Owner/builder for garage-shop build. Should I be scared?

Loganwayne said:
Not all your subs are going to be licensed only the HVAC, plumbing and electrical will be. But all your subs should be insured BUT this will also mean that they typically charge more because they aren’t fly by night people.

We require all our subs to have liability and workers comp and have us listed as additionally insured. I can promise you that turns away a ton of potential subs that are to lazy to do the paper work or don’t want to pay for the insurance.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I guess that's a good way to filter out subs, but it sounds like I might have to talk to a lot of subs before finding someone who can cover themselves....?
What a pain in the ass, maybe. Hopefully I'll start to figure out a pipeline with local people to get referrals instead of throwing the proverbial darts...

It is just strange that you can sell services as a business and not be insured, etc. Sketchy, but I guess I'm not surprised.
 
Last edited:
You really owe it to us to post the plans for this garage. We have endured 6 pages of contemplating and still don't have a good grasp of what exactly an architect drawn garage looks like. To be sure you've got some plan's and a rendering that we can look over.
 
awheelterd said:
You really owe it to us to post the plans for this garage. We have endured 6 pages of contemplating and still don't have a good grasp of what exactly an architect drawn garage looks like. To be sure you've got some plan's and a rendering that we can look over.
Click to expand...

It's really not very extravagant. It's more the frighteningly high quotes that have turned this into 6 pages. Sure, there's about 6 windows and a section of brick wall, but other than that it's a garage. The architect is pretty affordable for a project like this, but I know almost everyone here is going to think that zero dollars should be wasted on architecture.

The brick wall is the street-facing side, as I don't really want the bay doors facing the street. The layout is going to change because we're downsizing it (900sqft instead of 1200sqft seems closer to affordable); it's still a concept for quote at this point. There aren't really any midcentury modern houses in this area, so I wanted to do a midcentery modern-ish garage. The house is behind the rear setback (it changed after the house was built), and we have a power line easement in front of the property line, so it has to be tucked close to the house.

1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg
 
Last edited:
What's the point of the lvl running the length of the building? Detail 11?

You have a lot of expensive nitpicky details that are driving your price up so high.
 
awheelterd said:
What's the point of the lvl running the length of the building? Detail 11?

You have a lot of expensive nitpicky details that are driving your price up so high.
Click to expand...

Lvl is there to break the length of the roof up into a length where conventional lumber can be Used. Since it’s a single slope roof.

I’d also say that the off set on the back side of the garage is a waist of money. Every corner of a building will drive cost up


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Loganwayne said:
Lvl is there to break the length of the roof up into a length where conventional lumber can be Used. Since it’s a single slope roof.

I’d also say that the off set on the back side of the garage is a waist of money. Every corner of a building will drive cost up


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
In the drawing looking at the doors side that mentons the lvl I missed that the left side bay is recessed. I thought they had the lvl running the length of that short wall on the house side. Oops
 
I bet you could add 300sqft and it would barely up your price. All your details are driving the cost, not sq footage. I found that out when building my house. I cut the size of a few rooms and it changed my cost by pennies.
 
rockcity said:
After seeing the pics and drawing. I redact my statement about the contractor being too expensive and replace it with a new statement that he hasn’t estimated enough $.
Click to expand...


Please elaborate. This is what I'm trying to learn. What specifically jumps out at you? We're currently at well over $100k without metal roof, or interior finishing, or the pavers/walkway/deck that are included in the pics. Any of the details are up for discussion, which is why we're still at the quote stage and don't have drawings. 30% GC fees are not helping.

I'm fully willing to simplify some things, but I don't want to get rid of the big elements that make it look different than a generic boring box or a metal building, which is the reason I'm not building a boring box or metal building.
 
Last edited:
awheelterd said:
I bet you could add 300sqft and it would barely up your price. All your details are driving the cost, not sq footage. I found that out when building my house. I cut the size of a few rooms and it changed my cost by pennies.
Click to expand...

Downsizing to 900 had some effect, but not huge. Mostly the incremental costs of lest concrete, less roof, etc., which makes sense. I was definitely not expecting it to scale linearly with square footage.
 
I want to ask you a separate but very, very relevant question.
I'm approaching this as a real estate investor.

Is this your forever home? What is your time horizon here in this house?

Answer those 2 questions and I will offer additional advice.
 
Ron said:
I want to ask you a separate but very, very relevant question.
I'm approaching this as a real estate investor.

Is this your forever home? What is your time horizon here in this house?

Answer those 2 questions and I will offer additional advice.
Click to expand...

Not planning on moving, but never know what the future holds. Hard to talk in absolutes because I'm only 42 and nowhere close to retirement.
Yes, I'm going to lose my ass on whatever I build, but it should be recovered by the Charlotte area house and land appreciation if we ever need to sell.
 
Fabrik8 said:
Please elaborate. This is what I'm trying to learn. What specifically jumps out at you? We're currently at well over $100k without metal roof, or interior finishing, or the pavers/walkway/deck that are included in the pics. Any of the details are up for discussion, which is why we're still at the quote stage and don't have drawings. 30% GC fees are not helping.

I'm fully willing to simplify some things, but I don't want to get rid of the big elements that make it look different than a generic boring box or a metal building, which is the reason I'm not building a boring box or metal building.
Click to expand...


Too many exterior finishes. Detailing between them isn’t quick for most contractors. Too many exterior corners. Roof structure, while reasonably simple, isn’t a simple gable roof with prefabbed trusses, which adds time and costs. *exposed LVL with marine grade finish, wrapped in copper... this just adds $$$ even though it’s probably simple and relatively simple. Exposed rafter tails and cool, but not quick, adding time. Brick... adding this into the mix again complicated things; foundation for the bricked areas is different and again, transitioning from one wall finish to the other further complicates things. Painted steel columns... that just adds $$$ even though it seems easy to do.

the clerestory windows and structure around add probably at least $15k without any benefit other than looks.

Volume discounts for finishes is shot out the window because it looks like you have, at most, 2 squares each of 5 different finishes.

standing seam metal roof is double what an AG metal panel would be. (I think we touched on this earlier).

there just seems to be a lot of detail and finishes that just easily double the price.
 
Last edited:
rockcity said:
Too many exterior finishes. Detailing between them isn’t quick for most contractors. Too many exterior corners. Roof structure, while reasonably simple, isn’t a simple gable roof with prefabbed trusses, which adds time and costs. *exposed LVL with marine grade finish, wrapped in copper... this just adds $$$ even though it’s probably simple and relatively simple. Exposed rafter tails and cool, but not quick, adding time. Brick... adding this into the mix again complicated things; foundation for the bricked areas is different and again, transitioning from one wall finish to the other further complicates things. Painted steel columns... that just adds $$$ even though it seems easy to do.

Volume discounts for finishes is shot out the window because it looks like you have, at most, 2 squares each of 5 different finishes.

standing seam metal roof is double what an AG metal panel would be. (I think we touched on this earlier).

there just seems to be a lot of detail and finishes that just easily double the price.
Click to expand...


Interesting, thanks for the input.

The brick itself was quoted at $2500 (not including any foundation details), and the columns at $500 (or was it $900?), but all of that stuff adds up. The rafter tails can go, a clean simple soffit would be perfectly nice, kind of what the Eichler homes have.

This is good, I'm starting to develop a list of what may go on the suggested delete list, without massively impacting the design.
 
Fabrik8 said:
Please elaborate. This is what I'm trying to learn. What specifically jumps out at you? We're currently at well over $100k without metal roof, or interior finishing, or the pavers/walkway/deck that are included in the pics. Any of the details are up for discussion, which is why we're still at the quote stage and don't have drawings. 30% GC fees are not helping.

I'm fully willing to simplify some things, but I don't want to get rid of the big elements that make it look different than a generic boring box or a metal building, which is the reason I'm not building a boring box or metal building.
Click to expand...


I’d give the same contractor the same drawing, minus all the fancy details, with AG metal roof, one exterior wall finish, and eliminate the clerestory windows and I bet you’ll be dang near half what you were originally quoted.
 
rockcity said:
there just seems to be a lot of detail and finishes that just easily double the price.
Click to expand...

Which, is fine if
Ron said:
this is your forever home.
Click to expand...

Then who CARES how much it costs.

If you're doing this for YOU and because
Fabrik8 said:
I'm not building a boring box or metal building.
Click to expand...


Then you simply have to resolve yourself to knowing "everything has a cost"

Honestly, I think this is a killer design. One that took a very creative and artistic mind (which I lack..hence why I have a degree in architecture but practice mechanical engineering :rolleyes:)....and any change to "square it up" for the sake of cutting cost would be a shame
 
CasterTroy said:
Which, is fine if


Then who CARES how much it costs.

If you're doing this for YOU and because



Then you simply have to resolve yourself to knowing "everything has a cost"

Honestly, I think this is a killer design. One that took a very creative and artistic mind (which I lack..hence why I have a degree in architecture but practice mechanical engineering :rolleyes:)....and any change to "square it up" for the sake of cutting cost would be a shame
Click to expand...

You've summed up the entire dilemma. I care how much it costs because I currently can't afford it, but that's maybe why some small simplifications and being my own GC would help. But yes, I'm hesitant to change the design much.

Thank you for being maybe the first person to actually think I did okay by getting an architect. :p
 
I mean you are in Mooresville(IIRC) ...if you plan to be there for the foreseeable future and dont have plans to move (understanding things can change)
Increase the size to 1,400 sqft (10% rule) get a HELOC and build the thing. It looks cool as shit. Everyday when you pull in stop, smile and say "I worked for this" and enjoy.
Seriously on a mortgage note at 20 years 20k is maybe $80/month. Just skip one dinner/date night or buy one less tool a month and fawking enjoy it.

Price appreciation will take care of it if you make it 7 years there...and you will have what you want and be happy. And if you die next year in your sleep you will have got to have it before you croaked.

Seriously. If you told me you were selling in 5 years Id say build a boring box. But if you plan to be there build what you want, enjoy it and live. I mean worst cse scenario you end up with a cheaper casket. I havent found a way to buy extra years yet for dollars.

Id rather have 60x180 metal building becasue there is no repalcement for sqft but do you.
 
Ron said:
Id rather have 60x180 metal building becasue there is no repalcement for sqft but do you.
Click to expand...

Yeah but your boring ass has only ever seen like 10 movies....so there's that :popcorn:
 
CasterTroy said:
Yeah but your boring ass has only ever seen like 10 movies....so there's that :popcorn:
Click to expand...
you are correct...but Ive owned over 150 cars...
I want a big shop and a small (non existent) movie theater... ;)
 
If I had the land to put a big shop, I'd have a big shop. We've got less than an acre and some weird layout issues that make it not possible though, and metal building 10 feet from the house isn't an option.

Ron said:
I mean you are in Mooresville(IIRC) ...if you plan to be there for the foreseeable future and dont have plans to move (understanding things can change)
Increase the size to 1,400 sqft (10% rule) get a HELOC and build the thing. It looks cool as shit. Everyday when you pull in stop, smile and say "I worked for this" and enjoy.
Seriously on a mortgage note at 20 years 20k is maybe $80/month. Just skip one dinner/date night or buy one less tool a month and fawking enjoy it.

Price appreciation will take care of it if you make it 7 years there...and you will have what you want and be happy. And if you die next year in your sleep you will have got to have it before you croaked.

Seriously. If you told me you were selling in 5 years Id say build a boring box. But if you plan to be there build what you want, enjoy it and live. I mean worst cse scenario you end up with a cheaper casket. I havent found a way to buy extra years yet for dollars.

Id rather have 60x180 metal building becasue there is no repalcement for sqft but do you.
Click to expand...

Sooooo that means save like $25-30k and be my own GC, and do it on a more relaxed build timeline?

I agree with the logic of everything you said. We've already been here almost 6 years (yikes, and still no garage) and aren't planning on going anywhere unless something forces us to.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top