URE workday.. what really happened. thru my eyes

[BRUISER]

So I went to the "BIG" workday at URE this weekend with high hopes to see a lot of work get done so I could say I was wrong and FoU is great and we need to all move forward with helping Eli and the group.

I am sorry to say that did not happen and never will with Eli in charge. can he make some cool stickers and maps and shirts.. Sure.. can he lead Hell NO.. actually he was even asked at one point by someone what is next and what is to be done and he said: "I am the equipment operator not the coordinator"

So here is how I saw the full day off saturday.. ( this wil be long )

Myself and 3 others got to Hunt camp at 835am and just hung out till others arrived. at finally 935am Debbie the forest ranger started to talk and give instructions on safety, etc. then at 10am we split into groups.. our groups 1st task was to go load up guard rail into a Deuce and then take it and meet Eli and others at parking lot on top of wolfs den then go down to dutch john and start installing it.

well when we got to parking area Eli was not around to be found and we also found out that our entire group was sent to do this but there was no one to be in charge of our group, so no one knew what to do once we got to parking area.. we asked but no one knew then one of the forest service truck showed up and got in front of our group so our group followed him to Art lilley camp ground and when we asked him were to go he said he had no idea and was just driving by.. GREAT

so we head back and decided we should just go to the marked area on dutch john.. short version; all went well until deuce got stuck on trailer, at the point we see the bobcats are now behind us some how on the trail.. they came up and helped free the deuce and we moved on..

it is now 11:35am

next we get to a log bridge area and the bobcats stop (Eli and someone else) decide that we should all stop there and fix this bridge and the other bobcat is going to go ahead and work on a mud hole and then go up to install guard rail. only people ahead of bobcats are deuce with one guy in it and the ranger Debbie and her husband and then 2 others..

I go talk to Eli and tell him there are 14 or more of us behind him and we should split up and some go help the others ahead and the rest fix this bridge we do not need 14 people and a bobcat to fix this bridge.. well after much discuss he finals says ok and lets some of us by.

well needless to say we get to the location to install guard rail and the other bobcat has to now switch from a bucket to the post hole digger and then as deuce tries to go up the hill all the guard rail , etc fall out into trail ( not where it was supposed to go ).

so now we have to pick it all back up and load it back up.. good thing we split up so we could all help load it again..

we also realize the bolts for the guard rail are back with other group and the cable to fix log bridge is with group we are in.. so after much driving back and forth to get everythign to where it is supposed to be ( IE: no leadership or organization at all ) we get to work..

it is now 1pm

just as we are putting up first guard rail section eli shows up and he threw a track on bobcat back at log bridge work area. so one bobcat is down and to that point my understanding was no work had been done there yet..

then we continue on and get another guard rail installed and the bobcat goes up the trail and then throws a track on his.. GREAT.. so we installed 2 sections of guard rail and now have no bobcats to work with.. and yes I honestly believe it was operator error not bobcat error.. No I did not see Eli throw his but I watched the other guy with our group and if I owned that bobcat he would never ever drive it period.. he was tearing it up..

it is now 2pm

at this point a few people worked on the bobcat trying to get it fixed.. and then myself, doug and 2 rangers decided to find other stuff to do .. so we went and worked on broken wood split rail and pulled nails from other broken pieces and repaired it all , then we need holes dug so I grabbed a post hole manual one and dug a hole for the new post.. then we worked on taking down old wire fencing and bundleing it, etc..trying to find other work to do since the bobcat was down..

we left the trail at 5pm to head home.. and on the way out as we got back to eldorado is when the storm hit.. so at 530pm the storm hit.. not before that .. so excuse that the storm messed up the workday is bullcrap. Yes I am sure it made it harder to get out.. but it did not affect the work during the day at all.

what messed up this workday was lack of leadership by our self appointed FoU president.. even if we had 40 or 50 people show up the work would still not have gotten done because the bobcats were broke..and yes I do believe it is due to operator error not the bobcats.

I busted my ass all day and kept asking what other work we could do and did it when given a task , from loading guard rail probably 4 times if you add in the times we had to reload and off load, etc and that shit is HEAVY. used manual post hole digger, cut down wire fence, help fix bobcat, shovel when needed etc..

so yes I was the one the told Eli we need to split up .. and if we had not then we would have only gotten one log bridge fixed.. how do I know this because I have installed 5 or more over the last 11 years.. those take time lots of time.. not a lot of people but a lot of time..

so Eli you can make any excuse you want but I went I saw and this is what took place.. total un organization.. my suggestion is you step aside and get some that actually can lead and understand how to manage people and projects and start over..

yes I am being brutally honest but I think it is time for the truth.

 

[Jeff B]

That sounds like some kinf of slap stick comedy.

 

[TheGriz]

I wish I had been there to help/see this first hand, but I do trust your observations Ken.
I think the intent of FoU is great, but I believe FoU is a bit misguided and perhaps not as effective as it could be. Here are my thoughts:

• There is already a collection of clubs that have a strong presence at URE and have good relationships with the FS. Granted some do more than others, but there is already a support structure and commitment from organizations to support Uwharrie. I think we need to build upon what we have rather than re-invent the wheel.
  
• I see the real value of FoU as a way to unite the clubs, NC4x4 forum members, and any independant parties that want to get involved. If FoU were more of a steering committee representing all these organizations/parties, it would provide a common voice and a way to organize the masses becoming more effective.
  
• I've only met Eli once. He seemed like a nice enough guy and his heart was in the right place. However, it seems that leadership and organization were an issue. As long as I can remember, work days have been a disorganized mess... to make this type of effort a success, the resources/tools/equipment need to be pre-allocated per each job and there needs to be someone accountable for each group that has a working knowlege of the tasks at hand. A detailed schedule/plan needs to be set from the start and priorities assigned. As issues happen, people/equipement can be re-allocated per the priorities. Leaving people to guess where they are supposed to go and do is a big issue.
  
• Big work days sound great, but I question the effectiveness without pre-planning and leadership within each sub-group of workers. Sure, better communication would have helped, but it sounds like people were under-utilized and lacked guidance.
  
• How was this event viewed by the FS? Did they think it was a cluster? I'm worried that if we don't all get organized and provide a professional response to trail adoption and support we'll look like a bunch of fools.

I have a lot of ideas around what I wish FoU was and how to get it there, but I'll wait for feedback on Ken's write up and my comments before proceeding.

 

[DRaider90]

Sure.. can he lead Hell NO.. actually he was even asked at one point by someone what is next and what is to be done and he said: "I am the equipment operator not the coordinator"

Please do let me know when you heard me say that. Because I didn't say anything to that effect. If I said anything close to that, it was in the context of dealing with the log bridge. That I haven't had much experience in depth re-building bridges, but I knew how to run the bobcat and get the logs popped up to help out.

Which ties into why I didn't just let everyone through while you kept telling me over and over again that there are X many people behind us. As if the deuce was rocket propelled and was going to get far ahead of us if we didn't stop and try to get things organized. If you remember I asked you and others the same question, does anyone here have experience repairing log bridges. I needed to find out who needed to stay and work on the bridge before I could let anyone go ahead. I didn't see you going around asking people if they had experience, the only thing you could tell me repeatedly is which vehicle had a winch. Because I wasn't going to leave a group working on the bridge that didn't know what they were doing. But you didn't care about that obviously.

well when we got to parking area Eli was not around to be found and we also found out that our entire group was sent to do this but there was no one to be in charge of our group, so no one knew what to do once we got to parking area.. we asked but no one knew then one of the forest service truck showed up and got in front of our group so our group followed him to Art lilley camp ground and when we asked him were to go he said he had no idea and was just driving by.. GREAT

Well I think you answered your own question:

our groups 1st task was to go load up guard rail into a Deuce and then take it and meet Eli and others at parking lot on top of wolfs den then go down to dutch john and start installing it.

You got the guard rail, and you took it to the parking area to meet up with me. Was I there? No. Was I getting the Bobcats transported to that parking area? Yes. I clearly stated while we were at Hunt Camp that Chris and I would be going to Arrowhead to get the Bobcats and would meet you guys at the Wolf Den trail head. So all you had to do was be a little patient and wait for us to get back. In hindsight I think Chris and I should have been allowed to go get the Bobcats while everyone was getting the safety talk at Hunt Camp, but that doesn't explain to me why you felt the need to go ahead and cause your own problems. If you had waited it wouldn't have happened. And without the Bobcats the work wasn't going to get done anyway, so you jumping the gun didn't solve anything. In case you missed it, the concept was that the time it took you guys to load the guard rail would be close to the time it took us to get the Bobcats to wolfs den, and we would leave there together.

 

[DRaider90]

so we head back and decided we should just go to the marked area on dutch john.. short version; all went well until deuce got stuck on trailer, at the point we see the bobcats are now behind us some how on the trail.. they came up and helped free the deuce and we moved on..

Wow, it ends up the Bobcats weren't that far behind. Because if you had just waited for us, there wouldn't been any confusion. Its really simple. And if you have a problem with patience and waiting, then the work days aren't for you.

next we get to a log bridge area and the bobcats stop (Eli and someone else) decide that we should all stop there and fix this bridge and the other bobcat is going to go ahead and work on a mud hole and then go up to install guard rail. only people ahead of bobcats are deuce with one guy in it and the ranger Debbie and her husband and then 2 others..

I go talk to Eli and tell him there are 14 or more of us behind him and we should split up and some go help the others ahead and the rest fix this bridge we do not need 14 people and a bobcat to fix this bridge.. well after much discuss he finals says ok and lets some of us by.

The original plan I proposed before the workday was that we started on Slab Pile then worked down Dutch John from the hill climb. But when I got there Friday, the work on Slab Pile had been put on the bottom of the "priority list". So we had to change plans. So Saturday morning the new "original plan" that myself, Chris, Deborah, and Rodney decided on was that we would keep the group in the same general area. We would split up, but the groups would be on the same end of the trail. The first group would have been on the first bridge crossing fixing it, then the 2nd group would have been on the 2nd bridge crossing (within walking distance of the first one), and so on. Then when each group finished, they would leapfrog over each other and work on the next job. If anything the Deuce would go ahead and drop off rail where it was needed, and by the time all that was done we would have a group up there to help install the rail.

I didn't decide to split the Bobcats up in the fashion that it was. Deborah decided that. Chris was supposed to head up to the mud hole (the next job after the bridges) and I was going to meet him up there after I helped pop the logs free. Chris was relaying to me what Deborah had decided. That the Bobcat he was driving would go ahead with the deuce and I would be left to do the mud hole by myself. Which the mud hole was a 2 machine job. So in the middle of me trying to figure out who was experienced in the bridge repair the plan totally changed. And all I could get out of you was the fact we had X amount of vehicles, and who had a winch. Which was ok, but that didn't tell me who had experience working on the bridge so when I left the group knew what they were doing.

Eventually I said fine go ahead and we will figure this out without you. Because you weren't helping the situation you were making it worse. You didn't care if the people working on the bridge had any idea what they were doing, you just wanted to race ahead and wait essentially. It didn't kill the work efforts to stop and re-group after a major change had been made to the plans. And it ended up it was a good thing a majority of the group stay behind because the Bobcat blew a track. We needed people to work on the Bobcat while the others worked on the bridge. Its hard to re-group after the plans are changed when someone else is trying to play leader that has no idea what is going on.

And you didn't need to know the entire plan, and we didn't have time at hunt camp to sit there and go over it with each person. It took enough time going through the safety talk etc. People were told at the beginning where they needed to go, where they needed to meet up, to get things started and we would work on the sites as we moved along. Allowing us to adjust the plan, and make changes as we went along. So the plan would be relayed to the group as needed, as we completed projects. Very simply, "Ok we are done with this, now you need to go here, and this group needs to go here". Then plans changed, no big deal we will adapt the plan. But that can't be done when someone tires to jump in and push things in one direction, when we haven't even dealt with the situation at hand.

 

[DRaider90]

And in reality I think the Bobcat blew a track twice that I was driving (Chris blew a track on his, and then mine later when he operated it). The first time I backed up and went forward and it popped back on. The fact of it was the Bobcat I was driving had old worn out tracks that were coming apart, you can ask the Forest Service or anyone that worked on it. They called it the rubber band machine. So I don't care what you "think" happened, I know what happened because I was the one driving the Bobcat. Did you stop and look at the tracks on the machine and see the condition they were in? That they were cracked and split to the point the top drive sprocket was barely holding them on? Its what the rental company gave Chris, and we tried to make due with it. Because there weren't any other machines available to replace it with. A Bobcat with worn tracks was better than no bobcat. And the amount of work it did get done proves that (the mud hole etc).

well needless to say we get to the location to install guard rail and the other bobcat has to now switch from a bucket to the post hole digger and then as deuce tries to go up the hill all the guard rail , etc fall out into trail ( not where it was supposed to go ).

so now we have to pick it all back up and load it back up.. good thing we split up so we could all help load it again..

Deborah decided to change the plan. The original plan was to keep the groups working close together in case anything happened. And yeah the bobcat had to switch because the original plan was for him to help grade the mud hole long before the guard rail was going to be installed. So he need the bucket before the auger (or post hole digger as you call it).

we also realize the bolts for the guard rail are back with other group and the cable to fix log bridge is with group we are in.. so after much driving back and forth to get everythign to where it is supposed to be ( IE: no leadership or organization at all ) we get to work..

Once again the groups were supposed to remain together in the same general area. Did you check to see you had the bolts before you rushed off? Or were you too busy trying to play leader nagging me about being able to move on. You didn't give me or anyone else a chance to even think about the Bolts. We hadn't resolved the issue of getting the people needed on the bridge project, so anyone else could go forward. There was no plan to split up in the sense of having a group at the other end of the trail doing guard rail. And when Deborah made that change we weren't given the time to re-group because someone kept whining about how many people we had backed up. So next time let me do my damn job and have some patience. Just because you don't see the big picture doesn't mean there isn't one. Because its not your job to lead the group, and that exactly what you were trying to step in and do.

It wouldn't have killed the work day if we had spent a couple extra minutes to re-group and then you would of had your bolts and things would have gone smoother. You knew I was trying to figure out who we needed to stay on the bridge and who needed to go, but you didn't care. If you really wanted to help you would have helped me ask around on who had experience with the log bridges so we knew who to keep on the bridge and who to move forward to the next job. Which was supposed to be the next bridge crossing, not guardrail anyway.

 

[DRaider90]

just as we are putting up first guard rail section eli shows up and he threw a track on bobcat back at log bridge work area. so one bobcat is down and to that point my understanding was no work had been done there yet..

Your understanding was wrong. I had popped up the imbedded logs with the bobcat, and the main part of the group was working on the bridge. While a smaller group worked on trying to get the bobcat back on track. Because the bobcat popped a track as I was trying to navigate a large rock in the middle of the trail as I was leaving for the mud hole.

then we continue on and get another guard rail installed and the bobcat goes up the trail and then throws a track on his.. GREAT.. so we installed 2 sections of guard rail and now have no bobcats to work with.. and yes I honestly believe it was operator error not bobcat error.. No I did not see Eli throw his but I watched the other guy with our group and if I owned that bobcat he would never ever drive it period.. he was tearing it up..

I can't speak for Chris, and I didn't see how it happened. What I can say is he has shown in the past he can operate a Bobcat proficiently, and that is why he operated the T-190. Unlike the T-300 I was running the T-190 was brand new. So I don't know why it blew a track. Dutch John is a rough trail for equipment, so I am sure that had a big part to play in it.

we left the trail at 5pm to head home.. and on the way out as we got back to eldorado is when the storm hit.. so at 530pm the storm hit.. not before that .. so excuse that the storm messed up the workday is bullcrap. Yes I am sure it made it harder to get out.. but it did not affect the work during the day at all.

You really don't have a clue do you? Just because you left doesn't mean the work day ends. You have had so much experience in workdays in the past you should know this. The storm did effect the work day, because at 5pm we still had a little over 3 hours of daylight left to get more work done. The bridge group was still working while you decided to take off. I was working on getting the grease gun, and grease that we didn't have so we could fix the bobcats and get them going again. The T-300 did get fixed, and Chris took it to do the mud hole project. And as we are about to get the T-190 fixed it pours down rain. So now instead of getting the remaining guard rail installed we have to focus on getting the Bobcat's out of the trail. Because now its slick as sh*t, and we have to try and get the machines up the hill climb.

So due to the STORM we lost over 3 hours of work time. Those 3 hours didn't matter to you, because you weren't there. That speaks volumes right there, especially seeing how you "feel" about how things went. Other people left also, they had things to do which I understand completely. And they seem to understand how things went and why. I think you need to talk to the other people that stayed till 11:30PM to make sure the machines got out of the trails and back to a safe area. Deborah, her husband, and 5 others (including myself) stayed with the Bobcats and got them out. It turned into 6 people when Pete from the Forest Service had to get the Forest Service bulldozer to get the bobcats out. Actually make that 7 when officer Foote showed up to make sure we got everything taken care of safely.

so yes I was the one the told Eli we need to split up .. and if we had not then we would have only gotten one log bridge fixed.. how do I know this because I have installed 5 or more over the last 11 years.. those take time lots of time.. not a lot of people but a lot of time..

You weren't the one to decide that we were going to split up in the sense that we had 2 groups on different sides of the trails. Deborah decided that. You just decided to try and jump the gun and make matters worse. Because the plan wasn't to keep everyone at one log bridge. It was to keep everyone in the same general side of the trail. So you would have been moving on, to the next bridge to fix it. But Deborah decided otherwise. And whom ever else we didn't need on the first bridge would have went beyond your group and started on the next bridge. And beyond that Chris and I would have been working on the mud hole. By the time Chris and finished the mud hole, the 2 groups doing the minor repairs on the bridges (not the first group) would have been done and we would have moved forward. And when the 1st bridge group was done, they would have also. The guard rail would have gotten done, and there would have been plenty of people there to help.

But guess what? Plans change, machines break, and things don't go how they should have. If anything your impatience contributed to the problem. There was a plan, the plan changed, and you didn't want to give us time to adapt the plan to the new situations. Friday went very well, even when the deuce wasn't able to show up at 1pm which was the original plan. Because we took the time to adjust the plan, no one got impatient and we moved forward and worked on something else. We got 5 hours of work done very smoothly.

And if you were so concerned about how things went you would have stayed and helped get the Bobcats off the trail Saturday. You could have stayed or came back Sunday so we could have gotten a couple more things done on the list. Because I was there Friday, Saturday, Sunday. I worked the entire work weekend. You came for part of a workday and left, and decided you didn't like what you saw. Which was partially to blame on yourself. The forest service was happy in the amount of work we got done, even in light of what happened. They knew the plan, and understood what happened because they took part in the decisions that day. And it seems most of the other volunteers understood also even not knowing the full plan.

You had negativity to post before the work day, and you have something to complain about on the portion of the workday you attended. I don't hear and haven't heard anything positive coming out of you, and it really doesn't surprise me. I have been more than happy to answer all your questions before and after. And to be blunt you don't know what I do to plan these work days, and the efforts behind the scenes that goes on. There was a reason why it was myself, Deborah, Chris, and Rodney making the revised plan in the parking lot. Because we were the ones organizing it, and we had a plan. If you had stuck to the plan as it was relayed to you, things would have went a lot smoother. You on your own accord decided to try to change the course, and jump ahead of what was going on. If you had waited at Wolfs Den for us to show up with the other Bobcat you would have known where to go. I know you saw the one Bobcat sitting there that we had all ready dropped off. When we got to the bridge and Deborah changed the plans, if you had been patient and let me get re-grouped things would have went smoother. But you had to try and play chief and make the situation worse.

You come at me saying I don't know how to do my job, when you were trying to do my job for me. There is a reason why I organize the work days, and there is a reason why I was making decisions. But I can't do that job if someone else thinks they know better and tries to do my job for me. Next time you come at me saying I don't know how to do my job have some legitimate reasons that you weren't partially the cause of. My job is hard as it is, I don't need un-warranted whining from someone that has no idea of what is going on.

 

[BRUISER]

Please do let me know when you heard me say that. Because I didn't say anything to that effect. If I said anything close to that, it was in the context of dealing with the log bridge. That I haven't had much experience in depth re-building bridges, but I knew how to run the bobcat and get the logs popped up to help out.
Which ties into why I didn't just let everyone through while you kept telling me over and over again that there are X many people behind us. As if the deuce was rocket propelled and was going to get far ahead of us if we didn't stop and try to get things organized. If you remember I asked you and others the same question, does anyone here have experience repairing log bridges. I needed to find out who needed to stay and work on the bridge before I could let anyone go ahead. I didn't see you going around asking people if they had experience, the only thing you could tell me repeatedly is which vehicle had a winch. Because I wasn't going to leave a group working on the bridge that didn't know what they were doing. But you didn't care about that obviously.
Well I think you answered your own question:
You got the guard rail, and you took it to the parking area to meet up with me. Was I there? No. Was I getting the Bobcats transported to that parking area? Yes. I clearly stated while we were at Hunt Camp that Chris and I would be going to Arrowhead to get the Bobcats and would meet you guys at the Wolf Den trail head. So all you had to do was be a little patient and wait for us to get back. In hindsight I think Chris and I should have been allowed to go get the Bobcats while everyone was getting the safety talk at Hunt Camp, but that doesn't explain to me why you felt the need to go ahead and cause your own problems. If you had waited it wouldn't have happened. And without the Bobcats the work wasn't going to get done anyway, so you jumping the gun didn't solve anything. In case you missed it, the concept was that the time it took you guys to load the guard rail would be close to the time it took us to get the Bobcats to wolfs den, and we would leave there together.

Ok lets clear this up.. I heard you ask who had a winch so I went and looked and asked and found the Green jeep that was the 4th jeep behind us did, at the same time I could see 5 more rigs behind him with people in them and people standing outside of rigs and that was why I suggested the 4 rigs of people before the green jeep move on to help with the other section..
at which point you said we were to move on to where Chris was.. which was supposed to be at the next bridge crossing.. and when we moved on he was up at the guard rail..

I did not hear you say who has bridge experience.. maybe I missed it maybe you did not say it load enough..

sorry to say but by us continuing on did not cause us more work or issues.. what caused the issues was we had very long guard rail in the bed of the deuce trying to make a steep 90 degree turn and when he backed up the guard rail got stuck in the dirt.. even if you were ahead it would have still happened..

 

[BRUISER]

The original plan I proposed before the workday was that we started on Slab Pile then worked down Dutch John from the hill climb. But when I got there Friday, the work on Slab Pile had been put on the bottom of the "priority list". So we had to change plans. So Saturday morning the new "original plan" that myself, Chris, Deborah, and Rodney decided on was that we would keep the group in the same general area. We would split up, but the groups would be on the same end of the trail. The first group would have been on the first bridge crossing fixing it, then the 2nd group would have been on the 2nd bridge crossing (within walking distance of the first one), and so on. Then when each group finished, they would leapfrog over each other and work on the next job. If anything the Deuce would go ahead and drop off rail where it was needed, and by the time all that was done we would have a group up there to help install the rail.

I am sorry you do not have the experience working on log bridges but if we had actually done this plan we would have only gotten 2 log bridges fixed and that is it.. log bridges take lots of time to fix due to the nature of how they are built.. and if you expected Chris from the Deuce to unload all that guard rail him self then you would have ended up 2 people in the ER not just 1.

I didn't decide to split the Bobcats up in the fashion that it was. Deborah decided that. Chris was supposed to head up to the mud hole (the next job after the bridges) and I was going to meet him up there after I helped pop the logs free. Chris was relaying to me what Deborah had decided. That the Bobcat he was driving would go ahead with the deuce and I would be left to do the mud hole by myself. Which the mud hole was a 2 machine job. So in the middle of me trying to figure out who was experienced in the bridge repair the plan totally changed. And all I could get out of you was the fact we had X amount of vehicles, and who had a winch. Which was ok, but that didn't tell me who had experience working on the bridge so when I left the group knew what they were doing.
Eventually I said fine go ahead and we will figure this out without you. Because you weren't helping the situation you were making it worse. You didn't care if the people working on the bridge had any idea what they were doing, you just wanted to race ahead and wait essentially.

Again I answer the questions that I heard and made a suggestion for some of us to go ahead so we are not all stuck at one bridge, and yes when you asked who had a winch it sure sounded to me like you knew what you were doing and had a plan for the bridge and how to fix it.

It didn't kill the work efforts to stop and re-group after a major change had been made to the plans. And it ended up it was a good thing a majority of the group stay behind because the Bobcat blew a track. We needed people to work on the Bobcat while the others worked on the bridge. Its hard to re-group after the plans are changed when someone else is trying to play leader that has no idea what is going on.
And you didn't need to know the entire plan, and we didn't have time at hunt camp to sit there and go over it with each person. It took enough time going through the safety talk etc. People were told at the beginning where they needed to go, where they needed to meet up, to get things started and we would work on the sites as we moved along. Allowing us to adjust the plan, and make changes as we went along. So the plan would be relayed to the group as needed, as we completed projects. Very simply, "Ok we are done with this, now you need to go here, and this group needs to go here". Then plans changed, no big deal we will adapt the plan. But that can't be done when someone tires to jump in and push things in one direction, when we haven't even dealt with the situation at hand.

perfect example of poor leadership..

Obviously more people needed to know the plans because when anyone was asked where to go or what to do, no one knew what the plan was..
you can try to blame your short comings on me all you want but I was not the only one there watching this un organized group have no idea what to do, or what the plan is/was.

I am the only one willing to step forward and speak my mind..

 

[BRUISER]

And in reality I think the Bobcat blew a track twice that I was driving (Chris blew a track on his, and then mine later when he operated it). The first time I backed up and went forward and it popped back on. The fact of it was the Bobcat I was driving had old worn out tracks that were coming apart, you can ask the Forest Service or anyone that worked on it. They called it the rubber band machine. So I don't care what you "think" happened, I know what happened because I was the one driving the Bobcat. Did you stop and look at the tracks on the machine and see the condition they were in? That they were cracked and split to the point the top drive sprocket was barely holding them on? Its what the rental company gave Chris, and we tried to make due with it. Because there weren't any other machines available to replace it with. A Bobcat with worn tracks was better than no bobcat. And the amount of work it did get done proves that (the mud hole etc).

well I guess you answered this your self.. obviously a worn out bobcat is not better then no bobcat.

Deborah decided to change the plan. The original plan was to keep the groups working close together in case anything happened. And yeah the bobcat had to switch because the original plan was for him to help grade the mud hole long before the guard rail was going to be installed. So he need the bucket before the auger (or post hole digger as you call it).

Once again the groups were supposed to remain together in the same general area. Did you check to see you had the bolts before you rushed off? Or were you too busy trying to play leader nagging me about being able to move on. You didn't give me or anyone else a chance to even think about the Bolts. We hadn't resolved the issue of getting the people needed on the bridge project, so anyone else could go forward. There was no plan to split up in the sense of having a group at the other end of the trail doing guard rail. And when Deborah made that change we weren't given the time to re-group because someone kept whining about how many people we had backed up. So next time let me do my damn job and have some patience. Just because you don't see the big picture doesn't mean there isn't one. Because its not your job to lead the group, and that exactly what you were trying to step in and do.

once again if we did not split up no work would have gotten done except that one bridge..

as for the bolts.. nope I did not check because we put the guard rail in Deuce and auger bit in the dodge pickup.. seems to me that would have been a good place to have the bolts when we all left the hunt camp.. not some other random jeep.. ( but that is called planning )

I am going to be very Blunt here.. if you are this President leader you want to be or say you are then you would have said hold one minute.. lets make a plan and figure out what the next step is..

as for whining.. do not even get me started..

It wouldn't have killed the work day if we had spent a couple extra minutes to re-group and then you would of had your bolts and things would have gone smoother. You knew I was trying to figure out who we needed to stay on the bridge and who needed to go, but you didn't care. If you really wanted to help you would have helped me ask around on who had experience with the log bridges so we knew who to keep on the bridge and who to move forward to the next job. Which was supposed to be the next bridge crossing, not guardrail anyway.

Again you thought I knew you wanted that question answered and I did not, so you can state whatever you want but I did not know that.

 

[BRUISER]

I can't speak for Chris, and I didn't see how it happened. What I can say is he has shown in the past he can operate a Bobcat proficiently, and that is why he operated the T-190. Unlike the T-300 I was running the T-190 was brand new. So I don't know why it blew a track. Dutch John is a rough trail for equipment, so I am sure that had a big part to play in it.

Well I can speak from what I saw and witnessed and I stand by if it was my bobcat he would never be behind the controls

You really don't have a clue do you? Just because you left doesn't mean the work day ends. You have had so much experience in workdays in the past you should know this. The storm did effect the work day, because at 5pm we still had a little over 3 hours of daylight left to get more work done. The bridge group was still working while you decided to take off. I was working on getting the grease gun, and grease that we didn't have so we could fix the bobcats and get them going again. The T-300 did get fixed, and Chris took it to do the mud hole project. And as we are about to get the T-190 fixed it pours down rain. So now instead of getting the remaining guard rail installed we have to focus on getting the Bobcat's out of the trail. Because now its slick as sh*t, and we have to try and get the machines up the hill climb.

actually I do have a clue and that is why I am calling you out.
Yes I had to leave before it got dark.. and the official workday ended.. I am not saying I did not.. what I was stating is that you posted like the storm wrecked the entire day which it did .. what wrecked the day was crap bobcats and bobcat operator( the one i saw ) and poor management.

as for the T-190 I know it got fixed because I was one of the ones that helped get the track back lined up and then they filled it with what little grease we had and they were waiting on more grease to arrive.

So due to the STORM we lost over 3 hours of work time. Those 3 hours didn't matter to you, because you weren't there. That speaks volumes right there, especially seeing how you "feel" about how things went. Other people left also, they had things to do which I understand completely. And they seem to understand how things went and why. I think you need to talk to the other people that stayed till 11:30PM to make sure the machines got out of the trails and back to a safe area. Deborah, her husband, and 5 others (including myself) stayed with the Bobcats and got them out. It turned into 6 people when Pete from the Forest Service had to get the Forest Service bulldozer to get the bobcats out. Actually make that 7 when officer Foote showed up to make sure we got everything taken care of safely.

what speaks volumes is that clubs donated money to a project that was piss poor managed from the start..which in all reality is proven by what took place at this workday.

and if you think you are 1st to stay till the very end to make sure something is done you are wrong.. that is what I believe is part of the issue.. you act like this is the 1st time we have ever had large workdays.. and it is NOT.. you need to talk to people that have been around before Deborah was the ranger and see you are not the 1st and will not be the last.

as for her husband he diverse a metal in my eyes.. he was out there to support his wife and help her get around all day and he worked his butt off trying to get the T-190 fixed. Shout I even saw Deborah lifting more guard rail and wood etc then some of the guys just standing around.

You weren't the one to decide that we were going to split up in the sense that we had 2 groups on different sides of the trails. Deborah decided that. You just decided to try and jump the gun and make matters worse. Because the plan wasn't to keep everyone at one log bridge. It was to keep everyone in the same general side of the trail. So you would have been moving on, to the next bridge to fix it. But Deborah decided otherwise. And whom ever else we didn't need on the first bridge would have went beyond your group and started on the next bridge. And beyond that Chris and I would have been working on the mud hole. By the time Chris and finished the mud hole, the 2 groups doing the minor repairs on the bridges (not the first group) would have been done and we would have moved forward. And when the 1st bridge group was done, they would have also. The guard rail would have gotten done, and there would have been plenty of people there to help.
But guess what? Plans change, machines break, and things don't go how they should have. If anything your impatience contributed to the problem.

Again I will say if we had done your plan we would have gotten maybe 2 log bridges fixed and that is it. because remember we did not even get to the 1st log crossing until 11am and you stated it took 5hrs to fix it..

HAHA I caused the problems.. son you need to talk to others that you do not hang out with and ask for there honest opinion.. because you are way off basis with this..

There was a plan, the plan changed, and you didn't want to give us time to adapt the plan to the new situations. Friday went very well, even when the deuce wasn't able to show up at 1pm which was the original plan. Because we took the time to adjust the plan, no one got impatient and we moved forward and worked on something else. We got 5 hours of work done very smoothly.
And if you were so concerned about how things went you would have stayed and helped get the Bobcats off the trail Saturday. You could have stayed or came back Sunday so we could have gotten a couple more things done on the list. Because I was there Friday, Saturday, Sunday. I worked the entire work weekend. You came for part of a workday and left, and decided you didn't like what you saw. Which was partially to blame on yourself. The forest service was happy in the amount of work we got done, even in light of what happened. They knew the plan, and understood what happened because they took part in the decisions that day. And it seems most of the other volunteers understood also even not knowing the full plan.

sorry to say I could not have stayed.. for one I have a 1 and 3 year old at home that will always come before any workday or anything out there in this world. Second I road down with someone else so I would not have had a way home. and 3rd I did not have a nice comfy cabin to stay in.

You had negativity to post before the work day, and you have something to complain about on the portion of the workday you attended. I don't hear and haven't heard anything positive coming out of you, and it really doesn't surprise me. I have been more than happy to answer all your questions before and after. And to be blunt you don't know what I do to plan these work days, and the efforts behind the scenes that goes on. There was a reason why it was myself, Deborah, Chris, and Rodney making the revised plan in the parking lot. Because we were the ones organizing it, and we had a plan. If you had stuck to the plan as it was relayed to you, things would have went a lot smoother. You on your own accord decided to try to change the course, and jump ahead of what was going on. If you had waited at Wolfs Den for us to show up with the other Bobcat you would have known where to go. I know you saw the one Bobcat sitting there that we had all ready dropped off. When we got to the bridge and Deborah changed the plans, if you had been patient and let me get re-grouped things would have went smoother. But you had to try and play chief and make the situation worse.
You come at me saying I don't know how to do my job, when you were trying to do my job for me. There is a reason why I organize the work days, and there is a reason why I was making decisions. But I can't do that job if someone else thinks they know better and tries to do my job for me. Next time you come at me saying I don't know how to do my job have some legitimate reasons that you weren't partially the cause of. My job is hard as it is, I don't need un-warranted whining from someone that has no idea of what is going on.

before the workday I questioned the money and why you needed it, or why you wanted money so you could stay in a nice cabin with A/c.. all valid questions and I still stand by them.. to this day I do not think bobcats are the answer I think there are others ways around this and the options have been stated but that was not your plan so you stuck with your plan that failed.

I may not know exactly what you do to plan these but I bet I have a good idea.. remember I have been around for a while and I have planned other large events.. so trust me I know what it takes to plan large events and activities.

at hunt camp I did not step in and try to organize that was not my job it was yours and I let you.. when we got to wolf den parking lot I was not in the 1st rig that followed the forest service truck I was behind the deuce so we followed.. even Deborah followed us.. so why would we not follow them, if we did not then the entire group would have been split again..

the reason why you manage the workdays is because no one else stepped up to do so.

also as any good leader they would ask themselves how do i make this better and how do I learn from what others are saying.. not just call me a whiner..

maybe this is some food for thought..maybe not.. that is your choice

 

[Tech11]

Something else you might not understand/realize is the "backend" of the work days or the liaising which goes on with the FS. In total there were I think 4 maps total with 2 pages each that had all the work to be done, numbered and prioritized, and the numbers marked on the map, about lunchtime Saturday I realized one of those was in my Jeep.

A plan had been made by Terry, and Friday we got number 8 done, (which was the pictures I uploaded), I don't remember why we did that number in the list of projects, but that was the number she told us to do, and that's what we did.

Unless I'm mistaken we are working/volunteering FOR the FS. Deborah Walker is the Head Ranger the person in charge, and Terry and Pete and all the guys work with/for her as the FS. So to me what they tell US to do is what we do.

If the FS says do numbers 10, 2, 20, 4, 18, 5, in that order, and it makes no sense to you, that's the order they said to do it in, and if they call on your way to 2 and say go to 18 instead, that's where you should go.

From what I heard over the radios, is the plan that was made, the order that things were to be done was changed by the head ranger early into the project, and there was a "back up and punt" situation going on. It caused some problems, but that is the way she wanted it done, so be it.

There were 3 maps with instructions total, that were available from the FS for the work day, it would have been 4 but a set was left in my jeep from when I went to the ER. Shit Happens.

Each worksite had flagging with the work to be done written on the flagging, but that's neither here nor there.

As for the stickers and shirts and all the "wastes of time" you hate so much, have you ever heard of esprit de corps
?
You mentioned leaders of men a while a go, so surely you've heard of that. A lot of the regular volunteers appreciate those wastes of time, and it has piqued the interest of people on the trails and out in public. So what's the problem?Really?

You've been on Eli's case for as long as I can remember, whom do you have in mind for a replacement? Who else do you know that has been to every single work day since they started monthly? If the person was to start going monthly simply because they'd be "a leader of men" I believe their motives to be questionable at best, why would they have not stepped up before a position of "leadership" was brought forward?

I do not believe volunteers should be lead with an autocratic or authoritarian style of leadership, I believe a lassiez faire style to work best. They're volunteers. They can show when they want to, and leave when they want to, do as much or as little work as they want to.

I think this medium equipment workday has shown us something, and I think we may go in an entirely different direction in the future. But it needs to be discussed with the FS and all that is involved with that.

 

[Peabo]

Here's my take on the day:

9am Hunt Camp - Folks just hanging out waiting. Not a big deal. Around 9:30ish Deborah starts to get everyones attention and goes over safety. We started off a bit late, that happens… things didn't get better though

Our group is told to goto the double parking lot and load the guardrails into the duece, cool, easy instructions. We get there, Deborah tells us which guardrails go where and we get it loaded. This is where the bolt bucket strays. It was placed into a Jeep that ended up at the bridge and not on the hill, more on that later. The duece follows the park truck towards Dutch John and ends up at the Art Lilley campground, oops, honest mistake. We turn around and head to the correct spot.

Once we got to the bridge, it was pushing 11:30 and not much has been done and I still don't know what I'm supposed to be doing, other than sit in Jeep and wait.

There was a good delay at the bridge and talk of us all working on it seemed to be way too many indians for the job though. Meanwhile, the duece is still heading up the hill.

The decision was made to send some people up Dutch to start on the guardrails, yay, I know where to go and what to do.

Well, not really… on the way to Dutch, it was decided that we drop straw bails as we go. While I follow the logic behind doing this, it caused everyone behind them to sit and wait on the trail, twiddling our thumbs. Duece is still heading up the trail…

We catch up with the Duece, only because he got hung up along the way.

Once we made it Dutch, 2 people went to change out the bucket for the auger and the rest had lunch.

We discovered the bolts for the guard rails where missing, sent a runner to look for them. Luckily, they where with the group on the bridge. Work started and was going well for the first 2 guard rails, till the bobcat tossed a track. Nobody knew for sure how to put the track back on. (not faulting anyone, just stating a fact). My Jeep was a the bottom of the hill, so I went back to the other group(no radio response) to get the grease gun once it was determined that we needed it. (made 4 trips back and forth)

Back at the bridge, myself, Chris and one other(sorry don't recall the name) managed to get the track back on the t300.
I have to give Chris props though, he wasn't about to give up. I on the other hand, was just along for the ride at this point. Chris jumped into the bobcat and heading to the mud hole to do that work while we had a working machine. I went to check on the status of the grease with the bridge group. The bridge crew was finishing up and did a great job on it. A couple of them hadn't had lunch yet (didn't bring on the trail), so they headed off to camp to eat. I headed back to Dutch to put the other track on, but we didn't have enough grease to pump the track back up.

It's near 5pm now, it's unknown the status of the grease we need to fix the bobcat and my group needs to head out, so we collect our things and head off.

The day was frustrating in that I was ready to work at 9am and didn't start till after lunch. I'm not one to sit around all day and do nothing. Patience is one thing, but that's only good for 15-20minutes, longer if the wait is known. Most of the day was dealing with trying to figure out where to go and what to do(communication break down) and wrestling with bobcats.

I did learn how to fix the bobcat tread though…


Did some work get done, yes. I could've shown up at 1pm and not 9am to do it though. It looked like total chaos from my point of view. People management and transporting of equipment needs to be better thought out before hand. It does no good to have people standing around (or sitting in a Jeep on a trail) wondering what to do. I understand that unexpected stuff happens, but it's how you handle the unexpected that matters. There happened to be a lot of unexpected on Saturday, which leads me to believe it was more of a planning/organization issue than random problems. I felt like I was wasting my time most of the day. In the end work got done, but I'll have to think twice about donating my day to FoU again unless the planning/organization gets hashed out.

 

[Spence]

TL;DR

 

[BigClay]

TL;DR

x2

 

[biggoofy]

TL;DR

x3

maybe I can step in here in a few months and really start helping out as I will only be living 15 min from uwharrie.

 

[thecarman]

I'm going to have to echo Bruiser and Peabo on this. Way more organization is needed.

Tech11 - "lassiez faire" will not work here. People need to be told exactly what to do. And there needs to be one or more people in charge to do that.

I think the planning that was done ahead of time was *fantastic*. But I think it could have been handled better the day of the event. I feel like if the plan could have been explained to more people, these items could have been worked out. For instance - we loaded the Deuce in the double-parking lot and then drove to Wolf Den and drove the whole lenght of Dutch John to end up at the bottom of the hillclimb. We should have jumped on Rocky Mount from the double parking lot, then hit Dutch John from there, since most of the guardrail needed to be dropped at the top of the hillclimb. Then after offloading the guardrail we could have loaded the Deuce with the splitrail fence supplies that were there at the hillclimb, and the Deuce and a few people take them to the split rail install locations near Wolf Den. This was all done backwards on Saturday.

Eli - what I saw at the bridge before the group split up was you just sitting there in the Bobcat. You have very strong opinions and plans posted here now for what you wanted to do, and about what you were thinking at that time. You should have said what you were thinking right then, when people were asking you what to do and giving suggestions. Even just to say "everyone calm down and wait a minute while we organize" would have been enough. It came off like you had no plan, and that's when other people started to make suggestions.

I am sorry to say that based on this experience, CNC won't be participating in FoU efforts in the near future or donating money to them. This workday was a feeler for us, to see how it went with FoU, including organization, and how well the money spent on equipment was utilized. We'll continue to organize our own piece of work with the Forest Service and bring our own rented equipment at a few workdays a year, as we have in the past.

Eli - I am surprised at your response to feedback on the workday. Yes, it is natural to get frustrated at criticism, but if you really think the issues at this workday were all beyond your control, then it's never going to get any better.

 

[Tech11]

There would have been more people who knew what was going on, but I was in a tent on drugs. So there would have been more people communicating, saying who needs to go where, and knew what some semblance of the plan was. Would it have been any better, slightly.

Plans were changed at the last minute from what he had been arranged for, so that threw a wrench into the works. This happens working with the FS I am finding out.

I would have gone home, but my tent was the tent Eli was sleeping in. So I stayed, so he'd have a place to stay. I had drugs and FA supplies, so I was mostly set.

The guardrail and splitrail would have been in place had we had the deuce on time and had I not used my thumb for a bucket rest. I believe that was our plan Friday evening.

general concept is to start on Slab Pile, then work Dutch John, break for lunch, then work on Rocky Mnt Loop. The leap frog effect is what would end up taking place. We would keep the groups working in the same vicinity on different sites. When one group got done they would move onto the next project. Say the other group infront of them isn't done, they will "leap frog" over them and start on the next job. When the behind group gets done they will then leap frog over the next group that just moved up and start on the next site. Etc Etc Etc.
But the key to this whole work weekend is getting the prep work done Friday. Currently we will be doing the split rail install, hauling guard rail and posts, plus possibly moving rock. If we get a lot of work done Friday in prep for Saturday we will be set

As for the taking it critically, it just seems that when you go to every single work day and the FS and a lot of people seem happy with what you are doing, and a select few are constantly crapping on what you do, I'm not sure how to take it. There's a poll, and I've not seen anyone vote bad in it.

edited to post original plans there were plans, and I think had we had things in place Friday and I was available Saturday it would have been a bit smoother.

 

[trailhugger]

There would have been more people who knew what was going on, but I was in a tent on drugs. So there would have been more people communicating, saying who needs to go where, and knew what some semblance of the plan was.

If your '2nd in command' is out of the game, you need to recruit a replacement or at least disseminate more information to the group.

People don't look to a 'leader' for the details he keeps to himself...

 

[Der_Rock]

$$$$$

I'd like to know how much money was raised, how much was spent, on what, how much is left, and what is being done with the leftovers.

Maybe this was already posted and if so, my appologies. I looked around in multiple posts and did not see it, talked to another and he did not either. This is CRITICAL INFORMATION immediatly after an event if you are taking people's personal money. Again, if I missed it, sorry, please point us in the direction to such post.

 

[TheGriz]

I'm beyond the blame game. I feel as though the criticism was initially taken as an attack rather than as constructive and it has since snowballed.

I am a bit surprised nobody wants to comment on my suggestions... my suggestions are truly intended to help FoU succeed and ultimately keep our trails open. I feel that FoU is missing the boat and missing out on the YEARS of experience that multiple clubs have gained in working with the current rangers, previous rangers, as well as working with each other.

Personally, I was on the defensive from the start when FoU decided to do this (planning, organizing, etc) on their own, as I understand that is not how FoU was initially envisioned.

 

[rodney eppes]

PATIENCE ?

Speaking of Patience, Eli, must be the most. He's got a BIG can of it. How many others would take the bashing, he does. He's got the JOB no one else would take. No, he's not perfect, & by far is the FS. Most work days, have followed this routine for as long as I've been attending. Yes, I have gripped about things too. Its just going to be that way. T he old saying, " like it , or leave it. Sorry if you want to leave it! A single group/club, probably will get their work done. "Small group, single objective, single direction from FS. I respect the comments, & answers, from Tech 11. My only other comment, is, I believe the work days need to be downsized, as to the way they used to work. Seemed work got done, & much less bitching, with some ride time, as a reward. I WORK, for my Boss; I Volunteer, for the FS!

 

[Der_Rock]

i don't know if the following comments were in response to mine or not, but if so then I don't see how mine were "blame game" or "bashing." It's an honest question about monies (which were not brought up so not part of a "game") that everyone should be asking in my opinion.

If you ask (Eli) for people's hard earned money and then do not report on the outcome of such budget and what was done with the leftovers, then I guess you just like throwing your money away. I don't think that would be the case with most people giving money so in that assumed case it is a valid question that should be stated without having to be asked! That's not bashing, that's just common sense. I for one did not contribute money based on Eli's proposed budget since I did not agree with it blindly (and after asking questions did not like his answers). That does not mean that those that did should take it on faith that the remainder was not pocketed by Eli. That is not an accusation, but given no record given it is a smart question EVERYONE SHOULD BE ASKING. Anyone that gives a single individual money and doesn't care what happened to it is either rich or a fool (even the rich aren't fools and would not be so blind).

So bash on ME for saying so (and I'll defend hopefully with grace), but don't call me a basher for asking on those people's behalf.

Mostly I ask because those that didn't donate for various reasons will NOT donate in the future without this information. You can't make a bad execution better by giving yourself (or each other) accolades.

 

[DRaider90]

I am not going to argue anymore about what happened on the workday. I have been polite and taken sh*t thrown in my face enough, if there was some "constructive criticism" in that original post/attack I didn't see it. Posting a "its something to think about" at the end doesn't make it "constructive criticism". I am going to leave it at that, and that is it. Here is what I saw happen on Saturday:

I planned this workday down to the T, and presented all my work to the Forest Service. From my understanding before I went up there Friday that it had to be discussed by my plan sounded on track. I arrive Friday to find out things have changed, my plan had been scrapped. I was a little upset but no big deal, the Forest Service was going to determine what we were doing. The prep work was put on hold because the Deuce broke down, so we worked on site #8. We logged 5 hours of work, which is about a normal workday. So all ready we have accomplished a workdays worth of work. Then the deuce showed up, and we figured we would resume prep work. I messed up Brain thumb with the Bobcat, so that ended the prep work. That was a stressful event in itself.

The next morning I am expecting to hear from the Forest Service how they want to run the workday, because from my understanding the day before my plans had been scrapped. I get there to talk with the Forest Service, and I am told we rented the equipment so therefore we were in charge of how it got used etc. So right there on the spot I had to come up with a new plan, because there were still changes made to the priority list. I saw this as a good thing but I had to come up with an alternate plan on the spot. By this time everyone was looking at me, and most looked like they had enough of the safety talk and wanted to get to work.

Because in the past, it had been discussed about how we spend too much time at hunt camp. So I rolled with the punches and got our general plan made out of the priority list and the maps we had from Friday. That one group would load the guard rail on the deuce at the double parking lot, and while that happened Chris and I would get the Bobcats to the Wolfs Den trail head where we would all meet. I got to the trail head, and only a couple people were there. From what I am hearing Deborah was at the double parking lot (I wasn't told she was going to be there, let alone aware of the fact she was there) and when the guard rail group arrived at wolfs den (or where ever they ended up) Deborah kept going and led the group onto the trail. Maybe I am wrong but this is my understanding of what happened. I wasn't there, because the biggest priority was getting the equipment to the trails. Since the entire work weekend had been planned around them.

We got the Bobcats on the trail and headed out to catch up with the group. My plans on us re-grouping at the Wolfs Den trail head and getting some stuff sorted out fell through but all hope wasn't lost. At this point where the bolts ended up etc wasn't under my control. The Forest Service that helped load the materials was in charge of that. Like it or not that is the facts, there are people above me. We encountered the group that was sent to "drag the culvert out" which I wasn't aware of either. Once again someone else had directed one of the other groups. I don't know how the FS could have thought a still buried culvert was going to be dragged out, but when we showed up we clarified this with the group. It was on the list of work marked for July, so whom ever sent them their didn't read the list. Another thing out of my control.

We briefly re-grouped but everyone was in a hurry to catch up with the deuce. So we headed that way, and the Bobcats were used to help the deuce in a couple spots. But once again as soon as the Deuce got moving we got moving also. At this point I have no idea who is ahead of me, besides the deuce. I find out later Deborah is up there, directing the deuce etc. So finally I stop at the first area we need to work, the 1st bridge. The largest of the bridge projects, the other 2 were minor projects that wouldn't have taken more than an hour or two. I am not a bridge expert, but I do know the repairs listed for the other 2 projects were much smaller than a total re-construction of the bridge. Chris kept on going, to meet me later at the mud pit.

So finally I thought we would get to sit and re-group and start getting the groups split up. First I wanted to know who had a winch, and who knew/had an idea of what to do in re-construction on the bridge crossing. But before I could even get that information someone started repeatedly informing me that there were "14 rigs" behind us and they needed to get moving. He didn't know where they need to get to, but they needed to leave. Then I hear Chris on the radio telling me that Deborah has changed the plans. That I was to dig the mud hole alone, which everyone had agreed was a 2 machine job, and he was going ahead to install guard rail. So when I was told that it was our equipment rentals, so it was my job to decide what we worked on just got thrown out the window.

At this point I was beyond upset, because now the groups were split up beyond the point of radio communication. And beyond that I have no idea what supplies the other group has, and what supplies we have. Because the person that organized the supplies being loaded at the double parking lot didn't relay this information to me. We had 2 people playing leader and it wasn't working. At this point I am again reminded that there are "14 rigs" that need to get moving, and he needed to get moving even though he didn't know where. Instead of telling everyone to shut up, and that we needed to stop and re-group I got pissed off and decided to let them go ahead. That was my first mistake, and my biggest. I take responsibility for that.

From that point I got in the T-300 and popped the logs free so the bridge group could get to work. At that point we didn't have enough people to split up between the other sites, so I focused on getting to the mud hole to work on it. But I didn't get far, when navigating a boulder the Bobcat blew a track. I have operated Bobcats for years, but have never dealt with one blowing a track. I didn't know what to do, but I did remember the T-250 that CTB had blew a track a previous work day and they needed a grease gun. But out of our (NC4X4) multiple rentals we NEVER had blown a track. Not having been with the CTB group that workday, we heard it was due to the track being loose before they rented it. There was no concept of the track blew because of the rocks etc. After some people came over to help we decided we needed a pry bar also. At this point the 2nd group is out of radio communication range and we can't ask for a pry bar. The whole concept of keeping the group together has gone out the window, as to avoid this problem. This wasn't my decision. I do take responsibility for not having a grease gun, I should have had one knowing the T-250 had blown a track.

 

[DRaider90]

From this point one of the guys gave me a ride to the 2nd group to get a pry bar and see if they had a grease gun. They did not, and through Deborah's help we located one. We rode out to get the grease gun, and brought it back to the T-300. And this time we find out the T-190 has also blown a track. We also noticed when looking at the blown track that the tracks were so worn that the condition of the track was why it came off. I was informed that the tracks were low on tread by the rental company, but we were not aware that they were so bad that they were a risk to being blown out. In light of this we saved $300 of our $1,300 we raised. I wasn't around when Chris blew a track on the T-190 so I don't know how it happened. I do know Dutch John has more exposed rocks that most trails at URE, which we found out don't mix with tracks. I am sure that played some role in that.

We stayed with the T-300 and the group decided it would take releasing the tension on the track to get it back on. It was estimated by the group that 10 tubes of grease would be needed between both bobcats. We later found out that wasn't the case. So again we headed out to get grease. Keep in mind both times I am gone (an hour to a couple hours) the volunteers are left to decide what they do etc. Without Brian there to be 2nd in command it was left in the air. I assumed with the Bobcats blocking the trails there wasn't going to be much moving of the groups. But I was wrong, another mistake I made. The group ended up getting the track back on the T-300 without additional grease and Chris took off to take care of the mud hole. It took him around 4 hours, which is what we long on one machine on a average work day. So by now both the T-190 and T-300 have logged work equal to one workday. In reality what guard rail the T-190 did install was time logged above and beyond 1 work day.

The storm hits as we get the grease supply back on the trails. We find 2 trees blocking Dutch John, so we have to turn around. Trees start falling on the Jeep as we leave so we haul ass out of the trails. We make a quick trip to Arrowhead to pick up straps in case we encounter any more trees on the other end of Dutch John. But there is a tree blocking the road into Arrowhead. Before we can get turned around we see Deborah's Husband. We give the grease to him, and we eventually get turned around in the traffic jam. We get back to the trail to find out Chris is still somewhere on the trail or may have left the trails and the T-190 almost read to go. At this point we could have finished the guard rail install at the very least. BUT it had rained so the next goal was to get the T-190 up the hill climb. It wasn't going up it, I knew it wouldn't make it wet. So Deborah and her husband left to get the Forest Service Bulldozer. When they got back we had gotten the T-190 strapped up the hill. But I started to hear a Bobcat in the distance. I took off on foot in the direction away from the hill climb until I could get in radio contact with Chris. I then found out he had blown a track on the T-300 on the switch back which is a very rock area. One I had some concerns about I even blew a track in the first place.

Chris re-grouped with us, and headed back down with one other person to get the track back on the T-300. I got in the T-190 and started for the double parking lot. I almost didn't make it because of a U shaped log bridge with a thin layer of mud on it. But I made it out. By this time the Bulldozer had passed me on the trail and was at the hill climb. The T-300 was hooked up to the bulldozer and made it up the hill. Deborah and her husband headed out shortly there after. Thanks to them for sticking around with the group till we had both machines to the double parking lot. It wasn't till 11:30PM that we had both machines transported/hauled out of the double parking lot.

The next day I went to Hunt Camp at 9AM where we were supposed to re-group but no one was there. It was just me. The T-190 had been left behind for us to use Sunday, but after our prior day's experiences I wasn't going out there alone. I found out another group had also installed guard rail Saturday with the 2-man auger, so it seemed the guard rail effort wasn't a complete waste. So in all we got accomplished:

-1 Bridge re-construction
-1 Mud Hole re-construction with the T-300 (Deborah's #1 Priority)
-Some Guard Rail Installed with the T-190
-A good bit of rail installed with the 2-man auger
-A tail ditch completely re-constructed with the T-190
-Dead Trees felled (Rodney, Pete, and JC's group)

And what I was told directly from the forest service is they were happy with what we got done. Even though we had half of the people that it would have taken to get what we had planned done.

I take responsibility for the bad decisions I made, but my decisions alone weren't that main cause of the workday going south. There were many other factors that I listed above that played into the situation. The Bobcats were a big issue, but with proper preparations and different operating procedures this won't be an issue in the future. People are too quick to say they were worthless, when we logged more than 8 hours on each. Keep in mind we usually log 4 hours on a machine on an workday. Try to get what we actually did get done (that used machines) with a Tractor, or walk behind unit and you would cut the amount done in HALF.

If people do not want to participate because all hell broke loose on a work day, and we didn't get as much accomplished as we had planned so be it. This was our first heavy work weekend, and it was a good learning experience. Not every workday will go smoothly, and if one day will make or break it for some people there isn't much I can do. I got the detailed list of work together that was supposed to get more clubs and people involved. More than one club specifically told me they would get more people involved and donate if there was a detailed work list. This didn't happen. So who knows who is really going to stay dedicated to the workdays, and who won't.

In my opinion the pot has all ready been poisoned. The positive twist that people tried to put on this work weekend has been destroyed. Because we did get more than a days worth of work done, and the Forest Service is happy with what got done. But in the end if 1 person must be made a scape goat I will take it. It won't be the first time and it won't be the last.

This all (Friend of Uwharrie) started as my idea for one workday. I was then told at the next workday that if I didn't step up and turn this into a workday program someone else would. Let me state that again. I was told that something I started would be taken away and given to someone else if I didn't do as they wanted. And against my better judgement I said ok, because I am dedicated to staying involved in the effort to keep our trails open. One bad workday isn't going to stop me from doing my job, or for that matter people bashing me or my ideas. I will keep dedicating 20 hours+ a week as long as there are people willing to volunteer.