Running Grease questions

Discussion in 'Tow Rigs and Trailers' started by upnover, May 17, 2005.

  1. upnover

    upnover Grumpy, decrepit Old Man Moderator

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    Location:
    Morganton NC
    I understand the legal issues of running a fuel that you haven't paid a road tax on. Does anyone know of any permits, or wavers one might obtain for experimental fuels? I would think since much testing has been done with so many fuels that this is a possibility. Hybrid cars that run on gas/electric, how do they tax the electric part? For that matter, complete electric cars, there isn't any road tax on those are there? If a person were to be able to burn grease or such by-products and were to mix it with road tax paid fuel, would it then be legal? For me, I think it's wonderful to use something that is not putting money into the hands of the people who want to kill us. Just some ponderings.
    Chip
     
  2. NC_Mog

    NC_Mog Eurotrash Driver

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    Location:
    Apex, NC
    I'd have to go back and re-read the statue, but from memory...

    A hybrid is covered because the power it produces is generated by the gasoline it burns. As for an electric vehicle, I believe the wording is centered around the term "motor fuel" or something similar. Technically, an electric vehicle does not consume or burn any form of fuel (i.e. gasoline, diesel, or bio-derived fuel), and therefore does not have to pay any highway tax.
     
  3. BIGWOODY

    BIGWOODY Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Thomasville
    Sorta sux we have to keep sending money to people who can't stand our way of life and want to kill us as a result. The farmers we have put out of business growing tobacco could be growing crops that could produce fuel, yet the governerment doesn't want us to do that either because they lose tax dollars, WTF? I'd be willing to bet some laws will be changing in the future. I can understand it being a problem burning petroliumn based non-taxed fuels, but a vegetable product, I just don't get.
    Peachtree city Georgia has golf cart paths eveywhere, the whole town operates on them,Bald head island has golf carts everywhere. The gas company and other (even city) trucks run on propane, is this legal? Not trying to stir the pot to much, obviously the law is what it is, but there are some questions and exceptions that don't make any sense to me.
    As for an electric vehicle, highway tax is paid to maintain the road system, if they use the road system and don't pax tax it's the same thing. Also they may not burn any fuel, but the power came from somewhere.
     
  4. greg slade

    greg slade The Moderated

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    timberlake
    :stupid:

    I have a friend who works as a dmv officer, they are looking in to permits for me as we speak, i will post all or any necessary permits or applications required as long as the moderators will allow. :huggy:
     
  5. upnover

    upnover Grumpy, decrepit Old Man Moderator

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    Morganton NC
    Good questions. Is it a fuel tax? or is it a hwy use tax? Or is it a hwy use tax collected thru fuel purchases. If that is the case, seems unfair since for the same use onecar doesn't pay near as much as another simply because of MPG's.
    Another thought... Additives put directly into the fuel tank ultimatly gets burned thru the engine, are there taxes (other than sales tax) paid on these?
     
  6. LARRY SMITH

    LARRY SMITH Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Gastonia
    tax

    How can there be a tax issue on something thats free?You pay your road use tax when you register your vehicle. The "sales tax" on gasoline/ diesel is just that, a sales tax on those items, if you are operating the vehicle on roads.
     
  7. 2offroad

    2offroad Jeepless

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    Concord NC
    Tax on motor fuel pays to build and repair roads, not a sales tax.
     
  8. OBX Fisherman

    OBX Fisherman Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Winston-Salem
    A friend of mine whose a truck driver bought some biodiesel fuel at a truck stop in Texas recently. It was cheaper than regular diesel and he got about 2 MPG better than regular diesel. The biodiesel is filtered & processed grease. He thought it was great since he got better milage out of it.

    Gary
     
  9. BRUISER

    BRUISER silent.. but deadly Moderator

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    If you are helping to keep everyone legal and follow the law then yes this will stay here.. but if it gets off track you know what will happen..
     
  10. Rich

    Rich Asshole at large

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    Location:
    Central PA
    I run B20 all the time when the price is right.. Never gotten better mileage from it, nor is it reported to offer, or marketed as giving better mileage. The slightly higher cetane rating is offset by the slightly lower BTU of bio.

    Selling filtered and processed grease? You SUURE about that? or was that how it's explained to him? WVO is much, much different than biodiesel, and he wouldn't be able to re-start his truck if he filled the tank with it, nevermind the fuel heating issues.

    I track my mileage tank by tank on an excel spreadsheet, so I know there's no trend with the Bio, even when I ran it every tank for months.

    it does smell much, much better, but we're getting off the topic of grease.
     
  11. NC_Mog

    NC_Mog Eurotrash Driver

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    Apex, NC
    Good luck. However, its not a DMV issue but a state tax issue over which DMV has no control. Its not a sales tax but a use tax.

    As to taxing something that is free, granted the fuel may be but the road is not. Its paid for by all our tax dollars.

    Collecting a use tax via the fuel a vehicle uses is about as fair as you're going to get. No other method insures that people who use the roads more pay more. If a vehicle uses a lot less fuel, it also is not having as much of an impact on the roads (wear & tear) as other vehicles.

    To another point, guys its not us (NC4x4) that makes the laws in this state. Talk to your local rep if you have an issue with a state law. At NC4x4, we just don't want to support or facilitate the breaking of any laws.
     
  12. Wwildman

    Wwildman Never Give UP

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    Location:
    Garner, NC
    but you are forgetting about the vehicles that run on propane they do not pay a fuel tax and most truckers IFTA tax sticker which they pay tax on each year based on milage of states they travel in so figure out why grease is not legal and propane is because they do not pay a useage tax on that but alot of companies run lpg fuel gofigure :handed:
     
  13. hobie

    hobie Sub-par Moderator

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    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    lpg must be taxed if used on the road, and they will try to charge it. Rich and John M were talking about this on their propane conversions.

    Kimball's being the messenger here, so keep that in mind. He's following board policy and NCGS. He's assuredly not any happier about this than anyone else here.

    J
     
  14. Ridgerunner

    Ridgerunner Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Fuquay Varina, NC
    I think that If you run propane you are suppose to buy from a place that can charge the use tax to the fuel. I have seen places that sell propane with a sign that say not for hwy use
     
  15. Wwildman

    Wwildman Never Give UP

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    Apr 16, 2005
    Location:
    Garner, NC
    at this point in time I havent seen any tax for lpf fuel or any such tax sticker and I have worked on guilford gas trucks and the majority of them use lpg
     
  16. shawn

    shawn running dog lackey of the oppressor class Administrator

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    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    I saw this guy on 85 doing about a buck 20 the other day.

    Must mean it's legal, eh? I mean, I didn't see him get pulled over, so it must be cool.
     
  17. Wwildman

    Wwildman Never Give UP

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    Garner, NC
    I get your point but the vehicles driven by the goverment or any utility service must obey all laws regaurding state statues and by that meaning any company that works for that state so how come the little man suffers to save a buck and gets scrutnised just like the progue carb that got 150mpg back in 1938 he invented that card to save gas and oil companies bouught him out and you never here of it any more
     
  18. BIGWOODY

    BIGWOODY Well-Known Member

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    Thomasville
    After doing some more reading and research it looks like "big brother" is going to come to our rescue with GPS, it's already being discussed in California with the amount of hybrids and electric cars. I don't really do anything illegal so I don't really care about GPS being on my vehicle but it does bother me that we can have tabs kept on our comings and goings by the government.
    If a tax was created for those using alternative fuels I would gladly pay it, but am I the only one that thinks this is total BS? The government shoves fuel efficient cars and trucks down the auto makers throats and imposes gas guzzler taxes, but then when an alternative is found and perfected, it's no good either. I'm a diehard "love America" kind of guy but this makes no sense at all....I'll glady pay the $1000 when I get pulled and quickly there after hire an attorney to fight the case. Money means nothing to me when pricipal is in question.
     
  19. hobie

    hobie Sub-par Moderator

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    Raleigh, NC
    Uh, they're refueled at fleet right? Therefore you wouldn't see a sticker on the rig, the stickers are on the pumps at commercial vendors. Semi/tractor stickers are for an extra tax because of their weight and are unrelated to this discussion.

    DMV probably has a paper trail available to them for LPG fleet vehicles. They buy a couple truckloads a year, and probably send in the taxes themselves based on that.

    There is probably a process that would allow grease users could probably do the same thing. You would have to log the amount of grease converted/used and send in the taxes. This log and reciepts would need to be available to the DMV officer at the time they pull the rig over. DMV is already looking for sleep and mileage logs on big rigs.

    J
     
  20. NC_Mog

    NC_Mog Eurotrash Driver

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Apex, NC
    With regards to LPG and retail users...

    "§ 105‑449.136. Tax on alternative fuel.

    A tax at the motor fuel rate is imposed on liquid alternative fuel used to operate a highway vehicle by means of a vehicle supply tank that stores fuel only for the purpose of supplying fuel to operate the vehicle. A tax at the equivalent of the motor fuel rate is imposed on all other alternative fuel used to operate a highway vehicle. The Secretary must determine the equivalent rate. The exemptions from the tax on motor fuel in G.S. 105‑449.88(2), (3), and (4) apply to the tax imposed by this section. The refunds for motor fuel tax allowed by Part 5 of Article 36C of this Chapter apply to the tax imposed by this section, except that the refund allowed by G.S. 105‑449.107(b) for certain vehicles that use power takeoffs does not apply to a vehicle whose use of alternative fuel is taxed on the basis of miles driven. The proceeds of the tax imposed by this section must be allocated in accordance with G.S. 105‑449.125. (1995, c. 390, s. 3; 1995 (Reg. Sess., 1996), c. 647, s. 47.)"

    With regards to government use, they are exempt from paying themselves a tax.

    LPG utilities are dealt with on a bulk basis. They account for what is brought in and what is used for both highway and non-highway use. If they screw up the accounting for the non-highway/for-highway usages, the law says that they are obligated to pay as if ALL the LPG was used on the highway. I bet they don't screw up much.

    Lastly, if you have a problem with it, go talk to your rep concerning your displeasure. Just a messager here. Go do your homework a little better if you post info or opinions not based on fact. Otherwise... :flipoff2:
     
  21. BIGWOODY

    BIGWOODY Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Thomasville
    I appreciate the info, I don't blame you, just want to bitch at someone... :D
    but life ain't always fair...
     
  22. BoltOnJohn

    BoltOnJohn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Location:
    Franklinton, NC
    These guys sell refined grease

    http://biofuels.coop/services.shtml

    It's surprising it's illegal, you see a story pop up on the news every now and then about someone running used grease and the exhaust smelling like french fries.

    Then again, it's not surprising. Don't want to run afoul of the tax man. Someone should right a song about him. Oh wait... :)
     
  23. hobie

    hobie Sub-par Moderator

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    Mar 11, 2005
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    Love their contact page.

    Email sent... We'll see what they say. I'm betting they have a process to log their output and send in the taxes.

    J
     
  24. BRUISER

    BRUISER silent.. but deadly Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2005
    Location:
    Raleigh
    Here is some good info off there page:

    FAQ


    Q: What do I have to do to convert my engine to use biodiesel?
    A: Nothing. Simply fill your diesel fuel tank with biodiesel and drive away.

    Q: I can’t find you on Mapquest. How do I get there?
    A: Click on Directions at the bottom of our homepage.

    Q: How much does biodiesel cost?
    A: 3.50 a gallon.

    Q: Why is its so expensive?
    A: 3.50 is cheap. Petroleum fuel is heavily subsidized in the United States. If it paid its fair share for healthcare and security it would be two to three times more expensive. People on petroleum diesel pay its true price on April 15th rather than at the pump.

    Q: Is Biodiesel classified as a hazardous material?
    A: No.

    Q: Does biodiesel burn cleaner?
    A: Yes. It contains no sulfur, and is carbon neutral. Burning it does create Nox.

    Q: Will I get the same fuel economy running biodiesel?
    A: Yes.

    Q: Do I get the same power running biodiesel?
    A: Yes. Biodiesel contains 5% fewer btus per gallon than petroleum diesel, which is unnoticeable in on-road use.


    Q: Can I sell my homemade fuel?
    A: No. Not unless it passes ASTM 6751 testing and you belong to the National Biodiesel Board.

    Q: Why do I have to belong to the National Biodiesel Board?
    A: They have a monopoly on the "Human Health Effects Data" that is required by the EPA. Access to the data, to stay legal with the EPA, comes from having an NBB membership.

    Q: Where do I get a bus to drive across the country to spread love and biodiesel and democracy and stuff?
    A: We don’t know.

    Q: Where can I learn more about biodiesel?
    A: Take the biofuels class over at Central Carolina Community College.


    http://www.biofuels.coop/faq.shtml


    .
     
  25. hobie

    hobie Sub-par Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2005
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    From the services page...
     

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