Sickness this year

Got the flu the week between Christmas and New Years. It was 2 weeks of awful. Didn't get the shot this year because I never got my physical, and when I do they usually ask if I've had a shot and I get it then. Wife and both kids got the shot, didn't get sick, happily.

Everyone should get the shot. It's simply outright irresponsible NOT to. There is no scientific reason to not get it. Doesn't matter if you're strong and can fight it off. It's the same concept of why your kids should get all their vaccines: So others who CAN'T fight it off won't get it from you.

After having it, I can totally see how a frail elderly person wouldn't survive it, or maybe a very young child. No, it's not 100% effective, but it IS 40-60% effective. And even if you get a strain that it doesn't specifically protect against, it will help you fight it off.

Simply no reason to bask in the ignorance going around these days that are mostly pure lies and not get vaccinated. There's a reason far less people die from the flu than prior to the vaccine.

Note that the vaccine was first developed in 1938:

scaled_US-Flu-1900-2002.gif
 
Pacfanweb said:
After having it, I can totally see how a frail elderly person wouldn't survive it, or maybe a very young child. No, it's not 100% effective, but it IS 40-60% effective. And even if you get a strain that it doesn't specifically protect against, it will help you fight it off.
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Last source is the best read

False statement. Studies are showing quite the opposite. Studies are also showing decreased protections with yearly influenza vaccinations. Studies show no herd immunity from these vaccinations as well. Studies show if you get a strain of influenza that is not within your trivalent it makes the flu worse.

Flu shot issue may not be ‘Canadian problem’ after all: study

Repeated flu shots may blunt effectiveness

Vaccines to prevent influenza in healthy adults | Cochrane

Influenza vaccination for healthcare workers who care for people aged 60 or older living in long-term care institutions | Cochrane

Medscape: Medscape Access
 
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Pacfanweb said:
Got the flu the week between Christmas and New Years. It was 2 weeks of awful. Didn't get the shot this year because I never got my physical, and when I do they usually ask if I've had a shot and I get it then. Wife and both kids got the shot, didn't get sick, happily.

Everyone should get the shot. It's simply outright irresponsible NOT to. There is no scientific reason to not get it. Doesn't matter if you're strong and can fight it off. It's the same concept of why your kids should get all their vaccines: So others who CAN'T fight it off won't get it from you.

After having it, I can totally see how a frail elderly person wouldn't survive it, or maybe a very young child. No, it's not 100% effective, but it IS 40-60% effective. And even if you get a strain that it doesn't specifically protect against, it will help you fight it off.

Simply no reason to bask in the ignorance going around these days that are mostly pure lies and not get vaccinated. There's a reason far less people die from the flu than prior to the vaccine.

Note that the vaccine was first developed in 1938:

scaled_US-Flu-1900-2002.gif
Click to expand...
You drank the cool aid and liked it didn’t you? Vaccines are harmful to our bodies period. I know to many people that have been jacked up by various kinds of vaccines.
 
obullfish said:
You drank the cool aid and liked it didn’t you? Vaccines are harmful to our bodies period. I know to many people that have been jacked up by various kinds of vaccines.
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Sorry there's just no scientific proof to back what you say up. Anecdotal evidence doesn't get it.

Going to have to have more than "my mother's brother sisters nieces nephew got the vaccine and still got sick"
 
Futbalfantic said:
Last source is the best read

False statement. Studies are showing quite the opposite. Studies are also showing decreased protections with yearly influenza vaccinations. Studies show no herd immunity from these vaccinations as well. Studies show if you get a strain of influenza that is not within your trivalent it makes the flu worse.

Flu shot issue may not be ‘Canadian problem’ after all: study

Repeated flu shots may blunt effectiveness

Vaccines to prevent influenza in healthy adults | Cochrane

Influenza vaccination for healthcare workers who care for people aged 60 or older living in long-term care institutions | Cochrane

Medscape: Medscape Access
Click to expand...
None of those links are credible. They practically defeat their own arguments in some of the texts if you actually read them.

It's horse crap like this that is the reason people are not getting their vaccines and all these diseases are making a comeback.

There is FAR more good to getting vaccines then there is bad. The good absolutely dwarfs the bad. It's not close.

Sorry, but I am really big on numerical proof. The numbers show that within the last 10 years lots of idiots quit getting vaccinated or having their kids vaccinated because they thought there was some bad thing in the vaccines. (There isn't) And the numbers also show that things like whooping cough, mumps, measles, and now the flu have made huge comebacks. And it's because of mouth-breathing idiots like Jenny McCarthy and the other mouth-breathing idiots that believe people like her.
 
Pacfanweb said:
Sorry there's just no scientific proof to back what you say up. Anecdotal evidence doesn't get it.

Going to have to have more than "my mother's brother sisters nieces nephew got the vaccine and still got sick"
Click to expand...
Yep. The cool aid has kicked in. Believe what you like as we all have opinions and different beliefs on this. I haven’t been vaccinated with anything since my military days and don’t plan to be in the future. It’s like a tetanus shot have you ever seen anyone with lockjaw?
 
Pacfanweb said:
None of those links are credible. They practically defeat their own arguments in some of the texts if you actually read them.

It's horse crap like this that is the reason people are not getting their vaccines and all these diseases are making a comeback.

There is FAR more good to getting vaccines then there is bad. The good absolutely dwarfs the bad. It's not close.

Sorry, but I am really big on numerical proof. The numbers show that within the last 10 years lots of idiots quit getting vaccinated or having their kids vaccinated because they thought there was some bad thing in the vaccines. (There isn't) And the numbers also show that things like whooping cough, mumps, measles, and now the flu have made huge comebacks. And it's because of mouth-breathing idiots like Jenny McCarthy and the other mouth-breathing idiots that believe people like her.
Click to expand...


Actually there is lots of numerical proof that SOME vaccines are bad. The links posted are all credible and put your one BS chart to shame. If you look at the overall lifespan of people, as well as their overall health, all this "medicine" is doing a lot more damage than good. Look at the rate of autism, look at the fact that people stay sick. Look at all these new diseased that and ailments that we have now.

The facts show that when people lived their lives simpler and didnt get all these vaccines and medicines, as well as eating homegrown or locally grown foods, they were happier and healthier.

Not going to argue with you, but the data says that the flu shot is not only ineffective, its poison.
 
JSJJ388 said:
The facts show that when people lived their lives simpler and didnt get all these vaccines and medicines, as well as eating homegrown or locally grown foods, they were happier and healthier.
Click to expand...

This is true. And sometimes they even lived to be 40 years old.
 
JSJJ388 said:
Actually there is lots of numerical proof that SOME vaccines are bad. The links posted are all credible and put your one BS chart to shame. If you look at the overall lifespan of people, as well as their overall health, all this "medicine" is doing a lot more damage than good. Look at the rate of autism, look at the fact that people stay sick. Look at all these new diseased that and ailments that we have now.

The facts show that when people lived their lives simpler and didnt get all these vaccines and medicines, as well as eating homegrown or locally grown foods, they were happier and healthier.

Not going to argue with you, but the data says that the flu shot is not only ineffective, its poison.
Click to expand...
Godalmighty.

You really need to educate yourself. None of what you just posted here is true, not even close.

Vaccines have NOTHING to do with autism. There's not one shred of credible evidence to suggest such a thing. Nothing. One UK quack made this claim (which is what idiot Jenny McCarthy read and started mouthing off about) and was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be a liar. Yet what you posted here is based in his claims, if you take it back far enough.

Name a vaccine where there's credible proof that they are "bad". I'll hang up and listen.

I just listed some diseases....Measles, Whooping Cough, Mumps, Chicken Pox...that have made a comeback after being almost totally eradicated, simply because folks listened to people like Jenny McCarthy and stopped getting vaccines. Yeah, the government is out to get you. :shaking:

Here's the bottom line: The OVERWHELMING preponderance of evidence indicates that everyone should be vaccinated. If you are going to claim different, you need to back that up with some credible evidence that can refute DECADES of people getting vaccinated and not having diseases that used to kill/cripple people.

Remember when you got sick with Polio? Yeah, me neither. That's because you were VACCINATED against it. And if people stop getting these vaccinations, it can affect children who aren't old enough to have had them. Same with the flu. I survived the flu. But what if I was around an elderly person or a baby who could not survive it, and gave it to them? THAT is why you get all these vaccines. And no, the flu shot is NOT "poison", nor does any credible evidence show that it is. That is a total falsehood. Damn, people. :shaking:

Oh, and my "one BS chart"? It's numbers from the CDC. It's stone cold FACT.
 
BTW, the whole "vaccines cause Autism" lie was perpetrated by a lying liar named Andrew Wakefield.

"Manipulation of data[edit source]
On 8 February 2009, Brian Deer reported in The Sunday Times that Wakefield had "fixed" results and "manipulated" patient data in his 1998 paper, creating the appearance of a link with autism"

"On 24 May 2010, the GMC panel found Wakefield guilty of serious professional misconduct on four counts of dishonesty and 12 involving the abuse of developmentally challenged children, and ordered that he be struck off the medical register."

"Deer said that based upon documents he obtained under Freedom of information legislation,[94] Wakefield—in partnership with the father of one of the boys in the study—had planned to launch a venture on the back of an MMR vaccination scare that would profit from new medical tests and "litigation driven testing".[95] The Washington Post reported that Deer said that Wakefield predicted he "could make more than $43 million a year from diagnostic kits" for the new condition, autistic enterocolitis.[94] WebMD reported on Deer's BMJ report, saying that the $43 million predicted yearly profits would come from marketing kits for "diagnosing patients with autism" and "the initial market for the diagnostic will be litigation-driven testing of patients with AE [autistic enterocolitis, an unproven condition concocted by Wakefield] from both the UK and the USA".[96] According to WebMD, the BMJ article also claimed that the venture would succeed in marketing products and developing a replacement vaccine if "public confidence in the MMR vaccine was damaged".[96]"

So he was a lying thief who has put everyone at risk that still believes the lie that vaccines have a thing to do with autism. He was proven to be a liar, his data was totally discredited and not a single thing he reported on was true.

Yet still, right here on NC4x4 today, people are posting incorrect information that can be directly linked to his lies. That is the kind of damage that can be done on the internet today. Pretty sad.

Edit: I will say, sorry to the admins if I come on kind of strong with this stuff, but this kind of ridiculousness is dangerous and really needs to be stomped out as quickly as possible, IMO.
 
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@Pacfanweb Dont get me wrong. I am absolutely for vaccinations. The MMR, polio, tetanus, etc are absolutely 100% Warranted. The flu vaccine on the other hand is a different story.
 
Pacfanweb said:
Godalmighty.

You really need to educate yourself. None of what you just posted here is true, not even close.

Vaccines have NOTHING to do with autism. There's not one shred of credible evidence to suggest such a thing. Nothing. One UK quack made this claim (which is what idiot Jenny McCarthy read and started mouthing off about) and was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be a liar. Yet what you posted here is based in his claims, if you take it back far enough.

Name a vaccine where there's credible proof that they are "bad". I'll hang up and listen.

I just listed some diseases....Measles, Whooping Cough, Mumps, Chicken Pox...that have made a comeback after being almost totally eradicated, simply because folks listened to people like Jenny McCarthy and stopped getting vaccines. Yeah, the government is out to get you. :shaking:

Here's the bottom line: The OVERWHELMING preponderance of evidence indicates that everyone should be vaccinated. If you are going to claim different, you need to back that up with some credible evidence that can refute DECADES of people getting vaccinated and not having diseases that used to kill/cripple people.

Remember when you got sick with Polio? Yeah, me neither. That's because you were VACCINATED against it. And if people stop getting these vaccinations, it can affect children who aren't old enough to have had them. Same with the flu. I survived the flu. But what if I was around an elderly person or a baby who could not survive it, and gave it to them? THAT is why you get all these vaccines. And no, the flu shot is NOT "poison", nor does any credible evidence show that it is. That is a total falsehood. Damn, people. :shaking:

Oh, and my "one BS chart"? It's numbers from the CDC. It's stone cold FACT.
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Futbalfantic said:
@Pacfanweb Dont get me wrong. I am absolutely for vaccinations. The MMR, polio, tetanus, etc are absolutely 100% Warranted. The flu vaccine on the other hand is a different story.
Click to expand...

Like I said, not going to argue, but the data is out there, go find it and youll be healthier by doing so.

Im all for the proven effective and SAFE vaccines. The flu vaccine however, is not one of those.
 
Futbalfantic said:
@Pacfanweb Dont get me wrong. I am absolutely for vaccinations. The MMR, polio, tetanus, etc are absolutely 100% Warranted. The flu vaccine on the other hand is a different story.
Click to expand...
You know those links you posted earlier pretty much prove my point, right? Read the articles and not the headlines. Headlines are often misleading.

The Cochrane link:

"Authors' conclusions:
Healthy adults who receive inactivated parenteral influenza vaccine rather than no vaccine probably experience less influenza, from just over 2% to just under 1% (moderate-certainty evidence). They also probably experience less ILI following vaccination, but the degree of benefit when expressed in absolute terms varied across different settings. "

Also in that link:

"We were unable to determine the impact of bias on about 70% of the included studies due to insufficient reporting of details."

So it's really not much of a relevant report, since 70% of their data was admittedly incomplete.

The link that says getting a flu shot every year might blunt the effectiveness, the reasoning is that the old antibodies from last year's shot might still be strong enough to wipe out what the new shot gives you before your body develops new antibodies. That's not a case for not getting the shot...maybe for getting one every other year instead of every year, but again...the data is VERY much inconclusive and it even said more study was needed. Can't count that one as anywhere near the gospel yet.
 
JSJJ388 said:
Like I said, not going to argue, but the data is out there, go find it and youll be healthier by doing so.

Im all for the proven effective and SAFE vaccines. The flu vaccine however, is not one of those.
Click to expand...
Yes, the data IS out there. And it proves what I am saying, and very little of the CREDIBLE data proves what you are saying.

Are flu vaccines safe?
Flu vaccines have good safety record. Hundreds of millions of Americans have safely received flu vaccines over the past 50 years, and there has been extensive research supporting the safety of flu vaccines.

A flu vaccine is the first and best way to reduce your chances of getting the flu and spreading it to others. CDC recommends that everyone 6 months of age and older receive a flu vaccine every year.
Click to expand...

There is no evidence that the small amounts of thimerosal in flu vaccines cause any harm, except for minor reactions like redness and swelling at the injection site. Although no evidence suggests that there are safety concerns with thimerosal, vaccine manufacturers have stopped using it as a precautionary measure. Flu vaccines that do not contain thimerosal are available (in single dose vials).
Click to expand...

Again, there is no credible evidence (and I am willing to consider and investigate any you may provide, other than "yes the data is out there") that flu vaccine is dangerous or "poison". That is just total BS and not supported by any known facts that the medical community accepts.
 
Pacfanweb said:
Yes, the data IS out there. And it proves what I am saying, and very little of the CREDIBLE data proves what you are saying.





Again, there is no credible evidence (and I am willing to consider and investigate any you may provide, other than "yes the data is out there") that flu vaccine is dangerous or "poison". That is just total BS and not supported by any known facts that the medical community accepts.
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Whatever man. Keep chugging the koolaide and getting sick. I'll eat out of my garden and stay out of the Drs office, and stay healthy.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
 
I 100% agree with vaccinaton for preventable disease and stop just short of saying they should be mandatory.

However an influenza "vaccine" isn't the same.

To be clear I do not subscribe to BS theories that it causes autism, impairs speech, disforms gonads or other crazy drivel.

I do choose not to get a flu vaccine for this reason only.
My sister is a Pharmacist and a damn smart one. Graduated top of her class and has been paid personally by the government to head a research team specifically on human vaccination. She wants it to be legal to shoot and kill McCarthy and her followers, however she doesnt get the flu "vaccine" nor do any of her 4 kids. There are 6 PharmDs on this research board. None take the flu vaccine, and havent in the 4 years since this clinic began.

I'm not going to attempt to explain the why to you, because I am not smart enough. She loses me sometime around the half way point of my 1st beer during these conversations. The closest I can come is to say its analagous to the Super Bug theory. That AT BEST a flu "vaccine" may good for the individual and bad for the herd. At worst it is bad for the individual and bad for the herd.
 
JS wasn't directly saying that autism is caused by vaccines but more of modern society as a whole. Not going to argue his point.

Wakefield is a complete idiot and did untold amounts of harm to society and if we are not careful will bring back serious diseases that can criple our country.

I'm not sure how you say the conchrane collaboration and Medscape are not creditable sources.

@obullfish
It's a risk benefit thing. Some reading here if you do get tetanus.

Tetanus Treatment & Management: Approach Considerations, Initial Supportive Therapy and Wound Care, Pharmacologic Therapy

"Patients should be admitted into the ICU"
"67% of patients require intubation and ventilation"

https://www.emedicinehealth.com/tetanus/article_em.htm

"25%-50% of patients will die"
(Another sources saying 10-20%)
Per the CDC 30 cases a year on average

Surveillance Manual | Tetanus | Vaccine Preventable Diseases | CDC
 
Ron said:
I 100% agree with vaccinaton for preventable disease and stop just short of saying they should be mandatory.

However an influenza "vaccine" isn't the same.

To be clear I do not subscribe to BS theories that it causes autism, impairs speech, disforms gonads or other crazy drivel.

I do choose not to get a flu vaccine for this reason only.
My sister is a Pharmacist and a damn smart one. Graduated top of her class and has been paid personally by the government to head a research team specifically on human vaccination. She wants it to be legal to shoot and kill McCarthy and her followers, however she doesnt get the flu "vaccine" nor do any of her 4 kids. There are 6 PharmDs on this research board. None take the flu vaccine, and havent in the 4 years since this clinic began.

I'm not going to attempt to explain the why to you, because I am not smart enough. She loses me sometime around the half way point of my 1st beer during these conversations. The closest I can come is to say its analagous to the Super Bug theory. That AT BEST a flu "vaccine" may good for the individual and bad for the herd. At worst it is bad for the individual and bad for the herd.
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See, now someone like her I'd be glad to listen to and consider their opinion. I know that even in the medical community there are folks on both sides, which is why I like to look at the overall numbers, since they are what the are and are not an opinion.

What I do know is this: Between 80-90% of children that die from the flu did not have the shot. That number is pretty consistent. It's good enough for me. Numbers and outcomes matter the most, IMO. If new data comes out that refutes this, or shows it's changing, then you adjust your opinion accordingly. This isn't a subject where you stake out an opinion and stick with it no matter what. You know, like Chevy motors being better than Fords. ;) (we all know that's a fact anyway, lol)
 
Back to the OP's question...
Yes, illness has been worse this year for my family and me. I have gotten the flu shot every year for many years now. Ironically, I was the only one to get the flu shot this year and I have been the only one (so far, knock on wood) to get the flu. My doc told me numbers that the flu shot is only about 10-20% effective this year (I guess that means effective at preventing?). That being said, I will still get one next year. Flu symptoms (fever, chills, aching, etc.) lasted about 3-4 days, then it was typical sore throat and coughing. That was mid January.
 
Futball: I said the Cochrane link (first one, I thing) didn't really back up what you said. I posted quotes from it that show it wasn't really a conclusion at all. Not saying the organization itself isn't credible. But that article isn't from the standpoint that you were saying it shows you shouldn't get vaccinated.
 
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