Lumber prices and alternatives

obullfish said:
Sounds like I need to stop at Blowe’s and pick up the few 6x6x12’s I’ve been waiting on buying.
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Sounds like I need to disassemble my mezzanine in the garage and make enough to buy that porsche I been wanting
 
Hardi is outta stock pretty much everywhere in WNC from what i could find. we got a small shipment that half of it was already promised to us and we just bought the rest knowing what we had coming up. they told us they shut the plant down because they didnt have enough people to run it right now. dont know how true that is.
 
Loganwayne said:
Hardi is outta stock pretty much everywhere in WNC from what i could find. we got a small shipment that half of it was already promised to us and we just bought the rest knowing what we had coming up. they told us they shut the plant down because they didnt have enough people to run it right now. dont know how true that is.
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I don't find that hard to believe.
 
Got this email today:
This price increase is due to several factors including

  • Significant raw materials cost increases, particularly phosphorus
  • Unprecedented transportation costs and logistical challenges
  • Tariffs on imported raw materials


As you know, a significant amount of the phosphorus supply is sourced from China. With the Chinese New Year quickly approaching, China’s hosting of the winter Olympics, and power shortages leading to plant shutdowns, possibly into June of 2022, is concerning for everyone that does business in China. Please be assured that Koppers is pursuing and executing several viable options to secure the reliability of the FlamePro® supply chain, including building a significant buffer of raw materials, even at current elevated costs. We will continue to keep the lines of communication open. These delays, shortages, and materials/freight increases regarding phosphorus supply will continue to have an impact on everyone in the fire-retardant business.


Here we go...
 
Jody Treadway said:
Got this email today:
This price increase is due to several factors including

  • Significant raw materials cost increases, particularly phosphorus
  • Unprecedented transportation costs and logistical challenges
  • Tariffs on imported raw materials


As you know, a significant amount of the phosphorus supply is sourced from China. With the Chinese New Year quickly approaching, China’s hosting of the winter Olympics, and power shortages leading to plant shutdowns, possibly into June of 2022, is concerning for everyone that does business in China. Please be assured that Koppers is pursuing and executing several viable options to secure the reliability of the FlamePro® supply chain, including building a significant buffer of raw materials, even at current elevated costs. We will continue to keep the lines of communication open. These delays, shortages, and materials/freight increases regarding phosphorus supply will continue to have an impact on everyone in the fire-retardant business.


Here we go...
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Way to go retards! (can we still say that on here?)
 
jeepinmatt said:
Way to go retards! (can we still say that on here?)
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Jake Gyllenhaal Reaction GIF
 
Jody Treadway said:
Got this email today:
This price increase is due to several factors including

  • Significant raw materials cost increases, particularly phosphorus
  • Unprecedented transportation costs and logistical challenges
  • Tariffs on imported raw materials


As you know, a significant amount of the phosphorus supply is sourced from China. With the Chinese New Year quickly approaching, China’s hosting of the winter Olympics, and power shortages leading to plant shutdowns, possibly into June of 2022, is concerning for everyone that does business in China. Please be assured that Koppers is pursuing and executing several viable options to secure the reliability of the FlamePro® supply chain, including building a significant buffer of raw materials, even at current elevated costs. We will continue to keep the lines of communication open. These delays, shortages, and materials/freight increases regarding phosphorus supply will continue to have an impact on everyone in the fire-retardant business.


Here we go...
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Which is odd....because the largest integrated phosphate mining and chemical plant in the world is only about 45 minutes from my house. :rolleyes: They probably dig it up here and ship it there to be made in to phosphorus or something along those lines. Don't make no sense.
 
Jody Treadway said:
Got this email today:
This price increase is due to several factors including

  • Significant raw materials cost increases, particularly phosphorus
  • Unprecedented transportation costs and logistical challenges
  • Tariffs on imported raw materials


As you know, a significant amount of the phosphorus supply is sourced from China. With the Chinese New Year quickly approaching, China’s hosting of the winter Olympics, and power shortages leading to plant shutdowns, possibly into June of 2022, is concerning for everyone that does business in China. Please be assured that Koppers is pursuing and executing several viable options to secure the reliability of the FlamePro® supply chain, including building a significant buffer of raw materials, even at current elevated costs. We will continue to keep the lines of communication open. These delays, shortages, and materials/freight increases regarding phosphorus supply will continue to have an impact on everyone in the fire-retardant business.


Here we go...
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I am hearing similar stories for the chemicals used to make up the CCA commercial treatment. We sell primarily CCA treated material and most of the plants I work with are saying be prepared for at least a 3-4 week delay in treatment due to possible lack of chemical. Supposedly the raw components are stuck on container ships at the port or ready for port but can't get unloaded. Imagine that...
 
ncsuwoj said:
I am hearing similar stories for the chemicals used to make up the CCA commercial treatment. We sell primarily CCA treated material and most of the plants I work with are saying be prepared for at least a 3-4 week delay in treatment due to possible lack of chemical. Supposedly the raw components are stuck on container ships at the port or ready for port but can't get unloaded. Imagine that...
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I need it to quote some CCA material today myself and my treater I told me exactly the same thing.
 
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Crazy I just read this:

Under cover of COVID there are some global movements going on that most people have not yet noticed. One of them: About 2 months ago or so - China has suspended 90% of their production of phosphorous. This is due to "energy shortage". And have essentially ended all exports. They are the worlds largest exporter of phosphorus. But are by far, NOT the worlds largest holder of phosphorus, that title is held by a different random country. China also is a country that has a 100-year policy on public planning. And 2 months ago, they just stopped sending out any more phosphorus.

Why?

Because while everyone is focused on energy, man-made products, and even water as the next cause of the great war, and the things to watch, the reality is they are wrong on all of that. The reality is all of those items are creations of man and available in essentially unlimited quantities, if we have the gumption to actually make it happen. There is no shortage of any of that. But you know what you can't just make: elemental phosphorus. But phosphorus is super cheap and common, right? As it turns out: so you think. It's easily mined. The rub, is those mines tend to play out fast. And the total is going fast. Turns out, there's only around an 80 year supply left. Obviously more will be found between now and then, combined with efficiency and extraction techniques, so the world isn't going to be out of phosphorus in 80 years. But it is going to be harder and more expensive to get over the coming decades. Potentially, a LOT more expensive to get.

Why does this matter?

Because phosphorus is the key ingredient in fertilizer. Fertilizer, is what took mankind from maybe 1 billion, to pushing 10 billion, in a couple hundred years. That fast. Everyone thinks it's the industrial revolution and energy. Yea those helped, but you know what it really was? It was the discovery of industrially produced fertilizer and the ability to grow a lot of food reliably, and cheaply. Fertilizer is made from 3 key items:
-nitrates (which we can make in infinite supply)
-potassium (which is in decently strong supply)
-phosphorus (which is the limiting item)

Most importantly - Fertilizer is dirt cheap. The ingredients are easy to make, or just found on the ground. As those ingredients get harder to find, and more expensive, things get expensive. China figured this out, did a 90% reduction, and virtual elimination of exports in the last 2 months. That's a big deal, and if your industry has anything to do with phosphorus, you are well aware of the freak-out going on right now. By the way, if you think food is expensive now, when that sudden stop of the China flow of phosphorus hits the reserves at the fertilizer plants, they stop making fertilizer. That's happening now. And when next year's crop plans call for fertilizer to grow, and that stuff has gone up an order of magnitude in price, if there at all - crop growth ain't going to be pretty.

But here's the funny piece of the puzzle. Of all the countries who have a little phosphorus here and a little there, one country has a lot of it. I mean a LOT of it. As in, about 70-75% of the entire planetary supply. And that country is - of all places - Morocco. Last year, Morocco shut down a bunch of their P production, due to market conditions. Basically, China made it too cheap the just closed some of the operations. But now, that's going to change. So Morocco is going to come to our rescue (likely). So it's likely the supply chain on this is going to have a blip, but likely backfilled quickly enough, as the pressure on them right now has got to be completely intense. But what does all this mean? It means the Moroccan ministry of mining and exportation and so forth, are basically the most important government agents on the planet right now. Because while everyone is worried about Taiwanese microchips, none of that means shit when you can't grow food. And everyone's ability to grow food just fell to Morocco as of about 2 months ago.

Point being - to those who are curious where the next major conflict is going to be, what geography to study, and what language and culture to understand - my suggestion, spend some time looking at Morocco.

By the way - random-factoid. The first country to recognize the creation of the USA formally? Morocco. To this day, Morocco and the US have friendly relations, and even engage in joint military exercises. That's a good thing. That's a very good thing.
 
Croatan_Kid said:
Which is odd....because the largest integrated phosphate mining and chemical plant in the world is only about 45 minutes from my house. :rolleyes: They probably dig it up here and ship it there to be made in to phosphorus or something along those lines. Don't make no sense.
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It depends on the purity of the phosphate coming out of the ground. I used to work for a fire extinguisher company and they made their own dry chemical agent. The phosphate from the mine in NC isn't pure enough for ABC dry chemical fire fighting agent. Once a year, the company would place an order for an entire container ship load from a mine in Morocco. Apparently, this mine in Morocco was the only mine in the world that had the purity level required for ABC dry chemical agent.
 
jeepinmatt said:
Way to go retards! (can we still say that on here?)
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Well, evidentially you can't say it in NASCAR anymore without backlash...and this NASCAR we're speaking of ::insert Allen Iverson "practice rant" voice::

www.foxnews.com

NASCAR sending Kyle Busch to sensitivity training for using R-word during interview

NASCAR driver Kyle Busch has been ordered to undergo sensitivity training before the start of the 2022 season for using an insensitive term during an interview after Sunday's race at Martinsville.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
 
tlucier said:
It depends on the purity of the phosphate coming out of the ground. I used to work for a fire extinguisher company and they made their own dry chemical agent. The phosphate from the mine in NC isn't pure enough for ABC dry chemical fire fighting agent. Once a year, the company would place an order for an entire container ship load from a mine in Morocco. Apparently, this mine in Morocco was the only mine in the world that had the purity level required for ABC dry chemical agent.
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Makes sense. They mine ore and, from what I can understand, the stuff in Morocco is essentially pure phosphate sand. It'd obviously be higher quality and easier to refine. Oddly enough, Morroco is just about straight across the Atlantic from us, so who knows how much of a deposit there is near that particular latitude.
 
Crazy - my wife and I are discussing building a dock down on the coast (over 300' of pier towards the water) and currently we are having the builder price out an all aluminum dock versus wood / Trex type product at his advice. While the aluminum is more expensive it's not a significant difference in the grand scheme of things. Add to that the longevity of the product and salt air location and it just seems to make sense at the moment
 
AdamH said:
Crazy - my wife and I are discussing building a dock down on the coast (over 300' of pier towards the water) and currently we are having the builder price out an all aluminum dock versus wood / Trex type product at his advice. While the aluminum is more expensive it's not a significant difference in the grand scheme of things. Add to that the longevity of the product and salt air location and it just seems to make sense at the moment
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Shoot me your material list. I can provide salt water rated treated any dimension lumber you need.
For comparison sake.
 
AdamH said:
Crazy - my wife and I are discussing building a dock down on the coast (over 300' of pier towards the water) and currently we are having the builder price out an all aluminum dock versus wood / Trex type product at his advice. While the aluminum is more expensive it's not a significant difference in the grand scheme of things. Add to that the longevity of the product and salt air location and it just seems to make sense at the moment
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We put money down on a used camper last weekend. Sales guy told me they are having problems making trailers that have aluminum frames due to a magnesium shortage.

www.ft.com

China’s magnesium shortage threatens global car industry

Production curbs in the country have hurt stockpiles of a key ingredient to make aluminium in vehicles
www.ft.com www.ft.com
 
Jody Treadway said:
Shoot me your material list. I can provide salt water rated treated any dimension lumber you need.
For comparison sake.
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I appreciate it. We’re heading down the week of Thanksgiving and will meet with the builder and finalize design plans. I should have materials list then
 
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