Uwharrie 4x4cross (post-meeting) - May 9-11

Another question is about the helmets.

I cannot afford a full face helmet,but I can borrow open face DOT motercycle helmets which would work better with goggles in this situation.
If your belted in,the open face will protect the side of your head as good as a full face one,if your head hits the door,window or cage.

Am I missing something here?Also offroad moto cross helmets
are availible. Granted the ground is softer than metal/rocks.
 
yager said:
I do appreciate everyone involvement, and realize there is much to do and sort out, but if every question is answered with "if you don't like it, don't participate." I'm not sure what message that is sending.
?
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It's pretty simple..not everyone is going to be happy as a lark with the event or the classes, it's just how it goes. It is however a privately run event, so if you have major safety concerns or aren't happy with the course/classes/organization, then don't put yourself out by going. I'm not directing this at you Yager, it's the guy sitting in his underwear with his junk in thousands pieces having no intetions of being a part of this, shooting holes in the event, not offering solutions, but bitching about problems which won't be solved in two days. It's not like this guy woke up one morning, had a vision with all the problems worked out and said "I've got this". This is going to take time and planning. I'm having to tell myself it's like Ebay, you click buy it now and hope to god the seller is legitimate. At least in this case I've met and talked to the seller.
 
Turtle Mechanic said:
Another question is about the helmets.
I cannot afford a full face helmet,but I can borrow open face DOT motercycle helmets which would work better with goggles in this situation.
If your belted in,the open face will protect the side of your head as good as a full face one,if your head hits the door,window or cage.
Am I missing something here?Also offroad moto cross helmets
are availible. Granted the ground is softer than metal/rocks.
Click to expand...

Full face is required, no questions asked there . . . mainly due to stopping real quickly and having your face go into the steering wheel . . . go to walmart Im sure they have some cheapo's
 
Smiley said:
Exhibit A:
An otherwise bone-stock IFS 4x4, with ZERO lift, having only 3 performance-enhancing modifications of any sort; namely: [A] 33” tires (which are allowed in A Class), a welded rear (which is allowed in B Class), and [C] a 3/4-elliptical leaf-sprung rear suspension (which is still, nevertheless, a leaf-sprung rear suspension, as per the OEM arrangement).
Logically, despite the 3/4 springs, this vehicle would still be at a mechanical disadvantage to numerous B Class vehicles --- And even to those who would disagree; it would be hard to argue that it possessed an edge over a long arm-equipped rig (which is allowed in B Class).
Truthfully, it would look almost comical sitting amongst a group of C Class behemoths; with an overall height perhaps not even reaching the bottom of their side-view mirrors.
It should therefore be categorized as a B Class rig.
(That’s my story, and I’m stick’n to it :flipoff2: )
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I understand your concern but 3/4 eliptical is in no way stock type suspension, your stuck in class C . . . get the sawzall and fit some 36's on there to make it more even :driver:


And to those asking about a solid axle swap on an ifs rig . . . here's what its gonna come down to, if I or whoever it is inspecting looks at your rig and sees that you've converted it . . . then you don't qualify for stock type suspension, I personally am not sure of years that yotas had solid axles vs IFS so its possible if you had a real clean swap I wouldnt notice, but if I or whoever it is inspecting your rig does notice, you either pay to bump up in class's or your sol . . . .

Unless we come to a general consensus as the planning committee to change that fact . . . but IMO theres no way a solid axle swap is stock type suspension
 
Dylan W. said:
...the pass that comes with racers/spotter registration is for the vendors alley/rockcrawl course. We didnt discuss the URE pass. You still gotta pay the Feds.:usa abd buy your trail pass.
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Thanks for the clarification.


Cheers!
Smiley
 
jrraw23 said:
I understand your concern but 3/4 eliptical is in no way stock type suspension, your stuck in class C . . . get the sawzall and fit some 36's on there to make it more even :driver:
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It was the [‘flipoff2’] wasn’t it? -- Kinda :handed: 'd myself there, huh? :lol:


Seriously, not to beat a dead horse, but…

By the same standard of measure, I fail to understand how a Long Arm Suspension Lift on a coil-sprung rig could be considered a ‘stock-type’ setup, since the location of the stationary mounts are changed considerably – with the desired effect being an increase in the suspension’s overall range of travel. --- This modification provides a considerable advantage over any other competitor that is not-so equipped… nevertheless, it is allowed under the rules.


However, with a leaf-sprung setup, the traditional means of increasing the height of the vehicle still does not provide anywhere near as much suspension travel as your average Long Arm setup… With leaves, there are really only two ways to acquire a range of travel that would roughly-compare to that of a Long Arm suspension’s: (1) 1/4-eliptical, or (2) 3/4-eliptical… Alone, a standard long shackle + re-arched spring combo just won’t get you there.

And please consider that we are only talking about the REAR suspension here… The front of the vehicle in-question is still IFS. --- With Long Arms being allowed in B Class, obviously there will be several rigs with Long Armed solid front axels, and those vehicles will possess a vast amount more front suspension travel than any IFS rig ever would. --- In and of itself, that’s part of what this event is all about: pitting different vehicles with different setups against one another, is it not? – And (hopefully) doing so with all of the vehicles within each of the classes being at least reasonably comparable to one another.


I’m not trying to be a whinny-ass here – instead, I’m simply seeking a fair and balanced ruling; one that takes into account the fact that an IFS rig with a rear Long Arm suspension *would* be allowed under the rules for B Class, and that such a rig would still be at a mechanical disadvantage against one with Long Arms both front and rear.

My point is that an IFS rig with a 3/4-eliptical rear suspension would ALSO be at the very same disadvantage.


Am I the only one who believes that bumping this vehicle up into C Class (with rigs that require only half of the original frame, and are allowed an almost unlimited degree of modification to their suspensions, engines, transmissions, t-cases, differentials, etc.) is nearly preposterous?


Also… The suggestion of cutting the fenders and mounting a set of 36s is not really a viable option… Doing so would require re-gearing the difs (at the very least), however, such gears for the OEM difs on this particular vehicle are presently unavailable (and replacing them with something else would automatically disqualify the vehicle from B Class) --- As it sits right now, running larger tires would merely bog the thing down to the point of making it an obstacle for other competitors to contend with on the race course – therefore disqualify it – and that would defeat the whole purpose of competing.


Like I said; I’m not trying to be a whinny-ass about it, but surely there’s someone else who understands where I’m coming from here!


Cheers!
Smiley
 
Smiley said:
It was the [‘flipoff2’] wasn’t it? -- Kinda :handed: 'd myself there, huh? :lol:
Seriously, not to beat a dead horse, but…
By the same standard of measure, I fail to understand how a Long Arm Suspension Lift on a coil-sprung rig could be considered a ‘stock-type’ setup, since the location of the stationary mounts are changed considerably – with the desired effect being an increase in the suspension’s overall range of travel. --- This modification provides a considerable advantage over any other competitor that is not-so equipped… nevertheless, it is allowed under the rules.
However, with a leaf-sprung setup, the traditional means of increasing the height of the vehicle still does not provide anywhere near as much suspension travel as your average Long Arm setup… With leaves, there are really only two ways to acquire a range of travel that would roughly-compare to that of a Long Arm suspension’s: (1) 1/4-eliptical, or (2) 3/4-eliptical… Alone, a standard long shackle + re-arched spring combo just won’t get you there.
And please consider that we are only talking about the REAR suspension here… The front of the vehicle in-question is still IFS. --- With Long Arms being allowed in B Class, obviously there will be several rigs with Long Armed solid front axels, and those vehicles will possess a vast amount more front suspension travel than any IFS rig ever would. --- In and of itself, that’s part of what this event is all about: pitting different vehicles with different setups against one another, is it not? – And (hopefully) doing so with all of the vehicles within each of the classes being at least reasonably comparable to one another.
I’m not trying to be a whinny-ass here – instead, I’m simply seeking a fair and balanced ruling; one that takes into account the fact that an IFS rig with a rear Long Arm suspension *would* be allowed under the rules for B Class, and that such a rig would still be at a mechanical disadvantage against one with Long Arms both front and rear.
My point is that an IFS rig with a 3/4-eliptical rear suspension would ALSO be at the very same disadvantage.
Am I the only one who believes that bumping this vehicle up into C Class (with rigs that require only half of the original frame, and are allowed an almost unlimited degree of modification to their suspensions, engines, transmissions, t-cases, differentials, etc.) is nearly preposterous?
Also… The suggestion of cutting the fenders and mounting a set of 36s is not really a viable option… Doing so would require re-gearing the difs (at the very least), however, such gears for the OEM difs on this particular vehicle are presently unavailable (and replacing them with something else would automatically disqualify the vehicle from B Class) --- As it sits right now, running larger tires would merely bog the thing down to the point of making it an obstacle for other competitors to contend with on the race course – therefore disqualify it – and that would defeat the whole purpose of competing.
Like I said; I’m not trying to be a whinny-ass about it, but surely there’s someone else who understands where I’m coming from here!
Cheers!
Smiley
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point taken..however an eliptical spring set up means you have to have links to attach your axle..which is not even close to stock in any model of 4runner/truck I've ever seen...therefore C class.
 
another one for you Greg,
If I get the single triangulated Clayton rear in would that move me up to C?
 
BIGWOODY said:
point taken..however an eliptical spring set up means you have to have links to attach your axle..which is not even close to stock in any model of 4runner/truck I've ever seen...therefore C class.
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Looks like I need to consult with the vehicle’s designer/fabricator/owner.
(I'm just the lowly passenger-side team member)


Cheers!
Smiley
 
As long as we're nit-picking about suspension, I have one as well.

On an otherwise very-stock '89 Runner, I have squeezed in some "helper coils" between my rear springs and frame. Their function is simply to help out the otherwise worn-ass-out springs (classic Toyota sag) and privode about an inch of lift.
This adds nothing to flex, and if anything hinders compression, just softens teh ride a little.
The "suspension" is still really the OE leaves, no other mods.
This won't boot me up to Class C will it?
 
Good question, Ratlabguy.

****Attention everyone***

I am trying to allocate one man, to answer all of these Gray area questions. If everyone could hold off, just a bit, we will have one guy ''OWN'' the gray area. It will be his call, on everything relating to this topic. This guy will be the final word in this area.
However, if you tell this guy, what ya got,he classifies you,you show up with changes, or have lied, you will be bumped up a class and will have to cough up $ differance, or be DQed with NO refund. (Remember, no refunds the last 2 weeks leading up to event.)
Also remember that (hopefully) most ''classes'' questions can be answered by your self.
 
****ATTENTION**** (love doin' that)

Just a thought...This event will be advertised heavily everywhere possible, SOON.
Right now, its mostly local(this forum, our word of mouth, and a few other places) The ad campaign will start soon.
So in other words,,,,,Get your place in the race earlier than those other folks. Insure your spots. This is not just a ploy to get you on board, it's the absolute facts. We are talking big money here, that will get everyone attention. They'll be coming
no doubt about it!
 
Dylan W. said:
Good question, Ratlabguy.
****Attention everyone***
I am trying to allocate one man, to answer all of these Gray area questions. If everyone could hold off, just a bit, we will have one guy ''OWN'' the gray area. It will be his call, on everything relating to this topic. This guy will be the final word in this area.
However, if you tell this guy, what ya got,he classifies you,you show up with changes, or have lied, you will be bumped up a class and will have to cough up $ differance, or be DQed with NO refund. (Remember, no refunds the last 2 weeks leading up to event.)
Also remember that (hopefully) most ''classes'' questions can be answered by your self.
Click to expand...

So in other words... this is the guy to buy the beer for and make sure he's yer buddy! :beer:
 
BIGWOODY said:
it's the guy sitting in his underwear with his junk in thousands pieces having no intetions of being a part of this
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For the record, I don't wear underwear. :flipoff2: :D
BIGWOODY said:
Stock rigs= stock lines, built rigs=big lines
higher classes will have a more difficult lines through the rough stuff. They aren't trying to get people hung up that would really slow things down.
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This came to me today, and the logistics and safety of the event suddenly made more sense to me. In most areas (Kodak, etc) there is enough trail width on obstacles to allow (limited) other traffic, etc. Heck, I see where in some places 2 classes could almost run side-by-side simultaneously. I wasn't thinking the actual 'race course' would probably only be 10' wide or whatever. A narrow defined course (with appropriate turns at right intervals and penalty/disqual for "coloring outside the lines") would preclude balls-to-the-walls, pedal-down high-speed racing.
For the record, I'm all aboard, and planning to help support this event however I can. :) Not gonna enter, though -- I have never had a competitive bent.
 
kaiser715 said:
For the record, I don't wear underwear. :flipoff2: :D
This came to me today, and the logistics and safety of the event suddenly made more sense to me. In most areas (Kodak, etc) there is enough trail width on obstacles to allow (limited) other traffic, etc. Heck, I see where in some places 2 classes could almost run side-by-side simultaneously. I wasn't thinking the actual 'race course' would probably only be 10' wide or whatever. A narrow defined course (with appropriate turns at right intervals and penalty/disqual for "coloring outside the lines") would preclude balls-to-the-walls, pedal-down high-speed racing.
For the record, I'm all aboard, and planning to help support this event however I can. :) Not gonna enter, though -- I have never had a competitive bent.
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Shoot me a pm with a contact name and number,. Also, state which area you would like to vol. in. Thanks:beer:
 
My question: Does he care what classes people sign up in? I know he has a 160 rig limit but does he expect to stop taking applications from a given class if that class already makes up a big part of the field?

The reason I ask is that I signed up before they changed the class requirements and I'm pretty sure I could run in C if I wanted to. I want to know if I have to decide now before C fills up if if I can change a month before the event.

Then again, it would be fun to run unlimited and take Greg's $10k. :flipoff2:
 
Noticed rule change about helmets on their site,thanks.
This should be fun.
 
vanguard said:
My question: Does he care what classes people sign up in? I know he has a 160 rig limit but does he expect to stop taking applications from a given class if that class already makes up a big part of the field?
The reason I ask is that I signed up before they changed the class requirements and I'm pretty sure I could run in C if I wanted to. I want to know if I have to decide now before C fills up if if I can change a month before the event.
Then again, it would be fun to run unlimited and take Greg's $10k. :flipoff2:
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I think the plan is to run 4 equal sized classes (40 rigs each). However, should one class not get completely filled up he may permit more rigs in the other classes. Good question! Dylan do you know?
 
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