84 CJ Truck Build (Project Do-Over)

a_kelley said:
Try some plcc if you want really fun. Or bga
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I'll have to admit I had to look those up... thank you, but I think I'll leave those to the professionals like yourself! :D I'm sure I'd just make a mess of those. The EE I mentioned who said I should be using the larger iron tip laughed at me when I complained about soldering this one. He said "oh, those are huge! You should try soldering 402 size smd's!"

I looked at some he had... looked much like this:
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Yeah, no thanks! :lol:
 
I love your build thread because it is on a 1 track course to unique and awesome but damn, when you speak of all the electronics work you’re doing/building I feel like I’m reading Chinese lol. So, despite the fact I don’t understand the details, I think I’m grasping the endatate as you move through the stages and it is impressive to say the least. Well, to me it is anyways.
 
skyhighZJ said:
I love your build thread because it is on a 1 track course to unique and awesome but damn, when you speak of all the electronics work you’re doing/building I feel like I’m reading Chinese lol. So, despite the fact I don’t understand the details, I think I’m grasping the endatate as you move through the stages and it is impressive to say the least. Well, to me it is anyways.
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Thanks! I really appreciate the motivation. I'm excited to say that this part of the build is nearly complete (for now), and I'm really hoping to have time to get back in the garage and do some wrenching/welding again soon. Don't get me wrong, I love playing in the electronics lab, but I've got to start making some mechanical progress again!
 
Good Gawd man..... Impressive. I wish I could solder and fix some electronics I have laying around but this..... Wow.
 
I'm almost done with my bench tester....just assembling it at work in the electronics lab, as I intend to test it and my ECM there. It's nice having access to oscilloscopes, function generators, and power supplies right off hand to check circuit connections and function rather than just guess. That's the reason it's taking me a while, is I'll solder a few connections on the tail end of my lunch break, or if I have a spare minute or three between deep ( :lol: lol) thoughts.

Anyway, I got a few minutes in the garage this weekend. Didn't get much accomplished, but I'm happy with what happened.

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"Alright, Mr. DeMille, I'm ready for my closeup."

Now I'm on the fence, though...I don't know whether I should hiline this hood so I can continue with the fenders I had, or possibly build another set of some type of tube fenders (I'm thinking square, but with style) and maybe lift the suspension 2-3" since this thing is really fawkin' low. I mean, I have something silly like 1.5-2" from the axle tube to the bump stop right now...

A penny for your thoughts....anyone?
 
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Depending on where you plan on taking it, low stance is very helpful in most off-road situations. I'd say a sheet metal trim and some hi lines would do it just fine, since you're already on 38.5s.
 
Scooter402 said:
A penny for your thoughts....anyone?
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Low CoG is all the rage now. You will be part of the "cool kids" club if you keep it that way. But much like parachute pants, that fad will fade after time, and we'll be back to skyjackers. Given your potential for staying focused :p I'd say you need to make provisions for the NEXT big fad, and go high :huggy:
 
Scooter402 said:
I'm almost done with my bench tester....just assembling it at work in the electronics lab, as I intend to test it and my ECM there. It's nice having access to oscilloscopes, function generators, and power supplies right off hand to check circuit connections and function rather than just guess. That's the reason it's taking me a while, is I'll solder a few connections on the tail end of my lunch break, or if I have a spare minute or three between deep ([emoji38]) thoughts.

Anyway, I got a few minutes in the garage this weekend. Didn't get much accomplished, but I'm happy with what happened.

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"Alright, Mr. DeMille, I'm ready for my closeup."

Now I'm on the fence, though...I don't know whether I should hiline this hood so I can continue with the fenders I had, or possibly build another set of some type of tube fenders (I'm thinking square, but with style) and maybe lift the suspension 2-3" since this thing is really fawkin' low. I mean, I have something silly like 1.5-2" from the axle tube to the bump stop right now...

A penny for your thoughts....anyone?
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Do what you need to get 4-6" of up travel.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
 
XJsavage said:
Depending on where you plan on taking it, low stance is very helpful in most off-road situations. I'd say a sheet metal trim and some hi lines would do it just fine, since you're already on 38.5s.
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Pretty much what I was thinking. I've had this thing stupid tall before (see pics from first page - mini monster truck thing going on) and I think I like the low COG aspect. I've still got a few options I'm kicking around, where I'll talk a few rough numbers below.

CasterTroy said:
Low CoG is all the rage now. You will be part of the "cool kids" club if you keep it that way. But much like parachute pants, that fad will fade after time, and we'll be back to skyjackers. Given your potential for staying focused :p I'd say you need to make provisions for the NEXT big fad, and go high :huggy:
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:lol::lol::lol: Pretty much have me pegged there as being an "ooh, shiny!" type when I get in the garage. :D I'm really beginning to want to kick my own asses for that at the moment.
Chris_Keziah said:
Do what you need to get 4-6" of up travel.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
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So this is where I was going to ask the more experienced offroad folks than myself (if you're just tuning in, most of my experience offroad has been mud racing). How much uptravel is a good goal? Since you said 4-6," I'm thinking that would be a good number to aim for. I was assuming somewhere around 5" or so, so I think I may have had a good guess.

Here's where I'm currently at: Sheetmetal (not that it matters, since it can move) won't be too much of a concern, because if I cut my new hood to match my old fenders, I'll have 6" of clearance from tire to fender and can probably wiggle some more there. My axle tube-to-bumpstop clearance is where it hurts - mentioned previously at a measly ~2" (might even be a touch less). I'm thinking either raise the suspension 2-3" and forget hilining the hood again, or go ahead and cut the hood and have that much more tire clearance, or keep my current sheet metal and notch the frame to clear the axle tube on compression.

...or potentially some combination of the above. My frame height is currently 19" behind the front spring hangers. Is it worth the trouble to either notch the frame, french in some spring sliders and/or shackle hangers, or just lift it a few inches? What I was considering for a tad more height (by way of clearance between axle tube and frame) was to go back SOA but French a set of spring sliders into the frame, and make sure the front spring hanger sits about where the shackle hanger currently sits...if that makes sense. That (in my feeble mind) should net me approximately 3" of additional uptravel.

Y'all's feedback (even the friendly jabs :lol: ) are greatly appreciated! :beer:​
 
When you get a chance, shoot a picture of the front axle packaging area. There's certain components like PS pumps and fan shrouds that can limit uptravel also. Frame clearance limitations aren't terribly hard to work around. A front axle stretch of just an inch or two can go a long way.
 
XJsavage said:
When you get a chance, shoot a picture of the front axle packaging area. There's certain components like PS pumps and fan shrouds that can limit uptravel also. Frame clearance limitations aren't terribly hard to work around. A front axle stretch of just an inch or two can go a long way.
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Sure thing. I'll try and get one or a few in the morning before I leave for work. I don't currently have a shroud/fan in place, nor a PS pump...but I see your point. What I can say at the moment is if I recall correctly, the differential might be in relatively close proximity to the harmonic balancer, but I can't remember the exact geometry... Probably something I will want to address. This is the problem with only working on this damn thing once every couple years or so. :rolleyes:
 
XJsavage said:
When you get a chance, shoot a picture of the front axle packaging area. There's certain components like PS pumps and fan shrouds that can limit uptravel also. Frame clearance limitations aren't terribly hard to work around. A front axle stretch of just an inch or two can go a long way.
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Okay, I lied. I had time to go snap a few pics this evening when I got home. ....and the situation is much worse than I ever remembered. I have GOT to do something about this. But one thing at a time, because I'm tired of having about 17 irons in the fire all at once.

I'm actually somewhat embarrassed to share these, not only because of the mess of crap that's accumulated on the floor under the jeep, but for not realizing/remembering that it really was this low when I went back SUA to begin with. Perhaps I did realize it and figured it would be yet another thing I would do something to fix later, do over (hense the thread title) or what have you...anyway, on with the pics of shame.

There's literally 1" (yes - O-N-E inch...) between the tip of the rubber bump stop and the top of the axle tube...
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Little farther back, you can see the differential is rather close to the crank pulley and balancer. Straight line measurement between them is ~3" on a 45 degree diagonal.
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Overhead view of axle and crank pulley.
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Don't mind the mess... :rolleyes: the only thing that would save the crank pulley is the 1" distance to the stop... I seriously want to chop this thing to bits and start over.
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It's not quite as bad as this angle shows, but you're getting the idea.
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Vertically, there's 4" from the axle to the balancer.
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Taking these pictures was seriously depressing...:rolleyes: I almost mean what I said about chopping this pile up and starting over. I think I was just rushing trying to get it back together, and I can't even remember why. But there you have it.

So beyond crushing it, what would you do? Obviously it needs more clearance under that front axle. I just haven't narrowed down which way I want to go about it, except possibly to go back SOA. That nearly makes the time I spent working on that front axle wasted, but what else is new?

Jeezus, I need a drink now :lol:

I'm also obviously going to tie up all my loose ends one at a time...first, finish my EFI project. Then finish the body work. After that, I'll get back on this axle/suspension dilemma.
 
Woah, woah, woah......
Slow down, take a deep breath, slam about 6-13 beers and reassess this.


Get everything else done first.

A simple outboard of the leafs with a spring over front and back will do wonders. If it was me, I'd stretch it as far as steering and driveshaft will allow. Then there's the choice of front axles, luckily there's plenty and I would address any suspension upgrades according to what front axle I ran. It's a lot more Fab time than money but be ready for both.
 
I'll echo what @XJsavage said. Spring over will give you about 5-6" more clearance I'm not sure the point or The how of outboarding the springs but definitely SOA will get you what you need. Or if you want to stay SUA, get a set of 6" lift springs.
 
XJsavage said:
Woah, woah, woah......
Slow down, take a deep breath, slam about 6-13 beers and reassess this.


Get everything else done first.

A simple outboard of the leafs with a spring over front and back will do wonders. If it was me, I'd stretch it as far as steering and driveshaft will allow. Then there's the choice of front axles, luckily there's plenty and I would address any suspension upgrades according to what front axle I ran. It's a lot more Fab time than money but be ready for both.
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I could definitely use a 6er or more... :lol: Thanks much for the input. Now that I've had a chance to sleep it off, I don't think I want to rip it to shreds and start over...take it apart? yes - but that would have to happen to fix this....atrocity. Now that my D300 has been modified to run either passenger or driver's drop, I really do have a choice of pretty much any axle I can lay my hands on to get under it...that's motivating. :beer:
a_kelley said:
I'll echo what @XJsavage said. Spring over will give you about 5-6" more clearance I'm not sure the point or The how of outboarding the springs but definitely SOA will get you what you need. Or if you want to stay SUA, get a set of 6" lift springs.
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I think he was mentioning the outboarding of springs since that's the easiest way of putting a full width axle under the front without totally reengineering the front suspension, or having to make extensive modifications to axle housings...neither of which I'm opposed, but neither do I have much time to accomplish, either.

But you're right - I do need about 5-6" more clearance, which would be given directly by a SOA conversion (again). I was thinking 2-3" initially, but at this point I don't think that would quite cut it. I'll have to do some more thinking and homework on the matter before I blindly dive in again, as has been my style in previous endeavors.
 
Wow, it's been a while again. I've kind of been on a hiatus of sorts, and thought I would be longer...but I needed to get out of my head, even if just for a few minutes. I recently tested my bench tester, and it seems to function fine. I didn't hook it up to the ECM and run it yet, though. All I did was hook the power lead for the tester up to a DC power supply and an oscilloscope to ensure the 555 timer I used did put out a decent square wave, adjustable with the potentiometer, and it did. The other two pots used for throttle position as well as O2 sensor seem to work too. Didn't take any pics for proof, as I didn't think about it at the time.

I also tested the VR conditioner I built by hooking it up to a DC power supply, a function generator for a sine wave signal, and the o-scope to ensure it put out a square wave from the sine wave input. It worked beautifully as well. Again, no pics for proof, but I didnt think about it at the time. I'll have to be better about collecting evidence for myself on the next go round. Next time I work on it, I'll probably run the ECM off of the square wave of my bench tester, then plug in the VR conditioner and ensure that works properly as well on the ECM.

My hiatus has just been because I've been incredibly busy at home, and haven't really had any down time to speak of at work lately. And I never really want to get away from my work while at work, which I suppose is a good thing. Because of recent events, I thought I might be on a longer break from the jeep, but as it turns out it helped to get my mind off of things.

What I'm talking about is that I had to say goodbye to my best friend on Wednesday morning. Even now I'm fighting off the tears just thinking about her. She hasn't been able to walk for a couple months, so it's basically been a full "hospice care" scenario for her until this week. I'd help her outside to do her thing, sometimes have to help her eat, and make sure things were cut up small and soft enough for her to ingest.

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She passed on Wednesday morning at home with my wife and daughter while I was at work. My wife called when she knew it was about to happen, so I could be there in her last moments.
I'll always love you, Sadie. This picture above was her from about a month ago. Even though she couldn't walk at this point, she still was happy. She was my best friend, my companion, my confidant, my therapist, my copilot... Thursday morning when I woke up, being the first day after she was gone, I was so lost. The better part of the last decade I had all my mornings revolving around taking care of her and tending to her needs. I didn't know what to do to get myself ready for my day. Being as this is still fresh, it still hurts...but I guess I have no choice but to cope and move on.

I'll post more updates with the EFI (and other things as they might happen) as time allows. Maybe I'll have to work on it more just to clear my head. I'll admit, it was nice to tinker again on Friday, even if it was just for a minute.

Thanks for checking in, y'all.
 
So we've got good news, mostly. I have done more testing with my ECM. So far everything seems to be working. I haven't been able to check the IAT and CLT inputs yet, because like some kind of dumbass I assumed that the resistance values for those sensors were much higher than they actually need to be. So basically even hooked up to the tester, they still read like an open circuit. I tested with the 555 timer as I had originally thought I'd do, but then had a thought. I also wanted to test the VR conditioner on the board (not just on its own like I did at work with the function generator). I ended up making a headphone jack adapter by stripping an old pair of headphones, and downloaded a wave generator off the App Store. It's intent is for making midi music. But, it does sine, square, and triangle waves. I checked the output on the oscilloscope, and the amplitude is 3V peak-to-peak. Perfect!

So, switching jumpers on the board, I could check the RPM range, injector driver function, rev limiter, etc. and all works well.
IMG_2303.JPG

This is the RPM signal coming from my phone, a 9V battery hooked up to the tester board, TPS coming from one of the pots on the board. O2 I assume isn't reading because the voltage on the 9V is so low from me playing so much. I might be getting a wicked voltage drop from pulling the 555 from its chip holder on the tester board, too.

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Here's the board with the VR conditioner in place, the headphone jack waiting to be hooked up to my phone, and my tester board, complete with gratuitous use of one color of wire. One of the EE's here had a good laugh at that. Bite my ass... :lol: But I'm going to reconfigure the board so I can actually test the things that seem not to read a signal as if yet.

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Obligatory screen shot of the "function generator" on my phone.

So the saga continues...I'll update more as I get stuff done.
 
Creekin said:
Glad you have made some progress on ECM
Any more thoughts on the SUA vs SOA situation?
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Thanks. It's definitely been a fun project to work on. I can't wait to get finished testing everything on it to make sure it'll function properly, then begin building a harness and get the rest of the fuel system so I can fire it up.

I've gone down many avenues of thought for the SOA/SUA situation. Bottom line, it's just too low. Well....the front axle tube is way too close to the frame, lets put it that way. I want to get at least a few more inches of separation between the frame and axle. So what I plan to do, given that everything goes my way (which doesn't happen often :rolleyes: :lol: ) is that I will put it back to SOA and do some form of shackle reversal at the same time. When I made new spring eye mounts at the rear of the front springs, after a few days of looking at them I didn't really like what was going on. I guess I should have thought about it longer before mounting them that way, but at that point in time I didn't really have the availability to have it sitting on jack stands forever. Anyway, long story short, I am going to change it to SOA with either a reverse shackle or spring slider at the rear eye of the front spring. My aim is to get about 4" additional lift out of it. If it did end up being 5" lift (which just total measurement of all the parts would net it to be), I think I could deal with the extra inch. That's what she said. :lol:
 
Got some more stuff done to the ECM...me not being thorough turned out to be the problem. :rolleyes:

It helps when you look through ALL the settings and calibrate the sensors. I input data found on the interwebs for the CLT and IAT sensors, but can go back and calibrate to the actual sensors once I get them. Chances are that they will be close enough, since I will be using GM sensors anyway, and these numbers were pulled from a GM data sheet. The bias resistor value is straight from my board, as it is the value of the bias in the circuitry.

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The wideband controller I intend to use is the APSX-DIY. I believe this should be the correct one. Now my potentiometer putting out a 0-5VDC signal makes it read correctly.
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I've got a few more outputs to test, such as the fuel prime duration, the IAC circuit, etc. then I will start building a harness and get this into an enclosure that's been sitting on my desk for months.
 
So, I'm done testing. :smokin: Everything works as it should - fuel pump circuit works, once you power it on, it primes for a specified amount of time (set to 6 seconds currently), then disables until it has an ignition signal. IAC works, with the PWM signal duty cycle tapers off as the temperature rises (temp rise simulated with my test board). While poking around in the software, I found that I have the option for running a fan control as well. There's not a dedicated fan output at the I/O terminals, but I got sneaky and made one. There are 4 ignition channels, and if/when I run full timing control I'll only need one of them for this engine since I'll still be using a distributor. So I programmed the fan control to go to the 4th ignition output channel. I tested it's on temp and hysteresis loop (both can be programmed to whatever temps you like), and it functions as it should -- kicks on at a specified temp, lets the temperature drop below the high point until it drops off below the bottom of the hysteresis loop, then shuts off. The reason I chose one of the ignition channels is it has an LED indicator telling me when it turned on (also verified by my DMM, of course).

I went to go start making a knockout in my enclosure to mount the D-sub connector I'll use for my harness...but Arrow electronics sent me two receptacles, not one plug and one receptacle. Two different part numbers, both match what I ordered. :rolleyes: The one that is supposed to be the plug says so on their website, but it's now obsolete...go figure. And I ordered it in September. And it was only $2. So I guess I have an extra receptacle, but will need to order a new plug. Once I get some wire, I'll start wiring up the plug connector in my enclosure and eventually begin building a harness, once I get the sensors and connectors. More to come!
 
Not terribly thrilling progress, but it's progress nonetheless. Been incredibly busy elsewhere. :rolleyes: Like work or home life should get in the way of this??! Who the fawk am I? :lol:

Anyway... got the right connector, also got some wire. More than one color, I might add. :lol: But I could only find 12 different colors without getting stupid on prices and money's spent. So...12 is where it ends. That means I have to get creative with my color pairs/groups. I think I can keep that straight. I'll make a more sophisticated diagram later, right now all I have is a list. But here's a pic of the ECM mounted in its enclosure on standoffs, the internal harness built, soldered, and connected. Isn't exactly awe-inspiring, but just thought I'd check in to prove that I haven't died (yet) and that I haven't given up on this.

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More to come. Soon I'll order my O2 controller and a handful of sensors, couple of relays and other odds and ends and I'll start building the engine harness. Stay tuned, y'all :smokin:

Oh, also forgot to add that I changed my fan output from the 4th ignition channel to one of the auxiliary outputs. It took me a minute of reading the electrical diagram and poking around in the software to find that one...one would think it would be easier to access, or maybe I'm just a little slow. Anyway, all 4 ignition channels are open now for if/when I run timing/ignition control. More to come!
 
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Got this cool little guy in the mail yesterday. I'll post up more about it when I solder the wires and encapsulate it after I check that it works when the sensor comes in. $40 bucks for a diy O2 controller? Sold! :smokin:
 
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