Addition to current house (vs new home)

SHINTON

SHINTON

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2005
Location
Triad area of NC
Wanted to get another series of input here from our builders and renovators! Sold our "vinyl village" home back in January, currently living in a 1600sf brick ranch with full basement, 3 bedrooms, 2 bath. I have the option of buying it from our family biz, we just finished 6 month renov on the house, looks fantastic, but even then the master bedroom bath / closet are still on the small side.

Still fighting with the city about sewer/easement stuff so no idea if/when that will really happen, could be tomorrow, could be another 8-10 years!? So not sure if/when we will ever get to build our 'forever' home so just thinking about other options.

After just moving in...we are a bit tired and LOTS of temptation to make this house fit our needs instead of moving again. Would not be perfect but would check a lot of the boxes.

I will upload a couple pictures, but basically thinking of a 30x30 addition on the back to be a 4th bedroom and Den/Living rm (or Dining) and covered porch. What I am sorta hoping for is somewhat educated guesses on this is a $100k project, 50k, whatever!?

Original house built in 1968, has septic system (cleaned out / working) so my guess is a major hurdle will be if I can even add another bedroom/full bath? Assuming I can, probably adds to current field, maybe $5k to the price here?

House is all red brick, looking at Hardie board / brick / stack stone for siding? Roof is decent shingle (all new roof on renov/house), flooring will be 100% Luxury Vinyl plank to match current house.

Gas Fireplace

Master Bath with huge tub/jets, walk/ROLL in shower (handicap accessible), vanity/sink on each side of tub. I am thinking this is the biggest $$$ part of the project!

Current sliding glass door to rear deck removed / entryway to den/LR/Dining room. Window in kitchen becomes 'pass through' window.

Rear covered porch, not much to say, columns, stack stone / timber (craftsman style) and quite possibly wired in here for hot tub!

Current house is over full basement so add-on would be built over 'crawlspace' to be consistent level with home.

14'x30' single carport, to be enclosed, single car garage. Rear 6' or so possibly stolen/used as more closet for Master bedroom/bath? Could see putting shower there instead so all plumbing shares same outside/wall?

So what say ye? My plans are in Excel because "accountant" and all things are done in Excel...

Sam
4TH BEDROOM.JPG

FULL HOUSE WITH ADDON.JPG
 
You should be able to pull up the septic permit which will tell you the number of bedrooms allowed.
 
SHINTON said:
What I am sorta hoping for is somewhat educated guesses on this is $100k
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Rob would be more of an expert, as would cyd and shawn. Your trim level and expectations will set the budget, but I wouldn't even consider it reasonable UNDER $100k if you're looking for turnkey construction doing absolutely nothing yourself. (For budget purposes)

IF additions to septic are even allowed. Pull the permit at the health dept to determine what your lot perks for and see
 
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I would say if you touched almost every room and did the addition 100K to 150K

but this all depends on if you just hire a contractor and get nice fixture counter tops etc. granite/quartz etc
 
I would rent and spend as long as necessary to find the right house, then just buy, move in, and live life.
 
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I don’t know that stealing space from the carport will help the layout you have planned. It could give you a larger closet and larger master but is it necessary? That new wall will potentially need a new footer cut through the concrete floor. You may could span the 14’ across but you still need a rim joist and footer added. With now it being a 1 car garage, you will likely want that garage space for storage.

Short answer, yeah the area in the carport can be used but what’s the ROI? Is it worth it? It’s probably cheaper to extend the addition a few more feet to get the extra space you want.


The big wild card is septic. Your lot may have been at its limits to be sized for a 3bdrm septic; a 4th edtoom May put you beyond your available leechfield area. Most AHJs won’t let you just add a line to an existing system. Requirements have changed and a modification likely wouldn’t be adaptable to an older system. Tank size is also determined by the gpd usage for a 3bdrm house. Adding a 4th bedroom increases the estimated usage by about 30%; an older tank may not be sufficient. At that point, you would be better to put a whole new system in to suit your needs. Remember, the addition may encroach on the current system or repair area, so it’s key to get that permit info, if available. If it’s original, it’s likely the county doesn’t have records of the system. At that point you’ll likely have to get an evaluation by the county and go from there.


With the house being a ranch, framing should be fairly easy. You can get pre made trusses for the simple roof lines and save some costs.

In Greenville, I’d probably budget $75k for that project until I decided on specific fixtures, septic, etc. enclosing the carport isn’t hard but there are code requirements which would likely need to be considered and adds to the cost. That estimate is purely based on square footage costs for average finishes and no major surprises. I added 10% to account for the carport enclosure. Price would go up or down based on actual scope, etc.
 
SHINTON said:
After just moving in...we are a bit tired and LOTS of temptation to make this house fit our needs instead of moving again. Would not be perfect but would check a lot of the boxes.
Click to expand...

I'd spend another year in it first, to actually figure out what your needs are versus how the house is configured now. It's pretty hard to form a well-considered opinion after such a short amount of time in a new house.

Check your zoning and setbacks first, to know what your envelope is. I can't add anything to the rear of our house because of our specific rear setback, for example.
 
Just an 'update' of sorts, called health dept, basically to add a bedroom (bath) we would have to do a "full perk" test essentially the same as if this was a new construction/home. I am guessing that if it passes, no reason to assume it would not, I should budget for a new / bigger tank, and new lines (or additional) so really the same as a full on septic install for a new home. Budgetwise, I am seeing $3-6000 for that?

3D perspective of the add on, wife needed to "see" it instead of drawings. Moved the shower back to entrance of bathroom from bedroom, otherwise pretty much the same.
3D of addon.JPG
 
Around here, a type IIa septic for a 4 bedroom is roughly $4500. Your county/city may have varying septic requirements than Pitt County and may increase the costs. That is new septic and doesn’t include removal of an old system. There will be some additional costs associated with removal of an existing system.
 
Is there any way you can, at least for the permits, change one of the bedrooms over to a den or library room? When we built, the only thing that made it a bedroom was having a closet. That way youd still be a 3 bedroom house, and not have to upgrade septic.

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Free and online 3D home design planner - HomeByMe

FREE!! (or the first 3 projects or free or something like that!)

Interesting thought about killing a closet actually? I could change my office back, open the door into the other side.. but i thought it was number of bathrooms, not bedrooms? This would be a 3rd bathroom no matter what?

It is just my wife and myself, no kids or family right now so the septic is 'under utilized' anyway, BUT down the road if parents had to move in or we sell the house it needs to be legit!
 
In most areas (all that Im familiar with) its bedrooms not bathrooms that matter. Thought being if there is only 1 bedroom and 25 bathrooms 2 folks can only go so much. In contrast 10 bedrooms and 1 bath...all those people have to shower and pooop sometime.
 
Some AHJs are flexible, some are not. If a room has a closet and could reasonably be a bedroom, they count it. Others don’t. Many people were building 6 bedroom homes and labeling it as a 3 bedroom and naming 3 of the bedrooms something different and using it for whatever they wanted (bedroom). AHJs got smart and changed things up on how they perceive the intended use of the room. I can’t get away with it in Pitt County and likely not Wake or Guilford, etc but I’d be willing to bet you could get away with it in Bladen county.
 
But closets added after inspection may not even require a permit and are pretty easy to do...assuming its an inset into the room....and study's or home offices dont require a bed count...at least not around here
 
In Forsyth it's closets

$4500 is a good budget for Whole new septic systems installed. Like said above, figure more for removal. But if you can reconfigure and still have the same number it's permitted for, no need for change
 
Ron said:
But closets added after inspection may not even require a permit and are pretty easy to do...assuming its an inset into the room....and study's or home offices dont require a bed count...at least not around here
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You can generally use the rooms as you like, but the septic is going to truly determine the number of lawful bedrooms you have, use, and advertise when selling.

Environmental health doesn’t care that only 2 people live there, they care about the potential, both now and later.
 
Here is the closet in question, current it opens into my office / 3rd bedroom.

In theory I could reverse this, create a 2nd closet into the current Master Bedroom#1 and build the addition and not have to get sewer folks involved?

Plumber will still have to run everythign down hill to the (S)ewer junction there...but would save $4500ish?!

I suspect that assuming it will perk, it is worth the extra $4500 to have a true, legit / permitted 4 bedroom, 3 bath home if I ever sell it. (Vs 3 legit bedrooms and an office)

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I'll defer to Rob an Troy here...but in SC no one has ever pulled a septic permit on me to determine how to list a house for sale on the MLS.
In two flips Ive added bedrooms without speaking to the county and sold them as the new bedroom count.
 
When we added a master bedroom suite onto our house, the Health Inspector walked my entire property and said, "I have good news and I have bad news..... which one ya want first?" I said the bad news.

"Bad news is you can't have another bedroom on your house. The septic system is only rated for 3 bedrooms and the land will not perk (he was surprised it perked 30 years ago, but that was before his time)" With bad news like that, the good news is probably worthless.

"No.... good news is that you can have a 'bonus room' and a pair of his & hers offices instead of the walk-in closet and office you have on your plan."

OK, but my wife wants a whirlpool tub, and since I want to at least think I'll be able to use it occasionally, so I'm getting the 6 foot long one that's almost 100 gallons to fill.....

"Sure - big as you want. Just if you go to sell your house, convert the smallest bedroom into a "den" and make the closet a built-in book case..... oh and forget my name."
 
Ron said:
I'll defer to Rob an Troy here...but in SC no one has ever pulled a septic permit on me to determine how to list a house for sale on the MLS.
In two flips Ive added bedrooms without speaking to the county and sold them as the new bedroom count.
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Where I’m at, realtors won’t list it as a 4 bedroom if septic is only good for 3 bedrooms. It’s misrepresentation and they can get in deep trouble for it. I imagine it’s the same state wide and even in SC.

I always ask for septic permits on properties I purchase. Most pre-date county records so it’s not much use. But, I’m generally an informed buyer where many (most) are not and don’t know to ask and a realtor won’t as well; I’m guessing plausible deniability is easier to defend than misrepresentation.



If I were Sam, I’d try to make a closet into the bedroom, making it a 4 bedroom and add in a new master and leave it as technically a 3 bedroom and let a potential buyer read between the lines. How much does a true 4bdrm sell for over a 3 bedroom with an extra den with a closet??

Truth is, unless inspections brings it up, it wouldn’t really be an issue. If you are adding on, inspections will require you to have environmental health out there to determine your offsets and won’t issue a permit without it. They may ask questions. The easiest way to get around questions is when the scope and drawings are submitted for review, be sure to have lots of verbiage regarding “moving” the master bedroom in lieu of “adding a master bedroom”. Make sure the drawings of the rest of the house indicate the “new” use of the old bedrooms. Hell, it may be easier to make note of closets that remain in the old bedroom to be noted as a “dry bar” in lieu of a closet. This would likely be sufficient to curb any questions regarding use of that old bedroom and they won’t question the new master bedroom.
 
Inspector (building, not environmental health) told me a few weeks ago, that around here, if you halfway try and do something correctly, and get a permit, they really don't care what you do or how you go about it. They are so overrun with hispanics trying to skirt the system, making their own rules, or ignoring permits altogether, that they don't have time to chase around and harrass folks that at least try and follow the book. Said one "contractor" had 3 new construction houses going on, one pretty far along, all done without permits and inspections. Ignorance, or just no respect for the system...
 
Emailed back and forth with local septic company to get their thoughts and they actually could not help because they ALSO work in permits area for the county. I mentioned the office and he replied back to say that was correct if part of my building process was to convert my 3rd bedroom to an 'office' then I would still have 3 bedrooms and no need to expand the septic system!

Depends on what else I find out, but I am already using that 3rd bedroom as 100% office, no bed, just my desk and a few chairs, tables, etc. If I went down this route, would really prefer to leave closet there for "filing room" / extra storage and not close it off and will have to write all this up for permits anyway and I can officially designate all of that on the plans and see what happens. Worst case I have to jump through all the hoops but this sounds like a fairly legit strategy and down the road if I go to sell the home it will still be listed a 3 bedroom, (3 bath) with office/den, etc.

Thx again for the help. Did have 1 local builder just eyeball the plan and guesstimate of $125k! Ultimately my goal would be closer to 60-80k at most and may have to work with a builder to see "what I can get" for that kind of budget. Especially if I am doing some sweat equity, stuff like enclosing the carport would be pretty straight forward I imagine, etc.
 
If you label that closet in the bedroom as a “dry bar”, no plumbing is required and it gets the permitting office off your back with inspections and additional bedrooms.

Labeling it as a file room may work but may still be considered a closet. It’s all in how the permitting office interprets the drawings and scope of work.
 
Ok, I guess this is because I don't drink beer/alcohol, I am guessing "Dry bar" is a place you would store your liquor, but no fridge or stuff? Board games & book shelves is probably the most accurate description of how it will be used but knowing the right keywords is the secret sauce.

But if they do a "pop quiz" on what I am putting in my dry bar I would be in trouble right at the moment, ha!! (Uh...Bartles & James, wine coolers, that is a thing right...?)
 
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