Uwharrie 4x4cross (post-meeting) - May 9-11

Andy J.

Andy J.

Doin’ it LIVE
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Location
Winston
Several of us met with Sean D of American Wheeler last night to get the scoop on the 4x4cross and to help plan out some of the details. Sean has the insurance all lined up and has the help of the forest service to hold this event. After meeting with Sean, I think he has his ducks in a row and I am looking forward to watching all of you in my rear view mirror :flipoff2:. One change that was decided last night is that the event will be held on the Rocky Mtn Loop trail, not Daniel as originally planned. The purpose of this is to keep the speeds down due to more obstacles, there is more room to move broken vehicles, there are more places for spectators, etc. Here is the class breakdown:

Class A: Street
Up to 33” tires
No lockers (factory posi ok if it is an option for your vehicle)
Stock suspension design (no longarms)
No extensive motor mods (i.e. strokers or nitrous) or motor swaps

Class B: Modified Street
Up to 35” tires
Lockers ok (front and rear)
Stock suspension design (longarms ok)
No motor swaps

Class C: Modified
Up to 38” tires
Lockers ok (front and rear)
Motor swaps ok
Must retain at least 50% of stock frame

Class D: Heavily Modified or Open
Bring it!
No tire size restriction

*All vehicles must be 4x4. No sandrails.

<soap box on> For the safety nazis: This is a racing event. Sean, and those who help him, will do everything in their power to make this event as safe as possible. However, this is an inherently dangerous sport. If you do something stupid, you will probably get hurt and it will be your own fault. Use common sense! <soap box off>

Ok, bring the <legitimate> questions :popcorn:
 
How is a spectator supposed to get from one point on the trail to another. Say I camp on daniel and want to go to Kodak. Can I drive on the course and just get out of the way of people coming thru?

Also
Class B: Modified Street
Up to 35” tires
Lockers ok (front and rear)
Stock suspension design (longarms ok)
No motor swaps
Click to expand...

Gearing is ok I assume?
 
SAS vehicles allowed in Class B? Since toyota's came SFA from the factory, I can see how it can still be considered a "stock" suspension design (as long as it's leaves front and rear), but what about other vehicles that never cam SFA from the factory, like Isuzus, ford explorer, Nissans, etc?

I see in class A, "no long arms," but what about people who have swapped in longer/flexier leaf springs? for example the popular toyota w/ long chevy springs in the back and stock toy rears up front?

I'm not trying to nit-pick or complicate things, I'd just hate it for the person that might have these mods and show up and be dq'ed.
 
paulevans76 said:
I'm not trying to nit-pick or complicate things, I'd just hate it for the person that might have these mods and show up and be dq'ed.
Click to expand...

I hear you on that, but the other option is that the person would probably have the option to pony up a few more bucks and go up a level in class.
 
class A and class B are stock wheel base..or very close to it (give or take an inch or two) as for SAS trucks they may need some clarification. Any gearing in any class is ok.
 
I think SAS should be considered "stock" if the vehicle still has to tire size for their class, and the wheelbase was not stretched more than 2". Also, the leaf spring setup should be leaf sprung only, unless it is a bronco or something that would more likely run radius arms. Endless possibilities I guess...
 
yager said:
Who's on the committee ? What about the other thread with questions.
Click to expand...
There really isn't a committee.....this is a for profit event(maybe). If the questions are racer oriented then fine. But all the logistical stuff is his deal. A few of us met with the guy and he has told us he would like to use us for opinions and the like. Please know this going in, there is no way to accommodate everyone. I have no doubt someone will be unhappy with the event, if you don't like it, don't participate.
 
How about further clarifying some of the terms used in the classes?

What qualifies as a "motor swap"? how about one of the optional motors for a given year/model swapped in? Example, my CJ5 came with a 232, but I changed out to a 258, with was available as a stock option in that year and model. Is it still a stock motor, or do I get booted up to a C from A (I am 33's, open, etc)????

Stock suspension, or stock supension design? I have 2.5" leafs, not stock? Is that (still being leaf) considered "stock design"?
 
motor swap....an engine design or size that was not originally in your make vehicle...it came with a 6cyl. AMC motor and has a 6 cylinder AMC motor in it or hell even a V8 if that motor was availible in that vehicle as an option. Would be my understanding

ie: you can't run you CJ5 with an built chevy V8
 
Any discussion about multiple entries? E.g., one guys running in two vehicles?
My personal feeling is that this should be not allowed or at least heavily discouraged. This now sounds like it will indeed be a huge evnt, with perhaps more demand than teh 160 spots allocated, in which case it seems uncool for somebody to go twice at teh expense of somebody else going at all.

I like the idea of either using GPS or a transponder check point. Esp if we coudl actually get a record of the whole trip, be able to compare notes/times etc, that would kick ass.

What is the plan for dealing wit hrecovery/broken rigs that might occlude the trail?
 
RatLabGuy said:
Any discussion about multiple entries? E.g., one guys running in two vehicles?
Click to expand...

to clarify. I'm towing two up from Atl. I'll run mine (B) with my teenager as spotter. Then he'll drive his(A) with me as spotter.
as usual, dad gets to pay the bills and he'll play
 
kaiser715 said:
How about further clarifying some of the terms used in the classes?

What qualifies as a "motor swap"? how about one of the optional motors for a given year/model swapped in? Example, my CJ5 came with a 232, but I changed out to a 258, with was available as a stock option in that year and model. Is it still a stock motor, or do I get booted up to a C from A (I am 33's, open, etc)????

Stock suspension, or stock supension design? I have 2.5" leafs, not stock? Is that (still being leaf) considered "stock design"?
Click to expand...

The motor question.....folks know a blown hemi didnt come in a jeep. 258..232...dont ask, dont tell.

As for the suspension questions....the words used were''stock TYPE''
In other words..leaves where leaves go, springs where springs go.

Sure there are plenty of ''gray areas'' to play around in.
My best advise is...if you cant figure out your own answers regarding the rules and classes, based on the written classes and the gray areas, then be ready to lobby your cause, and explain why your rig should be in a targeted class.
There are reasons we didnt get entirely to specific with the classes. Although there will still be some good questions regarding these classes, so keep firing questions. BUT you must try to find the answers on your own, based on truth and logic. Lets not just try to see who can come up with the hardest unanswerable question possible.

This rant was not targeted to you specificaly kaiser715, I just used this post cause it was on my mind.
Thanks
 
multiple entries..........if you want to enter 5 times and pay 5 entry fees, and have 5 times the chance to win, and have 5 times the chance to lose, and have 5 times the chance to get hurt, and have 5 times the chance of headache...............
spots are 1st come 1st serve.

I will say this, the faster we fill this field, the easier it will be to make the event look like eye candy for potential vendors and sponsors. Back to the ole' chicken/egg or egg/chicken theory.
So if someone wants to fill1,2,5 spots...Awsome. Its gonna be their burden to haul. There money is there and the spot is filled.
 
RatLabGuy said:
Any discussion about multiple entries? E.g., one guys running in two vehicles?
My personal feeling is that this should be not allowed or at least heavily discouraged. This now sounds like it will indeed be a huge evnt, with perhaps more demand than teh 160 spots allocated, in which case it seems uncool for somebody to go twice at teh expense of somebody else going at all.
I like the idea of either using GPS or a transponder check point. Esp if we coudl actually get a record of the whole trip, be able to compare notes/times etc, that would kick ass.
What is the plan for dealing wit hrecovery/broken rigs that might occlude the trail?
Click to expand...


If the rules don't say anything about its not allowed, then go for it. The organizer prob. doesn't care if 3 guys run the whole event as long as all the entry spots are sold. If you are broken with vehicle #1 on the trail and miss your time to run the event in vehicle #2, your loss...
 
ok, then. Let's just let our gray matter go crazy with all the gray area and see what happens :beer:
 
I first want to take a second to thank all of you who attended that meeting… The answers that have come as a result have been extremely helpful!

*raising a glass*


Now, awn du som’bidniz:

Dylan W. said:
As for the suspension questions....the words used were''stock TYPE''
In other words..leaves where leaves go, springs where springs go

Sure there are plenty of ''gray areas'' to play around in.
My best advise is...if you cant figure out your own answers regarding the rules and classes, based on the written classes and the gray areas, then be ready to lobby your cause, and explain why your rig should be in a targeted class.

There are reasons we didnt get entirely to specific with the classes. Although there will still be some good questions regarding these classes, so keep firing questions. BUT you must try to find the answers on your own, based on truth and logic.
Click to expand...
Truth & Logic, eh? – OK then…

Exhibit A:
An otherwise bone-stock IFS 4x4, with ZERO lift, having only 3 performance-enhancing modifications of any sort; namely: [A] 33” tires (which are allowed in A Class), a welded rear (which is allowed in B Class), and [C] a 3/4-elliptical leaf-sprung rear suspension (which is still, nevertheless, a leaf-sprung rear suspension, as per the OEM arrangement).

Logically, despite the 3/4 springs, this vehicle would still be at a mechanical disadvantage to numerous B Class vehicles --- And even to those who would disagree; it would be hard to argue that it possessed an edge over a long arm-equipped rig (which is allowed in B Class).

Truthfully, it would look almost comical sitting amongst a group of C Class behemoths; with an overall height perhaps not even reaching the bottom of their side-view mirrors.

It should therefore be categorized as a B Class rig.
(That’s my story, and I’m stick’n to it :flipoff2: )



Also…

A Legitimate Question:

(From AmericanWheeler.com’s Vehicle Regulations page)

“Each registration comes with a weekend pass for both driver and spotter (a $70 value)”
Click to expand...
Quite a few people will probably already have a Season Pass -- But nevermind that…

The last time I checked, three 1-day passes (or even six of them, for that matter) did not cost $70 – so, where the heck is that figure coming from?

Just askin’.


Cheers!
Smiley
 
Smiley said:
A Legitimate Question:
Quite a few people will probably already have a Season Pass -- But nevermind that…
The last time I checked, three 1-day passes (or even six of them, for that matter) did not cost $70 – so, where the heck is that figure coming from?
Just askin’.
Cheers!
Smiley
Click to expand...

I think? this applies to the offsite event?
 
Yes, the pass that comes with racers/spotter registration is for the vendors alley/rockcrawl course. We didnt discuss the URE pass. You still gotta pay the Feds.:usa abd buy your trail pass.
 
BIGWOODY said:
There really isn't a committee.....this is a for profit event(maybe). If the questions are racer oriented then fine. But all the logistical stuff is his deal. A few of us met with the guy and he has told us he would like to use us for opinions and the like. Please know this going in, there is no way to accommodate everyone. I have no doubt someone will be unhappy with the event, if you don't like it, don't participate.
Click to expand...

I thought I read in a post that a committee was being formed ? .. If one wasn't, ok.. I do understand Sean's position and that he is attempting to get something started here to eventually make money.

I do appreciate everyone involvement, and realize there is much to do and sort out, but if every question is answered with "if you don't like it, don't participate." I'm not sure what message that is sending.

I still had some questions about parking. Mainly pertaining to someone who's camping/lodging AWAY from URE, or planning to come down for the day.

Q) Will there be a competitor staging area ? or unloading area?
 
As for parking
Obviously there is no huge 'wal-mart parking lot, and it wont be the most ideal situation. This was discussed with URE rangers at our ranger meeting. We will be using alot of one side of main(dirt rd) parking in areas near the vendors area, available parking lots, and if need be, preparations for shuttle services are underway. We have permission, and are looking into hay ride type of transportation, and possibly rental or sponsor donations of vans/buses. Ideally(sp?) these services will be ongoing constantly (within certain hours)

As for the commitee
American wheeler has a gruop listed as their race commitee, basicaly the guys from the Salisbury meeting.Technically we are considered the race commitee.Anyone on this list, thats not comfortable with that title, should contact Shawn and be removed from list.
 
Dylan,
will there be room to park big trailers? I'm 60' overall with both TJs on the big trailer.

Pat
 
Checking in just registered for this event,so you all will see me around here more,posting and not just reading and lurking.

I couldn't fill in details etc like other rigs registered,sure that will be emailed in a day or two.

So Stock mod has another entry.

Smiley I need a pass so remind me later:beer:

My Questions a few right now......one that comes to mind is:

I'll run every trail they put them stockmod trucks on and give it hell,but if they throw stuff like 12" diameter logs into a pit,well I'm as screwd as the "stock" class.


Rant off :driver:
 
Turtle Mechanic said:
My Questions a few right now......one that comes to mind is:
I'll run every trail they put them stockmod trucks on and give it hell,but if they throw stuff like 12" diameter logs into a pit,well I'm as screwd as the "stock" class.
Rant off :driver:
Click to expand...
Stock rigs= stock lines, built rigs=big lines
higher classes will have a more difficult lines through the rough stuff. They aren't trying to get people hung up that would really slow things down.
 
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