Packing heat on campus

[Banned User]

however, there is nothing in the North Carolina Firearms Laws that differentiate public vs private when it discusses schools...the only "exempt" category listed is for home schools...

Actually they dont differentiate because when they say schools, they ONLY mean public schools. Private schools dont get regulated because the gov't doesnt pay for them. Private schools make their own rules. The only times that a private school is recognized by the Gov't is times where it says that they are an acceptable alternative for kids who are not in public schools. This is because it is illegal for kids not to be in school.

 

[Banned User]

Uglyjeep and fishhunt,
im jealous, because ive been talking alot more than you but your responses always get continued in conversation. almost everything i say gets ignored, or at least i dont hear a response to it.

 

[kcarroll]

I work with and am friends with a member on this very board who was a victim of a home invasion. My family was robbed when I was younger. In understand the chances.
My son was the victim of a dog attack (our dog). That dog was gone the next day. I have new, smaller dogs, but I am wary of him around others.
I don't need a news flash. I have a mind and can digest facts. Just because I have not directly experienced something does not mean I cannot have an opinion. That opinion may even be a good one.
I have never given birth to a child, but I know it looks like it hurts, so my OPINION is that it hurts.
Following your logic, no one would ever go into a hospital, 'cause I am sure someone you know has died in one. No on would drive a car, 'cause someone you know has been hurt or killed in one.
As for not losing any rights, we have already lost them. we are just arguing that they should be reinstated.

LOL, I guess the news flash came off rougher than it should, my bad. However, comparing speculation about pain vs emotion is really irrelevant. Most folks react similarly to pain, not necessarily true with fear and emotion. My point was, in certain circumstances one persons right to safety is just as important as anyone else's. I think in schools, churches, etc it's ok for folks to want them to be weapon free. I can respect that, I don't have to be there. Would you chastise your son for not being comfortable around dogs? Probably not, I wouldn't. Nor would I disparage anyone who had been a victim of violent crime for being uncomfortable around firearms.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I think it is just as valid as mine. We just disagree. Funny that you mention a hospital, I know plenty of people afraid to go b/c of exactly that. Now I know hospitals don't really kill people, people, bacteria and viruses kill people. When in modern history has it been legal for a student to take a weapon to school?

 

[kcarroll]

Uglyjeep and fishhunt,
im jealous, because ive been talking alot more than you but your responses always get continued in conversation. almost everything i say gets ignored, or at least i dont hear a response to it.

What about me?

 

[raleighjeepguy]

Uglyjeep and fishhunt,
im jealous, because ive been talking alot more than you but your responses always get continued in conversation. almost everything i say gets ignored, or at least i dont hear a response to it.

Prob has alot do with the fact your arguments make as much sense as a football bat.

 

[kcarroll]

Prob has alot do with the fact your arguments make as much sense as a football bat.

He'll probably get better with age.

 

[uglyjeepoffroad]

Would you chastise your son for not being comfortable around dogs? Probably not, I wouldn't.

I don't (actually he loves dogs). But I also still believe that people have the right to have a dog.

It is my responsibility to protect him. In all situations.

 

[Banned User]

What about me?

part of it was to you, i answered a bunch of questions to you and raleigh, but i didnt get any feedback on my answers, and i havent in several posts of mine.

 

[Banned User]

Prob has alot do with the fact your arguments make as much sense as a football bat.

arguments still going above your head? im sorry, i cant dumb them down.

He'll probably get better with age.

Raleighs still stuck on that argument that anything can be used as a weapon i think.


see carroll, you seem to think about my retorts and then think about them some more before posting.
Raleigh on the other hand just seems to go. "Cas your post is too long, never mind ill just skip reading and yell about apples and oranges and state my argument again without considering what you just said"

by the way Raleigh, if the number of posts determines a winner to the debate, you better start typing because we both have 31

 

[raleighjeepguy]

arguments still going above your head? im sorry, i cant dumb them down.

LoL dude I'm pretty sure you are 100% correct. Your posts def can't be any dumber.

never mind ill just skip reading and yell about apples and oranges and state my argument again without considering what you just said"

You compared lightbulbs to guns. I'm pretty sure I was done considering you serious at that point.

Raleighs still stuck on that argument that anything can be used as a weapon i think.

And you can't seem to understand the difference between a gun and a car so really where does that leave you?
I'll put it down one more time

A gun is a weapon and only a weapon.
A car is a piece of transportation. Can it be used as a weapon.....absolutely. Does it serve a greater purpose that in this society we couldn't live without? Yep
A lightbulb is a fucking lightbulb.....and thats about it.
Itt you have compared a gun to:
a fork
a lightbulb
a baseball bat
a car
and a knife


Thats all I can remember off hand without going back through 10 pages of garbage. If you can't see how any of those objects are apples vs oranges in comparison to a gun then seriously you are dense and theres no reason to continue this conversation. If you ever told a student body or any state/federal representative that they would flat out laugh at you way worse than I have. To be perfectly honest man I entered this thread hoping to hear some legit stats and opinions and while a few of the guys have posted some you have actually doomed my opinion of guns in schools just thinking of you carrying on campus. Thanks!

 

[mrblackwell]

From an email I received a few weeks ago:


This is the father of one of the girls killed at Columbine.. I heard him speak several years ago and it made a real impression on me.. This makes sense also...

Please take time to read this and then forward to as many people as possible. Thank you.

Guess our national leaders didn't expect this, hmm? On Thursday, Darrell Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School shootings in Littleton , Colorado , was invited to address the House Judiciary Committee's subcommittee . What he said to our national leaders during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful.

They were not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it received well. The following is a portion of the transcript:

' Since the dawn of creation there has been both good & evil in the hearts of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers.

'The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used.. Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain's heart.

'In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA - because I don't believe that they are responsible for my daughter's death. Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with Rachel's murder I would be their strongest opponent.

I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy -- it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best. This was written way before I knew I would be speaking here today:



Your laws ignore our deepest needs,
Your words are empty air.
You've stripped away our heritage,
You've outlawed simple prayer.
Now gunshots fill our classrooms,
And precious children die.
You seek for answers everywhere,
And ask the question 'Why?'
You regulate restrictive laws,
Through legislative creed.
And yet you fail to understand,
That God is what we need!



' Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, mind, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and wreak havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational
systems for most of our nation's history.. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tragedy occurs -- politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws. Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts.

'As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered be fore his very eyes, he did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge every young person inAmerica , and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999 , atColumbine High School prayer was brought back to our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him. To those of you who would point your finger at the NRA -- I give to you a sincere challenge. Dare to examine your
own heart before casting the first stone!

My daughter's death will not be in vain! The young people of this country will not allow that to happen!'

 

[Banned User]

LoL dude I'm pretty sure you are 100% correct. Your posts def can't be any dumber.
You compared lightbulbs to guns. I'm pretty sure I was done considering you serious at that point.
And you can't seem to understand the difference between a gun and a car so really where does that leave you?
I'll put it down one more time
A gun is a weapon and only a weapon.
A car is a piece of transportation. Can it be used as a weapon.....absolutely. Does it serve a greater purpose that in this society we couldn't live without? Yep
A lightbulb is a fucking lightbulb.....and thats about it.
Itt you have compared a gun to:
a fork
a lightbulb
a baseball bat
a car
and a knife
Thats all I can remember off hand without going back through 10 pages of garbage. If you can't see how any of those objects are apples vs oranges in comparison to a gun then seriously you are dense and theres no reason to continue this conversation. If you ever told a student body or any state/federal representative that they would flat out laugh at you way worse than I have. To be perfectly honest man I entered this thread hoping to hear some legit stats and opinions and while a few of the guys have posted some you have actually doomed my opinion of guns in schools just thinking of you carrying on campus. Thanks!

I named a whole bunch of random stuff. The whole point is that anything can be used as a weapon. Yes, a gun is a weapon. Students have the right to defend themselves. If anything is a weapon, then they will use anything in a life or death situation. Why should they have to? Why not let them use GUNS since thats what they are designed for? You think that when a gunman enters a class they should have to use a stick, flourescent light bulb, pencil, random object that they just happen to have lying around? you understand that a gun is different than those objects, then why should they resort to using them instead of just using a gun? A responsible student, should have the right to CC in case they need it so they dont have to try to fight a gunman with their fists, cause thats a stupid idea.
that clear things up a bit for you?

 

[Banned User]

Eric Harris=kid who shot up a high school. You can't use him in any of this b/c it can't be prevented with any form of your
thinking. No kids in a high school are going to have guns so yea he was pretty much dead on.

My argument is wrong that William Sanders, a 47 year old teacher, shouldn't have had to leave his CC at home?
a high school is still a school. That could have been stopped if CC was allowed on that school property.

 

[raleighjeepguy]

Can you tell me the probability of a shooter coming into a class with an armed student? Thats all I'm asking for anymore. I'm not responding to your repetitious posts anymore. I've responded to the same comments every time. Either come up with something original, something with some statistics, or gtfo it cuz you are a broken record at this point.

 

[Banned User]

why should i say anything different? my opinions arent going to change because they might make someone uncomfortable.

I take it that you arent going to respond to post#187?

By the way, someone else please jump in and tell me if this next part isnt making sense. Someone other than raleigh jeep, because i know he will just completely ignore the logic in it and just type that i dont make sense like he has before.

here goes, simple enough

Raleigh, you ask the probability of a shooting. You say i need statistics or to "get the fuck out." If you just spew statistics you are a puppet, and you need to learn to argue with logic sometimes too.

MY answer...it doesnt matter what the statistics are IF it happens at all. Should my opinion change if it happens only once a year? What about 100 times a year? Either way, it is a tragedy. All i am saying is that IF a shooting does happen, Students should be able to excercise the right to defend themselves. There arent risks of allowing CC on campus because anyone who wants to shoot someone can do it anyway. There ARE risks to not allowing CC IF a shooting happens.
I sure as heck dont want another school shooting to happen. IF, IF, IF, it does however happen, i want as many students to live as possible. CC HELPS THEIR ODDS.

Is the CHANCE that someone might live, who would otherwise die not enough to make you think they have the right to have CC?

 

[Reed]

Can you tell me the probability of a shooter coming into a class with an armed student? Thats all I'm asking for anymore. I'm not responding to your repetitious posts anymore. I've responded to the same comments every time. Either come up with something original, something with some statistics, or gtfo it cuz you are a broken record at this point.

Statistically, 74% of all statistics are made up on the spot....therefore, due to the statistics, statistical points are void from this point on

 

[Banned User]

Statistically, 74% of all statistics are made up on the spot....therefore, due to the statistics, statistical points are void from this point on

shutup, statistics are numbers(apples), were talking about guns(oranges).

 

[Reed]

Well to be honest. I can tell the probability of a shooter comming into a class room with a student with a CCW.... 0. There are no ccw's allowed on campus, therefore you cannot really figure out any statistics pertaining to them...yet

 

[49erRider]

I didn't read the thread but I carried my empty holster all week.

 

[hscrugby]

Is the CHANCE that someone might live, who would otherwise die not enough to make you think they have the right to have CC?

OK, quick question.
have you ever tried shooting with adrenaline pumping?
Even just with a little bit of movement?
Hell, even in paintball, and I'm not really scared there, but I can target shoot all day, but when I'm running etc, I can't hit CRAP.
It's all a matter of putting rounds down range.
If I dump 50 rounds at some one, on a paintball field, I'm spraying and praying. Hell, I might just put 100+ rounds down range.

NOW change that to a school situation. Some asshat starts shooting, I suddenly open up from cover with all the rounds I've got.
WHO KNOWS who or what I'm gonna hit.
THAT is the problem.
THAT is my issue.
Most people can't react properly in their car when something goes slightly wrong. (aka never been on a track/had the training to know what to do) Why would Joe the teacher who goes to a range twice a year be able to react properly in a combat situation?

 

[Banned User]

I didn't read the thread but I carried my empty holster all week.

I didnt see anyone doing it at wake tech., but i saw a few at state

OK, quick question.
have you ever tried shooting with adrenaline pumping?
Even just with a little bit of movement?
Hell, even in paintball, and I'm not really scared there, but I can target shoot all day, but when I'm running etc, I can't hit CRAP.
It's all a matter of putting rounds down range.
If I dump 50 rounds at some one, on a paintball field, I'm spraying and praying. Hell, I might just put 100+ rounds down range.
NOW change that to a school situation. Some asshat starts shooting, I suddenly open up from cover with all the rounds I've got.
WHO KNOWS who or what I'm gonna hit.
THAT is the problem.
THAT is my issue.
Most people can't react properly in their car when something goes slightly wrong. (aka never been on a track/had the training to know what to do) Why would Joe the teacher who goes to a range twice a year be able to react properly in a combat situation?

no i havent, and i dont want to have to use a pistol in a "combat situation."
i do not however feel like people should apply for CC who are unconfident in their abilities to maintain their cool in a situation where it is needed. also youve got to remember, you should never be shooting and running anyway. you need to take the best shot possible, and that means that when its time to shoot, try to focus, and when its time to run, GET MOVING.

I agree that there might be many CC owners who might not know what to do in a school shooting type situation as far as protecting others. Im not even arguing that everyone should be ready to defend their whole school from a gunman. i think that people should have CC so the can defend themselves. If they save others, great. they are not required to do so. i think everyone should know how to use their weapon safely and efficiently in any given scenario. Police officers, swat, marines, ect. all have to know how to shoot when the adrenaline is pumping. Anyone can learn it, and it takes practice. Practice is a must for CC holders.




The most ideal situation i could ever ask for, would be that colleges allow CC, and no student ever have to use their weapon. My main argument is that by allowing CC in schools, you are thereby removing campuses from the list of "easy targets." (all without costing the school a dime.)

 

[Reed]

I don't think the paintball compairson is very good. I used to play, and I could hit a 1 inch diameter pipe 15 outta 20 times at full speed, but I would still drop a hopper on a bunker if it was a key to the feild....now in a live fire situation I'm not going to throw 7 rounds down range and hope to hit something. Apples and oranges my friend...

I totally agree with the shooting with adrenaline thing, but I do believe it takes practice. In the majority of situations, the shooter's going to be at the door, so running away while shooting is normally out of the question. Like CASS said, its possible to learn to shoot under pressure.

One of my biggest problems is that if I'm carrying my weapon while on a walk, and I happen to step on the sidewalk on king street I'm a felon. I'm not worried about school shootings or Russian's invading, I just want to be able to carry my weapon where ever i want as long as i'm not drinking. Esp. on a nice open campus, in a small town where everything is in walking distance like App. Is it really fair that I can carry down the middle of River st, but if I step on either sidewalk I can be charged with a big time felony?