84 CJ Truck Build (Project Do-Over)

Scooter402

Pissed off Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Location
Up yonner in Pennsyltucky
New heads... 215cc intake runners, 2.020 intake valves, 1.600 exhaust valves.
IMG_1581.JPG
IMG_1582.JPG
IMG_1583.JPG


Intake manifold gaskets are for 96+ vortec, since they're vortec-style heads
IMG_1584.JPG


Solid cam and lifters, 1.5 ratio roller rockers. Cam is .512 intake, .532 exhaust lift and 250 duration @.050 lift. Should breathe pretty well.
IMG_1585.JPG


Intake manifold installed. It's a Hurricane (Professional Products) intake, hi rise single plane. Yeah, the intake is a bit on the big side, but being 402 inches, that should help calm it down some. It does pull decent idle vacuum, 16 inches at 900 rpm.
IMG_1586.JPG

IMG_1587.JPG


Runners for intake to head line up damn nice.
IMG_1588.JPG

IMG_1589.JPG


Carb is a 850HP double pumper.
IMG_1590.JPG


The carb is a tad on the big side, too, but I've got a plan for making this engine...a bit more responsive, shall we say.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1585.JPG
    IMG_1585.JPG
    47 KB · Views: 153
Last edited:

Scooter402

Pissed off Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Location
Up yonner in Pennsyltucky
Also built a new set of headers years ago after building this engine with the intention of still doing mud racing. Now that the suspension has been lowered a ton, they no longer fit. That, and I wanted some inside-the-frame exhaust in the event I actually hit some trails.

IMG_1591.JPG
IMG_1592.JPG


Such a shame all those hours were wasted.
 

Scooter402

Pissed off Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Location
Up yonner in Pennsyltucky
Installation of my reverse manual valve body.
You can see the 10" converter hanging out up in there.
IMG_1593.JPG


Plugged accumulator passage per the how-to's.
IMG_1594.JPG


New separator plate
IMG_1595.JPG


Sexy new reverse manual valve body installed.
IMG_1596.JPG
 

Scooter402

Pissed off Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Location
Up yonner in Pennsyltucky
Some ol' skool action pics:

Hangin' the front tires!
IMG_1598.JPG
IMG_1599.JPG
IMG_1600.JPG


How's that for some hang time in the mud... that 383 used to fawkin roll. Too bad I never got to race the 402.
IMG_1601.JPG
IMG_1602.JPG


Hill'n hole at Jumpin' Run down yonner in NC
IMG_1603.JPG
IMG_1604.JPG


I used to sport some 38" TSL SX's. Don't worry, the brews there on the trailer weren't enjoyed until after all the throttle jockey action was over.
IMG_1605.JPG


Old throwback to where the jeep came from.
IMG_1597.JPG


Okay, enough for the walk down memory lane. I'm working slowly at some updates. Hopefully I'll post up some more progress soon.
 

Scooter402

Pissed off Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Location
Up yonner in Pennsyltucky
97346_progress_123_753lo.jpg


So I have been chipping away slowly at some progress. I blew apart the TPI fuel rails mentioned a few posts back. The ends of the rails were drilled and tapped to 1/2" NPT so I can later put adapter fittings in them. The crossover ports were drilled and tapped to 3/8" NPT. I really didn't need them to be there at all, so I used some fuel-safe adhesive sealant and plugged the holes with a 3/8" NPT plug made from aluminum bar stock. Just to complete the look, I milled everything flush...almost like they weren't even there....

IMG_1613_zpsrhn8l2nb.jpg


I will disclose some rather...embarrassing...information. I sorta fucked up. o_O

While admiring my handiwork, (more like looking at the inconsistent travel speed on the finish of the milled surface above...the ways on that mill are sticky as fawk...I mean, really?) I noticed that one of the ends that were drilled went a little too far...I drilled one hole a little too deep (ahem...that's what she said :lol:).

The issue here lies in the close proximity of the end of the rail to an injector bung hole. :lol: :shaking: Yeah, I said it. Moving along.

Visual aid shown here:
IMG_1614_zps4vx2ywx8.jpg


Look at the edge of the bung, toward the threaded hole on the end...this shows you a bit better.
IMG_1615_zpsgwqsjm68.jpg


Yeah, that hole got fucked up. Awesome.

Soooo...what to do...I reckon we're gonna fix it. I'm convinced that a repair will work just as good as the original hole. We do it to engines all the time, right?

So, I figured I'd use a similar method to how the crossover holes got plugged. I first was planning to use some .625 round stock, run some UNF threads down on it, and bore the ID to match the injector bung's original size. But once I consulted my handy-dandy Machinist's Handbook, I saw how close the minor diameter of 5/8" UNF thread was to the ID of the injector bung hole...it would have left something silly like ~.010" wall thickness at the minor diameter of the thread. That just didn't give me a warm and fuzzy. And .75" round stock was really too big, making the outside of the rail pretty thin.

So why not do it the same way as the crossover ports? That's exactly what I did. After aligning the fuel rail on the mill, which was a bitch to get it perfectly level and square to the mill travel...I drilled the injector bung out to 37/64" to be tapped to 3/8" NPT. I made another plug, making sure that it would have adequate thread engagement 1) to be tight enough and 2) to be deep enough to seat the injector. Then I tightened the plug in place with a dab of the same fuel-safe adhesive.

IMG_1616_zpstgdfqzei.jpg


Still a little scared here...I started milling off the excess material. Then found that luckily a 5/8" end mill would plunge cut the plug and fit the inside of the countersink/grooves where the injector retainer clip goes.

IMG_1617_zpsoqxn1xcb.jpg


Beginning to look promising, because It's starting to look like the other holes again...sorta. Found the appropriate drill and reamer size, then countersunk the injector lead-in. Ta-da! :flipoff2:

IMG_1618_zpsxpkp5mex.jpg


It sorta almost looks exactly like the rest of them. Now if I didn't dork up that hole in the first place, I would have been that much more ahead.

I figured it couldn't hurt to clean these nasty things up some...
IMG_1619_zpswg8zgxuh.jpg


So that's all my progress for now. I've got a set of injectors on the way, and my next job will be to yank the intake manifold if I can get 5 minutes spare time if the temperature outside ever gets back up near freezing. Not doing it in single digits with sub-zero wind chills...fawk that noise. I'll punch some holes in the intake, and install those injector bungs I made a while back. Baby steps...

baby-steps-steps-demotivational-poster-1209748029.jpg
 
Last edited:

Scooter402

Pissed off Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Location
Up yonner in Pennsyltucky
Only a small update, basically a tool for the future...Revived an old laptop and downloaded a tuner studio...y'all grab a beer and hang out a while...this chit's gonna get cool. I hope. :huggy:
Untitled.jpg


Obviously, like the screen shot says...I'm not connected to anything because I don't have the ECU yet...but I'm getting there.
 

YJJPWrangler

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Location
Charlotte
Only a small update, basically a tool for the future...Revived an old laptop and downloaded a tuner studio...y'all grab a beer and hang out a while...this chit's gonna get cool. I hope. :huggy:View attachment 260815

Obviously, like the screen shot says...I'm not connected to anything because I don't have the ECU yet...but I'm getting there.

Is Gamma Enrichment for the Flux Capacitor? Build is looking good bud. following along for sure.
 

Scooter402

Pissed off Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Location
Up yonner in Pennsyltucky
Is Gamma Enrichment for the Flux Capacitor? Build is looking good bud. following along for sure.

Precisely! :D

https://fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/lanl/lib-www/la-pubs/00326402.pdf

It's acceleration enrichment - sort of like pump squirters (accelerator pumps) in a carburetor. Not sure why it doesn't have a Lambda gauge in the cluster for air/fuel ratio, but I haven't customized the gauge cluster yet...it'll be configured to run off of speed density, configuring the idle and cruise fuel stoichiometry off of throttle position, manifold pressure, and injector pulse width. I guess the designers here liked to get all technical with Greek alphabet names for things, instead of just calling them what they are.
 

Scooter402

Pissed off Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Location
Up yonner in Pennsyltucky
IMG_1662.JPG


Sometimes I feel like I must have...

Anyway, more baby steps being made. I yanked the intake manifold off my engine. Took it in to the shop, then mocked up my fuel rails to get all ready to transfer the hole pattern and punch some holes.

Then this happened.

IMG_1657.JPG


That's no optical illusion... the rails don't match well with this intake. Who'da thunk it? Even if I tried to split the difference front to back, the injector hole 2nd from each end would end up right in the wall between the pairs of runners... more on this later. There's always a fix for a problem... I hope!

Clamped the manifold down on the mill, measured the hole spacing between injector holes on the fuel rails and transferred that pattern to my manifold.

IMG_1659_zpsqzbbdv6p.jpg


With the first hole punched, we're kinda in this now!

IMG_1660_zpsfvjqvqon.jpg


7 holes later (after the first one) and we're done. Well...sorta. The manifold got cleaned up in the media blaster. Now I need to take the bungs that I made before and make them become one with the manifold.

I also had to take care of my fuel rails...again....

Problem solved. Maybe?
IMG_1661_zpstevocrsn.jpg


I cut them into each pair of injectors, then drilled and tapped the ends again, so I can connect them with steel lines and SAE fittings.

IMG_1663.JPG


I swear, I'm not making this up as I'm going along.

IMG_1664.JPG
 
Last edited:

Scooter402

Pissed off Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Location
Up yonner in Pennsyltucky
Little mini update here...

IMG_1711.JPG


I've got 4 of the injector bungs installed. I mulled over the method for this for quite some time... I don't have a TIG welder, nor do I have a friend with one. The only one I know of is a machine shop near me that has a rather high shop rate... I assume he'd charge near $200 for welding these in. By that point, I could nearly buy a manifold, and that would just take the fun out of this little adventure.

I figured I would epoxy these bungs in place. Before people go all motarded on me, yes - I do my research. Yes, I read labels and technical information on manufacturer websites. At the end of the day, if a major aftermarket automotive supplier recommends the same method I chose, I think I'm pretty safe. I actually found their instruction/recommendations while searching the interwebs seeing how many other redneck hillbilly SOB's did this, too. Actually, that's hillwilliam to you... I'm an educated hillbilly, dammit. But I digress.

Link to said aftermarket manufacturer:
http://documents.holley.com/199r10072rev.pdf

Anyway, here's the 4 made permanent.
IMG_1708.JPG


Began running out of time, so the other 4 are just fitted in place and ready to be epoxied next time I've got a spare minute or 20.

IMG_1710.JPG


My supervisor in the corner of the pic there approves.

After I let them cure for a week or so, I'll dig up a scrap of sand paper and get rid of the blobs and feather the edges to make it look more prettier. Mo' betta? Something like that.

Then comes the need to go raid the parts store for a pile of fittings and some steel tubing.

And then to figure out some type of fuel rail hold down... ain't giving up yet!
 

Scooter402

Pissed off Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Location
Up yonner in Pennsyltucky
Hah...found another one of my action pics on the interwebs while searching for something else.

hqdefault.jpg


Ok, carry on...
 

Croatan_Kid

How's your hammer hangin'?
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Location
New Bern
I say drop a few bucks on some AN fittings to plumb them together and you could probably use the carb mounting studs to also hold down the rail sections after the carb is bolted down. You may need longer studs, but it'd work!
 

Scooter402

Pissed off Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Location
Up yonner in Pennsyltucky
I say drop a few bucks on some AN fittings to plumb them together and you could probably use the carb mounting studs to also hold down the rail sections after the carb is bolted down. You may need longer studs, but it'd work!
That's pretty much what I had in mind! I was going to bend up some sheet metal and make something that would go across a pair of studs to hold down each rail section. I do have some extra AN fittings laying around...If I have enough to cover at least half of them, I might just get more and do it that way rather than using SAE fittings. AN ones sure are much prettier to look at!
 

Scooter402

Pissed off Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Location
Up yonner in Pennsyltucky
Well... I'm determined to make this damn thing work. I found a few minutes today and finished installing the injector bungs. I'll let those cure up, feather the edges of the epoxy to make it look decent, and then probably paint the manifold. I ordered a set of injector retainer clips, new o-rings, and a set of gaskets. So once I have this piece of shit polished up like a nice little turd, I'll bolt it back onto the engine.

Pics fo' proof.
IMG_1777.JPG


I took the bowls off of the carburetor because I was intending to start figuring out a fuel rail hold down. Then I saw some interference big time. I hadn't really counted on this part being quite so... annoying? Inventive? Don't really have the correct word at the moment, but I'll think of something.
Here's the interference problem:

IMG_1778.JPG


I'm trying to figure out exactly how much of my carburetor I want to sacrifice. I was intending to use the base plate and main body as my throttle body. Bowls and metering blocks removed, and make a block-off plate for the front and back faces where the metering blocks mated with the main body. It worked great in my imagination, but the throttle linkage is MUCH more in the way of the fuel rail than I thought it would be. I can saw off the trans kickdown eyelet... I don't need it anyway. Could possibly put a spacer under the base plate. That might, however, interfere with my desire to ditch the gonzo-schnozz from my hood, though.

Again... I'm staying determined here. Or desperately trying to maintain some semblance of determination.

IMG_1779.JPG
 

paradisePWoffrd

Recovering Project Junkie
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Location
Newton, NC
What if you turned it 90* where the throttle linkage was on the rear or front of the carb. Shouldnt matter if using a cable linkage.

Or find a throttle plate off some newer car, and make an alum adapter to your intake.
 

Scooter402

Pissed off Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Location
Up yonner in Pennsyltucky
What if you turned it 90* where the throttle linkage was on the rear or front of the carb. Shouldnt matter if using a cable linkage.
That thought never even occurred to me...Thanks! I'm definitely going to give that a shot and see how it fits. That's a great idea.
Or find a throttle plate off some newer car, and make an alum adapter to your intake.
This was my first thought after seeing my interference problem. I was looking through the flea bay, as well as c-list to see if I could find a used LS or LT1/TPI throttle body and adapt one to fit. Perhaps one off of one of the LQ series truck engines could be cheaper, since I'm assuming they're not considered an "LS" throttle body?

@Croatan_Kid, do you have one of these laying around in your stock pile of goodies?

I'm definitely going to try turning the carb 90* and see how that works out. The bolt pattern for a 4150 is 1/2" off from being truly square, but slotting a couple holes wouldn't hurt anything. I'll back out the studs and mock it up to see what it looks like. Thanks!
 
Last edited:

Croatan_Kid

How's your hammer hangin'?
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Location
New Bern
Hmm...it didn't notify me that you tagged me at all. Weird. @shawn any ideas?

Anyway, they make 4150 throttle bodies or you could run an adapter to an LS throttle body...OR even an adapter elbow if you have the room. They make all sorts of stuff for this. I'd say the carb body is a cool idea and all, but what about an idle air control valve? I feel like you could sell the assembled carb for a few hundred bucks and roll it over in to a new throttle body setup.
 

Scooter402

Pissed off Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Location
Up yonner in Pennsyltucky
Hmm...it didn't notify me that you tagged me at all. Weird. @shawn any ideas?

Anyway, they make 4150 throttle bodies or you could run an adapter to an LS throttle body...OR even an adapter elbow if you have the room. They make all sorts of stuff for this. I'd say the carb body is a cool idea and all, but what about an idle air control valve? I feel like you could sell the assembled carb for a few hundred bucks and roll it over in to a new throttle body setup.
I've got my eye on a vortec throttle body on eBay. Idle air control I actually had covered with the carb - little southern-engineered, though. I was going to get a universal 12V solenoid and make a bracket for it, so that the plunger would push the throttle linkage when it was energized. Kinda hokey, but it would work.

But if I get this throttle body off of the Bay, I'll just make an adapter for it. I'd like to do an adapter elbow, but I'm not sure I'll have the room under the hood. If I do get the one I'm watching, I'll probably source the stock elbow that attaches to the vortec 5.7 throttle body and run a filter off of that. The good thing is that this throttle body I'm looking at actually still has IAC and TPS on it. Score one for me if they still actually work!
 

Scooter402

Pissed off Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Location
Up yonner in Pennsyltucky
It's decided - I just got a Vortec throttle body off eBay. I've rat-holed a chunk of aluminum from the shop that I'll make an adapter from. This, unfortunately (spoken with great sarcastic regret... :D) has caused me to need an upgraded version of ECM than the one I was initially planning on getting. Oh, darn! :lol: Mostly only to actually be able to use the IAC instead of a fast-idle valve. But it has other goodies, too, like the ability to fully tune and program the spark tables if I choose to get a different ignition system (even distributorless if I wanted...not sure I'll do that right now) as well as fuel tables with higher resolution and a faster processor with more durable electronics, and the capability for data logging. It has the ability to run other I/O's in the event I really wanted to get inventive as well. But since this will be my first DIY EFI adventure, I'll likely keep it incredibly simple at first.
 

Scooter402

Pissed off Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Location
Up yonner in Pennsyltucky
Another little update:

Got an e-mail from PayPal saying that my payment to dude brah for the throttle body has been refunded. o_O Aight. What gives?

He says that "he's sorry, but cannot ship it for less than $35." umkay. Well, here's the back story: He had it up for bid, opening at $5. Shipping was $10. Had a buy-it-now price of $20. I'm frugal...(read - cheap) I put a bid of $10 or $15, something like that..thinking that there might be the last minute/last second bids that are usually par for the course for eBay auctions. Nobody does, so I win it for $5. Yay for me. So I send off the $15 I owe the guy.

My gripe is this: If he had the maximum (using BIN) total out the door price of $30 on the auction, why is he suddenly upping the ante to $35? :fuck-you:

So now I'm back on the hunt for another throttle body...or just convert my carb by flipping it 90* and going with my Plan A.
 
Last edited:

grapehead

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Location
Raleigh
From your point of view, that sucks.

From a seller point of view, for the most part ebay isn't an auction site any more. No one bids. It's a marketplace where you need to list stuff at the price you want to sell it for. I've learned this the hard way selling some parts lately. Maybe he is learning this too.
 

Scooter402

Pissed off Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Location
Up yonner in Pennsyltucky
From your point of view, that sucks.

From a seller point of view, for the most part ebay isn't an auction site any more. No one bids. It's a marketplace where you need to list stuff at the price you want to sell it for. I've learned this the hard way selling some parts lately. Maybe he is learning this too.
I understand what you mean. I've bought and sold hundreds of things on eBay. Some I've gotten burnt with, both buying and selling. I've had some that I listed low expecting bids to take off, and I ended up pretty much giving parts away. I think I actually lost money once on something because it costed more to ship than I listed.

But I owned it. I was honest to what I posted up for sale.

Maybe that's too much to ask anymore? I don't know... I get that it's not really an "auction" site per se anymore... I've done many BIN deals as of late. But still... my bitch is still that he should have listed at his true minimum rather than thinking that he would get much much more than he did, then back away from the deal.
 
Top