, I just don't think it's all it's cracked up to be. I seriously considered it 5 years ago when we built our house, and the math didn't make sense.

 

[Noel]

I'd say I was talking about the minimum life of a fossil fuel power plant and I think you are extremely optimistic to think you'll get 50 years from solar panels. I think about half that is more like it.


How long would it take for solar to breakeven, assuming there were no issues and no maintenance?

Here's a snapshot of my power bill for the past year. 100% electric, no gas, 4 people in a 2500sqft+1500sqft basement house.
View attachment 411685

Average of about $115/month. $20k breakeven is 14.5 years. Will I even be in this house in 15 years? Whats the life expectancy of the batteries in the solar energy system? How much maintenance is required? Etc.

I'm not anti-solar either, I just don't think it's all it's cracked up to be. I seriously considered it 5 years ago when we built our house, and the math didn't make sense.

Damn man do y’all even use power? Lol mines about 1500sq and we’re usually 160 range worst is 225. But the wife does like her heat. Plus the shop is a separate meter at a minimum of 26 I think

 

[CasterTroy]

I'd say I was talking about the minimum life of a fossil fuel power plant and I think you are extremely optimistic to think you'll get 50 years from solar panels. I think about half that is more like it.

I've seen less than 10 years on several projects. And that's if you don't have hail damage.

 

[Southern_Transplant]

I've seen less than 10 years on several projects. And that's if you don't have hail damage.

I'd say I was talking about the minimum life of a fossil fuel power plant and I think you are extremely optimistic to think you'll get 50 years from solar panels. I think about half that is more like it.


How long would it take for solar to breakeven, assuming there were no issues and no maintenance?

Here's a snapshot of my power bill for the past year. 100% electric, no gas, 4 people in a 2500sqft+1500sqft basement house.
View attachment 411685

Average of about $115/month. $20k breakeven is 14.5 years. Will I even be in this house in 15 years? Whats the life expectancy of the batteries in the solar energy system? How much maintenance is required? Etc.

I'm not anti-solar either, I just don't think it's all it's cracked up to be. I seriously considered it 5 years ago when we built our house, and the math didn't make sense.

I just went back and checked my documents. The warranty for 80% production is 25 years. I was spending $140/mo on power. I spent $14,700 after tax rebate on the system.

If @CasterTroy saw someone's panels fail after 10 years, something went badly wrong. My uncle's system was installed in the late 90s and was still going strong when he sold the place two years ago. That's in a dry snowy region. If you have hail damage, you have insurance.

Matt, I think your comment about how long you intend to own your home is the key barrier for making the investment. I'd estimate that most Americans want to see a 5 year ROI and don't want to commit to owning their house for 10 years. In contrast, solar is more prevalent in Europe where people see houses as a 20+ year investment.

 

[Tom@Hilltop_Machine]

Solar panels degrade 1% per year so in 10 years you have lost 10% efficiency and then it's about time for new batteries too. So do you really save anything? I know you have piece of mind when the power goes out and you are trying to be "Green", but I don't see the savings.

 

[CasterTroy]

If @CasterTroy saw someone's panels fail after 10 years, something went badly wrong.

It did. But, unfortunately it wasn't an isolated incident. Solar panels have never been consistently improving because they're always relevant and evolving. Rather, they're start/stop/shelved, start again because of a trend that was hot at a particular time. Mainly due to Govco kickbacks and energy company rebates that were available in a short window, then they evaporate like a fart in the wind...so there's no money to continue to dump into improving them.

Also the production wasn't heavily regulated so there were many cheap knockoffs. I mean, you think getting quality offroad lights that aren't a cheap chinese knockoff is hard NOW, try getting a true quality solar panel 15 years ago.

Sean I'm not trying to rain on your parade, and I REALLY mean it, that I hope you are a success story. It's just I've seen more than the average person has just because of my profession. Sort of like a mechanic that will ONLY buy a honda or toyota because he's worked on too damn many kia/hyundai. Sure there's folks with 200k on a kia...but that mechanic won't have one. Nor recommend one to anyone asking. And again..this is just one (east coast based) idiots opinion based off what I've seen (in NC specifically). Both professionally and personally.

 

[RatLabGuy]

Back to your idea of having panels on a stand alone structure, my uncle did that way back in the day. He lived in eastern Oregon on a 300 acre ranch. So, it made sense for him. I'd look into it. For most residential areas, it would eat up land area and be harder to get a clear shot of the sun.

Also can create major water runoff problems depending on the geography of the area.

 

[RatLabGuy]

Average of about $115/month. $20k breakeven is 14.5 years. Will I even be in this house in 15 years? Whats the life expectancy of the batteries in the solar energy system? How much maintenance is required? Etc.

I'm not anti-solar either, I just don't think it's all it's cracked up to be. I seriously considered it 5 years ago when we built our house, and the math didn't make sense.

Also if you bake that $20k into the mortgage you're paying interest on it over 30 years with a very low payoff rate so its going to be more like $40k

 

[RatLabGuy]

Matt, I think your comment about how long you intend to own your home is the key barrier for making the investment. I'd estimate that most Americans want to see a 5 year ROI and don't want to commit to owning their house for 10 years. In contrast, solar is more prevalent in Europe where people see houses as a 20+ year investment.

See also: adding insulation, replacing windows, upgrading to higher SEER HVAC, etc etc. Its almost always a very long payout.
I'll say I wish I'd made the investment but 14 years ago "We're only going to be here a few years".

 

[Southern_Transplant]

It did. But, unfortunately it wasn't an isolated incident. Solar panels have never been consistently improving because they're always relevant and evolving. Rather, they're start/stop/shelved, start again because of a trend that was hot at a particular time. Mainly due to Govco kickbacks and energy company rebates that were available in a short window, then they evaporate like a fart in the wind...so there's no money to continue to dump into improving them.

Also the production wasn't heavily regulated so there were many cheap knockoffs. I mean, you think getting quality offroad lights that aren't a cheap chinese knockoff is hard NOW, try getting a true quality solar panel 15 years ago.

Sean I'm not trying to rain on your parade, and I REALLY mean it, that I hope you are a success story. It's just I've seen more than the average person has just because of my profession. Sort of like a mechanic that will ONLY buy a honda or toyota because he's worked on too damn many kia/hyundai. Sure there's folks with 200k on a kia...but that mechanic won't have one. Nor recommend one to anyone asking. And again..this is just one (east coast based) idiots opinion based off what I've seen (in NC specifically). Both professionally and personally.

Good points. I guess for me, I got sick enough of seeing the power rate increases and knew enough folks who have had them 10+ years with success to say it's worth the risk vs. reward at this point of technological advance in the industry. I'm definitely not the poster child for "everyone should make the switch". As @RatLabGuy mentioned, finance rates would have held me back from pulling the trigger. Especially with the rates shooting up in recent years.

I like trees and all, but I've never used "going green" as an investment consideration.

 

[CasterTroy]

I got sick enough of seeing the power rate increases

I can get behind that completely...and the closet prepper in me has thought of numerous solutions.
I have a natural stream on my 7 acre property. It's fed from a few springs upstream. Not very big...more like a regular small creek, but continual flow, even in drought conditions. But rest assured if it were a bigger body of water, my dumbass would spend ridiculous money for a water wheel and generator to charge batteries and give zero fawks about an ROI. That's just how my warped mind works.....I can't see logic of solar panels but a water wheel generator makes perfect sense to dump money into

 

[drkelly]

I noticed recently that every time I click on an article on Fox news website that I cannot view the article. They want me to create an account by entering my email address. Guess I will just get my news elsewhere.

 

[Southern_Transplant]

I noticed recently that every time I click on an article on Fox news website that I cannot view the article. They want me to create an account by entering my email address. Guess I will just get my news elsewhere.

Use edge. The splash screen lets you click on news articles. Fox, CNN, and of course MSNBC.

 

[Southern_Transplant]

and the closet prepper in me has thought of numerous solutions.

That was a factor in my choice. Even in the ROI works out slightly in the negative, I own my power generation.

 

[Lurch830]

No way the grossly high paid people in charge didn't know an extra 2 million people and countless new large businesses would be sucking up electricity at a fast rate?

Some of it is these economic development projects are coming to NC faster than the infrastructure can support and Duke is making corrections. Some of it is the Duke Carolinas & Duke Progress merger on the horizon.

These are non congruent units:
“the rate of growth for Duke Energy's electric usage load is currently 8 times higher than the peak load projected in 2022.”

Was it just a bad projection for 2022?

Are we talking 0.01% vs 0.08% growth? Or 10% load vs 80% load? Huge difference, but exactly the journalism I’d expect from WRAL.

Probably a bad projection coupled with supply chain issues. Recent quote I've seen for a substation power transformer is 24-36 months and the price is TBD upon delivery.
Typically we plan on an average 4% growth each year, but there are a few areas that blow that out of the water.

Rate of growth. Public company. You can expect they forecast 10% growth, minimum.

WFH plays into it, electrification of everything, IOT and of course....the elephants in the room. EV and home BESS....plus ever bigger houses requiring more electricity.

^this

but the high paid big brains didn't see it coming?

hey....100,000 people are moving here a year.....you think more electricity will be used?!?!

hey mr. planner.....VINFAST and Wolfspeed are building massive new facilties......you think they will need power too??!!!

I met with one of these companies when they were scouting areas. They were looking for 200MW of load which is more than Rocky Mount peaked at last year. Those numbers are typically inflated but still a huge strain on the grid especially since building new nuclear units makes everyone panic/remember Chernobyl & Fukushima

 

[JSJJ388]

I can get behind that completely...and the closet prepper in me has thought of numerous solutions.
I have a natural stream on my 7 acre property. It's fed from a few springs upstream. Not very big...more like a regular small creek, but continual flow, even in drought conditions. But rest assured if it were a bigger body of water, my dumbass would spend ridiculous money for a water wheel and generator to charge batteries and give zero fawks about an ROI. That's just how my warped mind works.....I can't see logic of solar panels but a water wheel generator makes perfect sense to dump money into

This is a plan of mine. Only problem is that I can't dam the creek without it backing up onto the neighbors land.

 

[Lurch830]

Ultimately what’s the life expectancy of said panels, and what do you do after they are bad. I’m 100% against screwing anything to my roof that I just paid 7k to have covered. But I could see a corner of the property having them or something like that.

I keep seeing PV panels have a maximum efficiency of 20% and they only last 15-20 years before they degrade to the point of needing to be replaced. If I ever do a roof top system it would be to only power DC equipment. In my opinion an off-grid system should be in the corner of your yard, tall enough (if possible) to act as a carport and you can point it in the right direction at the right angle....or pony up the $$$ to get a system that tracks. Plus you have to plan for batteries, HVAC for the batteries, charging system & inverter.

 

[skyhighZJ]

This is a plan of mine. Only problem is that I can't dam the creek without it backing up onto the neighbors land.

But if played correctly with a good stock of fish in said pond it could be presented in a “different” manner??

 

[Lurch830]

Without digging through documents, I'd say @jeepinmatt is about right at 50 years.

Adding solar panels is a harder decision (tighter investment numbers) than just putting solar tiles on when you build or replace your roof. At this point, I don't get why a lot more folks aren't paying the extra $20k in building costs to just install solar tiles from the start. You can tack it onto your mortgage and save money over paying a separate power bill from the start.

Back to your idea of having panels on a stand alone structure, my uncle did that way back in the day. He lived in eastern Oregon on a 300 acre ranch. So, it made sense for him. I'd look into it. For most residential areas, it would eat up land area and be harder to get a clear shot of the sun.

I'd say $20k wouldn't even start the conversation for a decent PV system.

How long would it take for solar to breakeven, assuming there were no issues and no maintenance?

Here's a snapshot of my power bill for the past year. 100% electric, no gas, 4 people in a 2500sqft+1500sqft basement house.

Average of about $115/month. $20k breakeven is 14.5 years. Will I even be in this house in 15 years? Whats the life expectancy of the batteries in the solar energy system? How much maintenance is required? Etc.

I'm not anti-solar either, I just don't think it's all it's cracked up to be. I seriously considered it 5 years ago when we built our house, and the math didn't make sense.

Depends on the rate your power provider gives for solar (is applicable)...WNC doesn't give as much as ENC due to their rates with DEC & DEP. I know of a town that has a solar rate where they actually lose money which explains why they've had ~500 solar interconnections in the last 18 months!

I know the details of 2 home owners in ENC that have rooftop solar. One is a double-wide (flat-ish roof) with solar only that actually gets them an energy credit late Spring through early Fall. The other has a stick built house (average sloped roof) with solar & battery back-up...payback on his system was calculated at 45+ years! Lots of stuff will have to be replaced by then which just extends the payback.

I've seen less than 10 years on several projects. And that's if you don't have hail damage.

Not to mention lightning strikes or damage from inverters burning up & catching the field on fire. I've even seen/heard of damage from mowing grass/spraying the gravel, but you got to keep up appearances! Best one was damage from the goats they used to keep the grass down, goats were picked off by coyotes so they had to bring in donkeys which have done more damage!

 

[1-tonmudder]

I’m sorry,but damn people.

Radio Greeneville

Please share this story and remind your loved ones to NEVER share financial information over the phone, do not click on random links or messages received on your phone or by e-mail, and trust your...

www.facebook.com

 

[jeepinmatt]

I’m sorry,but damn people.

Radio Greeneville

Please share this story and remind your loved ones to NEVER share financial information over the phone, do not click on random links or messages received on your phone or by e-mail, and trust your...

www.facebook.com

“When the woman arrived at the bank, the manager tried to inform her that the situation was a scam and advised her not to withdraw the cash, but she did anyway.”

 

[1-tonmudder]

“When the woman arrived at the bank, the manager tried to inform her that the situation was a scam and advised her not to withdraw the cash, but she did anyway.”

the part that got me the most was she put it in a box and left it out front while some guy.that had parked down the street, walked up and got the money. My uncle is VP at one of the local banks,I wonder it that was him.He's said thats happened before.

 

[mommucked]

Bicyclist hit, killed on Old Stage Road in southern Wake County

The State Highway Patrol said they don't expect the driver to be charged since the bicyclist was wearing all black and there were no reflectors on the bike.

www.wral.com

play stupid games.....

 

[RatLabGuy]

Democratic senators call on DEA to deschedule marijuana entirely

A group of Democratic senators called on the Biden administration Tuesday to completely deschedule marijuana, arguing the White House’s recommendations to the Drug Enforcement Administration …

thehill.com