Automotive bubble....has it burst?

ghost said:

"Hydrogen will likely remain a niche technology among cars, pickups, and SUVs, but like diesel has been an alternative to gas, Hydrogen still stands a decent chance of becoming the fuel of choice for long-distance trucking, heavy-duty work, and power generation in a zero-carbon-emissions future. Fuel cells offer longer range and quicker refueling than battery-electric vehicles, giving them an advantage in industries where every minute of downtime has an impact on the bottom line. Advocates believe a relatively small, strategically spaced network of hydrogen filling stations could make fuel cells a viable alternative to the diesel engines that drive so much of the modern economy."
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Currently most of the hydrogen cells though depend on natural gas to extract.
Which begs the question why not just skip a step and use CNG...but I digress.


EV has a long way to go, but there is also a lot of shortsightedness going on in the counter argument also. Sure the pumps may work in the cold - but what about refinery lines and transmission lines? Those require temp regulation to flow - and most of the diesel fanboys who haven't really worked close in the distribution side frequently forget how much electricity is consumed extracting and refining the fuel.

To be clear, the scale of justice for net carbon impact still lands on the pro fossil fuel side, its just much much closer than the simple arguments make it seem.

if it wasn't, the worlds largest oil companies would not be investing 3:1 on EV solutions and plays
 
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Jody Treadway said:
Seems both his Jeeps have more miles on them in the last few years than your TJ in its entire life?
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FIFY

Also, I parked it in the barn so I can find it in 10 years and sell it for a million bucks.
 
Ron said:
Currently most of the hydrogen cells though depend on natural gas to extract.
Which begs the question why not just skip a step and use CNG...but I digress.


EV has a long way to go, but there is also a lot of shortsightedness going on in the counter argument also. Sure the pumps may work in the cold - but what about refinery lines and transmission lines? Those require temp regulation to flow - and most of the diesel fanboys who haven't really worked close in the distribution side frequently forget how much electricity is consumed extracting and refining the fuel.

To be clear, the scale of justice for net carbon impact still lands on the pro fossil fuel side, its just much much closer than the simple arguments make it seem.

if it wasn't the worlds largets oil companies would be investing 3:1 on EV solutions and plays
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Nucular
 
Came back to post the same thing. If I could buy a nuclear-powered steam turbine driven truck I'd do it today.

So long as it had a train whistle with it
 
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I would guess that many EV owners in those cold climates have heated garages. And most of their driving is going to be a commute where they can still get back home and charge it overnight. So if they choose to take a long trip in the cold in an EV, they just need to account for the time. It’s all a trade off.

I think Amazon adding so many electric delivery vans will likely advance the EV technology quicker, and I hope it does.
Decreasing the demand for fossil fuels, which all of us here want to keep using, can only be a good thing for our wallets.

I also hope the SMR (Small Modular Reactors) technology gets approved by the NRC and can be financially viable. I have several coworkers that have been enticed to leave to go work on the design of those.
 
I'm afraid a decrease in demand of fossil fuels won't affect the price. If they continue to produce a product they will maintain profit margins at consumer expense
 
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I'm certain that more EV's won't decrease the demand for fossil fuels until with have a nuclear infastructure in place 🤷‍♂️
 
jeepinmatt said:
I'm certain that more EV's won't decrease the demand for fossil fuels until with have a nuclear infastructure in place 🤷‍♂️
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Yup. One might could argue that reducing the amount of trucks using diesel, might create the surplus to drive down the prices, but trucking isnt the main consumer of the fuel. I dont see the maritime industry going EV soon... but nuclear could be an option.
 
paradisePWoffrd said:
Yup. One might could argue that reducing the amount of trucks using diesel, might create the surplus to drive down the prices, but trucking isnt the main consumer of the fuel. I dont see the maritime industry going EV soon... but nuclear could be an option.
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Remember seeing this at Patriots point when I was a kid.

en.wikipedia.org

NS Savannah - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
VortecJeep said:
I would guess that many EV owners in those cold climates have heated garages. And most of their driving is going to be a commute where they can still get back home and charge it overnight. So if they choose to take a long trip in the cold in an EV, they just need to account for the time. It’s all a trade off.
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A lot of people live in apartments. Perhaps today's Tesla owners are of the socioeconomics that they own a garage, but with the push to EV and blackballing the ECE thats going to change and all those other people are going to have to address this.
 
I will never understand why they are giving electric car people free fuel, but not also doing the same for gas and diesel vehicles. Or maybe I do understand it and that's why I hate all of "them".
 
They're being set up. As soon as the switch is made watch out . They'll come for your wallet.
 
jeepinmatt said:
I will never understand why they are giving electric car people free fuel, but not also doing the same for gas and diesel vehicles.
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Typically Democrats invest in electric and solar, so they get kickbacks
Republicans invest in fossil fuels and they get kickbacks when in office
 
sawdoff said:
They're being set up. As soon as the switch is made watch out . They'll come for your wallet.
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So as a new EV/Solar owner, it made sense for my house and general purpose vehicle. As was mentioned, I have a garage and NC gets plenty of sun. So, it's a solid choice with the current infrastructure when I do go on road trips.

Would I only own an EV at this point in time? Nope. I have my Jeep. Do I see EVs EVER being the end all be all transportation solution? Nope, not even with solid state batteries or a nuclear reactor in my backyard.

I think EVs are a solid choice for a general purpose commuting/roadtrip vehicle when you have an ICE vehicle sitting beside it.

And yes, they are already charging additional taxes and fees for EVs to offset the fact our road taxes aren't coming from gas taxes. Which I also agree with.
 
Southern_Transplant said:
NC gets plenty of sun.
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🤣
Sorry, but 130days is NOT a lot of sun.

That's why solar failed in the 70's, then why hicks water stoves and solar backup failed in the 80's and why in the 90's and 2000's all the applications owners asked us to implement (against our advice) all failed and they ended up wasting money.
The technology still isn't there to make solar a viable option east of Colorado. Hence why Duke is no longer offering massive credit towards solar installation.
While Europe and Asia has some very interesting applications, we just aren't there yet in the US.

[Soap box]
For public funds.. it's truly a waste. There's just no support (maint dept that barely have enough employees to change the filters in HVAC equipment, and licensed plumbers mowing grass 🤦🏾‍♂️) and private business spends thinking they're getting a premium product... And they ARE but most of the time aren't willing to pay for premium upkeep.
I've listened to vendors pushing their solar and photovoltaics for decades and everyone of them have relied on Duke credits to justify long term payback.. and now those are gone. So they're looking for govco handouts to push their products.
[/Soap box]

Best of luck to you in your application. I truly hope you can reply back to this in 2 years and serve me up some crow 🤘🏿 but from what I've experienced.. I'm not expecting to see that plate
 
CasterTroy said:
🤣
Sorry, but 130days is NOT a lot of sun.

That's why solar failed in the 70's, then why hicks water stoves and solar backup failed in the 80's and why in the 90's and 2000's all the applications owners asked us to implement (against our advice) all failed and they ended up wasting money.
The technology still isn't there to make solar a viable option east of Colorado. Hence why Duke is no longer offering massive credit towards solar installation.
While Europe and Asia has some very interesting applications, we just aren't there yet in the US.

[Soap box]
For public funds.. it's truly a waste. There's just no support (maint dept that barely have enough employees to change the filters in HVAC equipment, and licensed plumbers mowing grass 🤦🏾‍♂️) and private business spends thinking they're getting a premium product... And they ARE but most of the time aren't willing to pay for premium upkeep.
I've listened to vendors pushing their solar and photovoltaics for decades and everyone of them have relied on Duke credits to justify long term payback.. and now those are gone. So they're looking for govco handouts to push their products.
[/Soap box]

Best of luck to you in your application. I truly hope you can reply back to this in 2 years and serve me up some crow 🤘🏿 but from what I've experienced.. I'm not expecting to see that plate
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I just marked my calendar. TBH, my breakeven is at the seven year mark if energy prices remain the same. But this is dependent on South River EMC 1:1 net metering and the nice tax credit.
 
NO...not yet.Not even close.

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Southern_Transplant said:
I suppose if I disconnect the battery and charge it in my kitchen. You could also look up how many fires or issues are caused by having an ICE engine or fuel stored in your garage.
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None are caused by having fuel stored in there. Fuel can sit there a hundred years without issue and not ignite itself. With that said, the prevalence of EV vs IC fires is probably similar.
 
jeepinmatt said:
I will never understand why they are giving electric car people free fuel, but not also doing the same for gas and diesel vehicles. Or maybe I do understand it and that's why I hate all of "them".
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Tesla set up their own charging network with (once propriatary) plugs to entice you to buy a Tesla with free bespoke charging for a time

nice incentive, nothing more

Tesla is the 'they', not some scary boogyman
 
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