Winston-Salem police dept. Duchbaggery.

[krehel24]

Spare us all.
This is still America, you chose the profession. You get no sympathy for not liking parts of your chosen profession.

Unless you have had to sit through 10 hour long sales training that you designed you wouldn't understand the pain.

Unless you have climbed into a piece of MV switchgear you wouldn't understand the danger.

yadda yadda yadda

The only point i was try to make was that we are quick to judge the actions of a person doing a job you really no nothing about. If you spend most your time interacting with people that are lying to you, running from you, fighting with you. You would have a tendency to try to stop any possible problems before they start. people don't always know the whole story, they only see what they share.
That is a bit of a shitty attitude to have to someone that would blindly protect you. Would you be that disrespectful to a war vet?? If you are not willing to do the job then show some respect to those who are willing to do the job! I certainly did not disrespect you in any way!!

 

[Ron]

I was largely just trying to elicit a reaction equal to the one you were in my opinion.

Where I have a problem is this, in America everyone is innocent until proven guilty. As a LEO you HAVE to uphold this standard or our entire judicial system is defunct. Just because the last 10 people lied to you does not allow you to assume #11 is a liar. You still HAVE to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Otherwise "The last last time one of them was around here my store got broke into. Thats why we dont allow them colored folks in these parts after dark"

Same logic.

FWIW Ive never asked nor expected protection from a LEO. They are too heavy to carry, even the fit ones. I'll protect myself. I just ask that they respect my rights.

Finally the converse of your argument is also true. I should understand that a LEO who approaches my vehicle maybe testy or nervous because of the danger he faces. That LEO should also understand that I am going to be defensive and biased when I pull up to a check point because I have been mistreated by LEO in the past. IF I have to respect his baggage he carries into our interaction he likewise has to respect mine.

Heck go a step beyond past LEO interaction, if I happen upon a License check and Im in a shitty mood you dont know I might have just buried a friend or family member. Maybe I had a shitty day at work. Maybe I watched one of my co-workers get injured or killed on the job. I dont have to have a reason to be in a bad mood or travel down the roads my taxes pay for. I dont owe any man an explanation for why I am where I am and how I am. I support myself.

This respect and understanding thing is a two way street.

 

[Ron]

Damn dude, i was just gonna drop by and have with ya!
Hater.....

Malt Liquor only no beer.

And will you pick me up a pack of Newports on the way.

 

[ManglerYJ]

if I happen upon a License check and Im in a shitty mood you dont know I might have just buried a friend or family member. Maybe I had a shitty day at work. Maybe I watched one of my co-workers get injured or killed on the job. I dont have to have a reason to be in a bad mood or travel down the roads my taxes pay for. I dont owe any man an explanation for why I am where I am and how I am. I support myself.

This respect and understanding thing is a two way street.

The thing is, you are making it out that the officer set up this license check with the express intent to ruin YOUR day. If that's the way you see it, you live in a VERY small bubble. They use them very effectively to control drunk driving, keep unlicensed drivers off the roads (even the ones that YOUR tax dollars paid for!) and control the trafficking of illicit drugs. If someone approaches a license check and immediately turns around to avoid it, guess what..... that's pretty suspicious and will probably result in the person getting pulled over, (God forbid) questioned and possibly (GASP) detained, perhaps even arrested.

I was hit head-on by a drunk driver several years ago who was coming home from work blitz drunk. The force of the impact spun both vehicles in the intersection and ejected the battery of the car I was driving clear out of the vehicle. I happened to be driving my boss's Cadillac STS and while if I had to be in a head on collision, that would be my vehicle of choice, I'd still would have rathered the woman been forced into a license check prior to the collision. Many years later, I still cringe a bit when approaching intersections with oncoming traffic. The sad thing about this accident is that both vehicles were towed to the same lot and we checked in her briefcase to find tickets to Disney on Ice that night. Had she not hit me, she very well would have been behind the wheel with her kids. This was her third offense drunk driving.

 

[krehel24]

I was largely just trying to elicit a reaction equal to the one you were in my opinion.

Where I have a problem is this, in America everyone is innocent until proven guilty. As a LEO you HAVE to uphold this standard or our entire judicial system is defunct. Just because the last 10 people lied to you does not allow you to assume #11 is a liar. You still HAVE to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Otherwise "The last last time one of them was around here my store got broke into. Thats why we dont allow them colored folks in these parts after dark"

Same logic.

FWIW Ive never asked nor expected protection from a LEO. They are too heavy to carry, even the fit ones. I'll protect myself. I just ask that they respect my rights.

Finally the converse of your argument is also true. I should understand that a LEO who approaches my vehicle maybe testy or nervous because of the danger he faces. That LEO should also understand that I am going to be defensive and biased when I pull up to a check point because I have been mistreated by LEO in the past. IF I have to respect his baggage he carries into our interaction he likewise has to respect mine.

Heck go a step beyond past LEO interaction, if I happen upon a License check and Im in a shitty mood you dont know I might have just buried a friend or family member. Maybe I had a shitty day at work. Maybe I watched one of my co-workers get injured or killed on the job. I dont have to have a reason to be in a bad mood or travel down the roads my taxes pay for. I dont owe any man an explanation for why I am where I am and how I am. I support myself.

This respect and understanding thing is a two way street.

I understand what you are saying, like I said before it is a fine line. Part of the reason I left the PD was because I tried to give everyone the benefits of the doubt, and I almost got burned! !! You learn that complacency kills! It's just they way it is. I am sorry you have such bad feelings towards LEO'S there really are a lot out there that just want to help! I dam sure ain't for the money!!!! Or respect!!

 

[Ron]

The thing is, you are making it out that the officer set up this license check with the express intent to ruin YOUR day. If that's the way you see it, you live in a VERY small bubble. They use them very effectively to control drunk driving, keep unlicensed drivers off the roads (even the ones that YOUR tax dollars paid for!) and control the trafficking of illicit drugs. If someone approaches a license check and immediately turns around to avoid it, guess what..... that's pretty suspicious and will probably result in the person getting pulled over, (God forbid) questioned and possibly (GASP) detained, perhaps even arrested.

I was hit head-on by a drunk driver several years ago who was coming home from work blitz drunk. The force of the impact spun both vehicles in the intersection and ejected the battery of the car I was driving clear out of the vehicle. I happened to be driving my boss's Cadillac STS and while if I had to be in a head on collision, that would be my vehicle of choice, I'd still would have rathered the woman been forced into a license check prior to the collision. Many years later, I still cringe a bit when approaching intersections with oncoming traffic. The sad thing about this accident is that both vehicles were towed to the same lot and we checked in her briefcase to find tickets to Disney on Ice that night. Had she not hit me, she very well would have been behind the wheel with her kids. This was her third offense drunk driving.

Man I must be doing a horrible job of presenting my position if that i what you took from it.

If you will read the referenced post the point was made that when a LEO approaches a car he has to have his guard up because so many people are liars and thiefs and as a result they tend to see the worst in people.

My point is that many LEOs are liars and theifs and as a result many civilians enter into interactons with their guards up as well.

The difference is if that interaction goes south and the citizen ends up with a bullet, the brave officer was doing his job and protecting the community at large from the threat. Conversly if that interaction goes bad and the LEO ends up with a bullet the ruthless outlaw gunned down a cop in cold blood and deserves the chair.

Both sides are human. Both bring prejudices to the party. However the sentiment is that the untrained public must learn to accept and acquiesce the fact sometimes LEOs are jerks or stretch their boundaries because there are a lot of bad guys and sometimes our civil liberies get violated because "you never can tell"

 

[krehel24]

Man I must be doing a horrible job of presenting my position if that i what you took from it.

If you will read the referenced post the point was made that when a LEO approaches a car he has to have his guard up because so many people are liars and thiefs and as a result they tend to see the worst in people.

My point is that many LEOs are liars and theifs and as a result many civilians enter into interactons with their guards up as well.

The difference is if that interaction goes south and the citizen ends up with a bullet, the brave officer was doing his job and protecting the community at large from the threat. Conversly if that interaction goes bad and the LEO ends up with a bullet the ruthless outlaw gunned down a cop in cold blood and deserves the chair.

Both sides are human. Both bring prejudices to the party. However the sentiment is that the untrained public must learn to accept and acquiesce the fact sometimes LEOs are jerks or stretch their boundaries because there are a lot of bad guys and sometimes our civil liberies get violated because "you never can tell"

I think this is probably the best summary, and a great place to end the thread. The statement is sad, but it is true! There are definitely LEO'S out there that don't need to be and unfortunately most people applie this though to ALL LEO'S but that is the world we live in!!!

 

[Paul]

I think this is probably the best summary, and a great place to end the thread.

Why?
Is your opinion a *great place* to end a logical conversation about this issue?

 

[krehel24]

Why?
Is your opinion a *great place* to end a logical conversation about this issue?

Ok, nevermind! Keep it going! Maybe you can get 10 pages of the same two opinions on the matter. hell! Maybe if we go back and forth about the who is right and who is wrong, maybe you will change someone's mind!! Enjoy!

 

[Paul]

Ok, nevermind! Keep it going! Maybe you can get 10 pages of the same two opinions on the matter. hell! Maybe if we go back and forth about the who is right and who is wrong, maybe you will change someone's mind!! Enjoy!

I Win! I actually am not real, my name is Neo.
Debating on da webz is where it's at!
Did you know that 99% of the people in this country are stupid?
The rest are making meth like me.

 

[krehel24]

I Win! I actually am not real, my name is Neo.
Debating on da webz is where it's at!
Did you know that 99% of the people in this country are stupid?
The rest are making meth like me.

hahahahahah...

 

[Ron]

I Win! I actually am not real, my name is Neo.
Debating on da webz is where it's at!
Did you know that 99% of the people in this country are stupid?
The rest are making meth like me.

My newports?...

 

[Reid]

Heck go a step beyond past LEO interaction, if I happen upon a License check and Im in a shitty mood you dont know I might have just buried a friend or family member. Maybe I had a shitty day at work. Maybe I watched one of my co-workers get injured or killed on the job. I dont have to have a reason to be in a bad mood or travel down the roads my taxes pay for. I dont owe any man an explanation for why I am where I am and how I am. I support myself.

This respect and understanding thing is a two way street.

Driving under emotional duress could net you a dui.

 

[Bogleparsons]

Happens all the time. Copper says "GTFO". You say "meh, I don't feel like it". Copper throws you in jail for the night on obstruction/resisting/disobeying a lawful order/etc. Drops the charges in the morning.

You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride son.

 

[UTfball68]

In no way have I changed my stance on this asshole cop. I never once said he should not engage the person, question him. I said he should not detain this person as he broke no law. My problem with the cop is he did not uphold the law, he broke the law as if he is above the law.

At the end of the day this is moot, we're obviously on opposite sides of this discussion. But answer me one question. If this is in the public road outside your house, you're perfectly fine letting this go? If you want to be by the book, then a vigilante reaction isn't legal either. So what are you going to do? Call a cop and have him handle it or nah?

right is right, wrong is wrong. That;s not splitting hairs, that's being obvious. You're bringing your programmed fear into this, if you want to be a walking zombie listening to everybody around you that's fine. We have a constitution, when we give a little they take a lot. Who is to keep these folks in check if not "we the people"?

How is it programmed fear? I said if this guy were outside my house, I'd handle it. Since you want it to be by the book, please refer to my question above. I said if I were the other guy, I'd contest it...the right way.

What the fuck is a twat waffle? Pic please, I want to see one ...

twat waffle- synonymous with cumbubble, pusscake, etc etc

No the world is not rainbows & unicorns, in fact I have been told that unicorns fart rainbows.. I guess that's why these folks are keeping the cops in check with actions like this. Hell if they didn't we may all be a walking zombie...

I'm sure there's an analogy in there somewhere about some expressing their 'rights' on the trail, that would get everyone all riled up, but the effort is futile. I'm sure there are just understood and unwritten and loosely written rules on the trail that the FS are using to create their own zombie cult.

 

[Jeff B]

It's irreverent what I would do. I am not a public servant, I am not bound to uphold the law like the cop.

 

[UTfball68]

It's irreverent what I would do. I am not a public servant, I am not bound to uphold the law like the cop.

It absolutely does matter...to prove the point that people will bitch just for the sake of bitching. If this same scenario happened in front of your house. Are you thanking that police officer for making the guy leave or not? Simple yes or no question. I would be. And for anyone else that would also be thankful, then why the hell is this an issue...outside of the fact you're bitching just to bitch?

 

[Jeff B]

If he was comitting a crime, sure. In fact I would thank my friend David C. Lincoln County sheriff for keeping his deputies on the right course too.

If the cop was harassing him. No, I am a witness to bust that cops ass...

 

[RobMcBee]

..... thank God spring is here... I think we're all getting cabin fever....

 

[UTfball68]

So then the question becomes...are you comfortable with what the guy was doing. This doesn't have to be twenty questions...I feel your deflection is enough answer for me. Like I said...if this EXACT scenario took place in front of your house. Your house is being video taped from the 'safety' of the public road. Are you thanking the cops for taking care of this exact situation...or are you saying they're assholes and to let the guy do what he wants?

 

[UTfball68]

I get it...people want double standards. When they can be a bleeding heart and completely removed from the situation, it's easy to cry foul and sit on their high horse as to what's a slippery slope. But when it actually comes to you and your family and your property and you're the constant in this situation...the answer changes. I get it, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Jeff B]

So then the question becomes...are you comfortable with what the guy was doing. This doesn't have to be twenty questions...I feel your deflection is enough answer for me. Like I said...if this EXACT scenario took place in front of your house. Your house is being video taped from the 'safety' of the public road. Are you thanking the cops for taking care of this exact situation...or are you saying they're assholes and to let the guy do what he wants?

Did you not read my last answer?

 

[UTfball68]

Did you not read my last answer?

Yes...but it was a weak attempt at deflection. Do you think the guy videotaping your house is worth confronting. Do you think that's a crime? Would you do anything about it? If your answer is no to all of that, that's fine...we're obviously on two different sides and there's no hypocrisy working there. If the answer is yes, you may want evaluate why you have a double standard.

 

[Jeff B]

I am done indulging you. We have different points of view on this. I can agree to disagree...

 

[UTfball68]

I am done indulging you. We have different points of view on this. I can agree to disagree...

Your inability to answer a simple and direct question makes me assume that means your stance is, yes you're ok with civil liberties being infringed upon at your house to keep you safe...just nowhere or anybody else. Got it.