Automotive bubble....has it burst?

For certain people in the room. :D
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shawn said:
Sure it does. I know a guy that waited almost a year for Ford to deliver his F350, and it likely stickered for $30k more than that. Save 1/3 to get a lightly used truck today vs wait indefinitely...?
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Prices don't make sense to me as a whole. A truck like that should cost in the 60k's new. I realize that is just me though not adjusting to reality. I'm turning into my grandfather.
 
drkelly said:
Prices don't make sense to me as a whole. A truck like that should cost in the 60k's new. I realize that is just me though not adjusting to reality. I'm turning into my grandfather.
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They could, and would, if the morons would quit buying $90k depreciating assets.

We don't NEED a $5000 suite of anti-crash tech.
Don't NEED a $3000 full dash screen
Don't NEED 17 'terrain' modes
Don't NEED an $2000 electric power steering system with 10 yaw, angle, and ratio sensors that is then tied into the 17 Body and Engine control computers.
Don't NEED swoopy, integrated into the bodywork $500 tail light assemblies that dance.
Don't NEED embossed $1000 tailgates and bedsides
Don't NEED swoopy, integrated into the bodywork, $500 headlight assemblies that 'dance'
Don't NEED a movie to play when the door is open
Don't NEED compound turbos and cylinder deactivation and start-stop and 1000 watt electric motors strapped to transmissions
Don't NEED TPMS, cameras, rear view mirrors with compasses and thermometers in them
Make it safe, make it reliable, and make it look pretty good. What else is needed?

A new 4 door V8 F150 XLT 4x4 is $57k base. WTF. It could cost $35k if they wanted it to.....and be just as comfortable and safe.
 
benXJ said:
They could, and would, if the morons would quit buying $90k depreciating assets.

We don't NEED a $5000 suite of anti-crash tech.
Don't NEED a $3000 full dash screen
Don't NEED 17 'terrain' modes
Don't NEED an $2000 electric power steering system with 10 yaw, angle, and ratio sensors that is then tied into the 17 Body and Engine control computers.
Don't NEED swoopy, integrated into the bodywork $500 tail light assemblies that dance.
Don't NEED embossed $1000 tailgates and bedsides
Don't NEED swoopy, integrated into the bodywork, $500 headlight assemblies that 'dance'
Don't NEED a movie to play when the door is open
Don't NEED compound turbos and cylinder deactivation and start-stop and 1000 watt electric motors strapped to transmissions
Don't NEED TPMS, cameras, rear view mirrors with compasses and thermometers in them
Make it safe, make it reliable, and make it look pretty good. What else is needed?

A new 4 door V8 F150 XLT 4x4 is $57k base. WTF. It could cost $35k if they wanted it to.....and be just as comfortable and safe.
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I absolutely love my rear camera. Especially when I hook up a trailer. I would love a front camera to see the car in front of me when pulling in a tight parking lot. But hey I'm old and lazy.
 
benXJ said:
A new 4 door V8 F150 XLT 4x4 is $57k base. WTF. It could cost $35k if they wanted it to.....and be just as comfortable and safe.
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I hear that...but one could also say you don't 'need' a v8 or 4x4. Sure it makes things nicer, but I always flash back to 70's advertisements where the family station wagon was the do-all vehicle with a whopping 150hp and 250tq. That said, according to the Ford build and price...you can get a 4dr 4x4 XL for $46-47k, and outside of 'Covid times' the general consensus tends to be if you can't get the vehicle for 20% off MSRP, you're doing it wrong. So that would get you to the $35-40k range. I understand I diluted/discounted today's reality pretty heavily...but give it 18-24 months, and I think as the Covid repo's play out, we'll be back to a 5-year-ago reality.

1678373526509.png


Edit...and since I'm a ford guy, a 78 250 crew cab 4x4, it's not uncommon to see $8-12k invoices...accounting for inflation:

1678374140316.png


And that 2023 150 will knock the 78 250's dick in the dirt in every category, except nostalgia and aesthetics.
 
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UTfball68 said:
don't 'need' a v8 or 4x4. ... 70's advertisements where the family station wagon was the do-all vehicle with a whopping 150hp and 250tq
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I LOVED my F-150 ex-work truck. It was the perfect vehicle for 99.5% of what I, and probably 99% of people, need in a vehicle.

And, speaking of the do-all vehicle of the 70s, here's a pic of my dad and uncle pulling their horse trailer from Raleigh to Kerr Lake via the family Thunderbird, sometime in the 70s I'm assuming.
 

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UTfball68 said:
I hear that...but one could also say you don't 'need' a v8 or 4x4. Sure it makes things nicer, but I always flash back to 70's advertisements where the family station wagon was the do-all vehicle with a whopping 150hp and 250tq. That said, according to the Ford build and price...you can get a 4dr 4x4 XL for $46-47k, and outside of 'Covid times' the general consensus tends to be if you can't get the vehicle for 20% off MSRP, you're doing it wrong. So that would get you to the $35-40k range. I understand I diluted/discounted today's reality pretty heavily...but give it 18-24 months, and I think as the Covid repo's play out, we'll be back to a 5-year-ago reality.

View attachment 393358

Edit...and since I'm a ford guy, a 78 250 crew cab 4x4, it's not uncommon to see $8-12k invoices...accounting for inflation:

View attachment 393359

And that 2023 150 will knock the 78 250's dick in the dirt in every category, except nostalgia and aesthetics.
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Yep, I get all that. the new F150 is 'nicer' than the old ones. I get inflation. How much was a 1978 V8 4wd f150?
I also get improvements in scale, efficiency, technology, consolidation, world markets and brain/computing power. How much was a 30 in. TV in 1978? (if you could even get one)
A dancing LED headlight assembly that costs $500-$1000 is not helping anyone but Fords bottom line, yet we scoop them up. Then we all pay higher insurance premiums to fix these unnecessarily expensive and complicated machines. Each truck comes with $4k in head/taillights. Nuts.
Analog water temp, oil pressure, fuel level, tach, and speedometer gauges work just fine. I bet that gauge package bought in the millions would cost $50. Wonder how much a new gauge screen costs? Times that savings by hundreds and you're down to $35k easy.
Great!
 
ghost said:
I absolutely love my rear camera. Especially when I hook up a trailer. I would love a front camera to see the car in front of me when pulling in a tight parking lot. But hey I'm old and lazy.
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I get that.
So buy a $200 head unit and a $20 camera for yourself. You can add a $20 front cam if you want. No one is saying you can't have it.
Don't MAKE me buy it. I want a new truck with no screens or cameras. Why can't I get it?
It would be cheaper. Win-win.
 
benXJ said:
Yep, I get all that. the new F150 is 'nicer' than the old ones. I get inflation. How much was a 1978 V8 4wd f150?
I also get improvements in scale, efficiency, technology, consolidation, world markets and brain/computing power. How much was a 30 in. TV in 1978? (if you could even get one)
A dancing LED headlight assembly that costs $500-$1000 is not helping anyone but Fords bottom line, yet we scoop them up. Then we all pay higher insurance premiums to fix these unnecessarily expensive and complicated machines. Each truck comes with $4k in head/taillights. Nuts.
Analog water temp, oil pressure, fuel level, tach, and speedometer gauges work just fine. I bet that gauge package bought in the millions would cost $50. Wonder how much a new gauge screen costs? Times that savings by hundreds and you're down to $35k easy.
Great!
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78 150's weren't 4dr...but also not uncommon for half ton 4x4's to be in the $10k range.

But point remains, you said $35k was reasonable...outside of Covid driven prices, we'd be there and we were there recently, and probably will be again. The last 2-3 years have been an outlier.
 
benXJ said:
They could, and would, if the morons would quit buying $90k depreciating assets.

We don't NEED a $5000 suite of anti-crash tech.
Don't NEED a $3000 full dash screen
Don't NEED 17 'terrain' modes
Don't NEED an $2000 electric power steering system with 10 yaw, angle, and ratio sensors that is then tied into the 17 Body and Engine control computers.
Don't NEED swoopy, integrated into the bodywork $500 tail light assemblies that dance.
Don't NEED embossed $1000 tailgates and bedsides
Don't NEED swoopy, integrated into the bodywork, $500 headlight assemblies that 'dance'
Don't NEED a movie to play when the door is open
Don't NEED compound turbos and cylinder deactivation and start-stop and 1000 watt electric motors strapped to transmissions
Don't NEED TPMS, cameras, rear view mirrors with compasses and thermometers in them
Make it safe, make it reliable, and make it look pretty good. What else is needed?

A new 4 door V8 F150 XLT 4x4 is $57k base. WTF. It could cost $35k if they wanted it to.....and be just as comfortable and safe.
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Don't NEED pussy either, but it sure is nice to have.
 
In 2016 my 2wd, fully loaded ram was $28k......same truck today is north of $45k.....Covid has turned stuff upside down.

That being said, I would take a plain Jane truck with power windows, heat/cooled seats, heated steering wheel, and a backup camera..... everything else does nothing for me....touch screens in cars is also about the dumbest/ugliest upfit I this generation of automobiles.
 
shelby27604 said:
That being said, I would take a plain Jane truck with power windows, heat/cooled seats, heated steering wheel, and a backup camera..... everything else does nothing for me....touch screens in cars is also about the dumbest/ugliest upfit I this generation of automobiles.
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YES! That would be the real "Men's Edition". Even drop the heated seats, don't need that. But a heated steering wheel and cooled seats, backup cam, and power windows is a combo I use all the time. Usually, I just finished loading up something, and I'm hot and sweaty from working and need to dry off the backsweat and don't want to fog up the window because I need the mirrors and I gotta hook up the trailer, but my hands are cold because its 30 degrees out. And Bluetooth because my wife is calling and wants to know why I'm not home yet.
 
shelby27604 said:
In 2016 my 2wd, fully loaded ram was $28k......same truck today is north of $45k.....Covid has turned stuff upside down.

That being said, I would take a plain Jane truck with power windows, heat/cooled seats, heated steering wheel, and a backup camera..... everything else does nothing for me....touch screens in cars is also about the dumbest/ugliest upfit I this generation of automobiles.
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my 15 tundra 4x4 4dr was $39k sticker new. Loaded- leather, sunroof, touchscreen cameras front and rear and heated seats.

Same truck last year - prior to the new redesign and loss of a V8 as an option....$62k was sticker.
 
jeepinmatt said:
YES! That would be the real "Men's Edition". Even drop the heated seats, don't need that. But a heated steering wheel and cooled seats, backup cam, and power windows is a combo I use all the time. Usually, I just finished loading up something, and I'm hot and sweaty from working and need to dry off the backsweat and don't want to fog up the window because I need the mirrors and I gotta hook up the trailer, but my hands are cold because its 30 degrees out. And Bluetooth because my wife is calling and wants to know why I'm not home yet.
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The way everyone has a different "perfect" option list, the only way to satisfy everyone would be made a move to "made to order".
Then I suppose prices go up since not as mass produced.
 
benXJ said:
It would be cheaper. Win-win.
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The auto manufacturer isn't a winner there. They make more $$ by selling you more stuff, whether you want it or not. That's the whole point.
 
jeepinmatt said:
YES! That would be the real "Men's Edition". Even drop the heated seats, don't need that. But a heated steering wheel and cooled seats, backup cam, and power windows is a combo I use all the time.
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Found the fat guy.
Skinny folks with bony asses like heated seats :D
 
RatLabGuy said:
Found the fat guy.
Skinny folks with bony asses like heated seats :D
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Best part about driving our edge every day now. Heated seats are a game changer, I can live without the heated steering wheel but it is nice.
 
I could go damn near super plain jane on a new truck. Just give me power windows and locks. I don't require anything else. It also could be that I don't know what I am missing since I have never had any of those fancy features like heated/cooled seats, backup camera, heated steering wheel, touch panel etc.
 
Ron said:
my 15 tundra 4x4 4dr was $39k sticker new. Loaded- leather, sunroof, touchscreen cameras front and rear and heated seats.

Same truck last year - prior to the new redesign and loss of a V8 as an option....$62k was sticker.
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59% more expensive 8 years later. Hmmm. The average American guy probably isn't making 59% more money than he was 8 years ago.
 
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