Automotive bubble....has it burst?

benXJ said:
Tesla set up their own charging network with (once propriatary) plugs to entice you to buy a Tesla with free bespoke charging for a time

nice incentive, nothing more

Tesla is the 'they', not some scary boogyman
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I’m not talking about Tesla. I’m talking about all the big businesses and government buildings with free EV charging that are pushing this EV agenda.
 
jeepinmatt said:
I’m not talking about Tesla. I’m talking about all the big businesses and government buildings with free EV charging that are pushing this EV agenda.
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Here's my take on it from a couple months experience, businesses put charging points outside (some are free 240v points) because it is a gimmick that parks someone with money at your location for about 45 minutes. They tend to walk in and spend between $5-20 dollars in that 45 minutes. The power costs about $0.30 for that amount of charging.

I guess they could offer everyone $0.30 of gas if they want to promise to stay for 44 minutes after the 10 second splash of gas.
 
VortecJeep said:
I would guess that many EV owners in those cold climates have heated garages. And most of their driving is going to be a commute where they can still get back home and charge it overnight. So if they choose to take a long trip in the cold in an EV, they just need to account for the time. It’s all a trade off.
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The irony is If they live in a cold climate those heated garages/houses would be heated by fosil fuels not electricity.
 
Southern_Transplant said:
I suppose if I disconnect the battery and charge it in my kitchen. You could also look up how many fires or issues are caused by having an ICE engine or fuel stored in your garage.
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Electric vehicle fires are causing significant changes to the building codes because of the increased risk to people and property they represent. It's a unique problem, and stupid to compare them to gas motors.
 
shawn said:
Electric vehicle fires are causing significant changes to the building codes because of the increased risk to people and property they represent. It's a unique problem, and stupid to compare them to gas motors.
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I wouldn't say it's stupid to compare one risk to another. Building codes are in place for multiple risks. Your car, your gas range, fireplace, furnace, clothes dryer, etc. all represent known fire risks.

Do you want to make sure you get it right when you pump 240v of AC current through a box into a 100kWH DC battery? You bet your ass you do.
 
Southern_Transplant said:
I wouldn't say it's stupid to compare one risk to another. Building codes are in place for multiple risks. Your car, your gas range, fireplace, furnace, clothes dryer, etc. all represent known fire risks.

Do you want to make sure you get it right when you pump 240v of AC current through a box into a 100kWH DC battery? You bet your ass you do.
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Someone remind me how you put out a lithium ion fire. I’ll wait.
 
jeepinmatt said:
None are caused by having fuel stored in there. Fuel can sit there a hundred years without issue and not ignite itself. With that said, the prevalence of EV vs IC fires is probably similar.
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A battery can also sit for hundreds of years and not ignite itself
It always takes an outside force of some kind :D . Like extra current.
 
RatLabGuy said:
also sit for hundreds of years and not ignite itself
It always takes an outside force of some kind
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It seems road hazard damage is the most likely culprit. Manufacturing defects might factor in, but difficult to say to what extent. Charging is more likely to create the conditions for thermal runway, but not required. Damage to the cells is ultimately the cause.
 
NickMaul said:
Someone remind me how you put out a lithium ion fire. I’ll wait.
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This is becoming more and more prevalent in my industry(tolling/infrastructure etc). There is simply not a good way to extinguish an EV fire on the side of the road. The current "best" option is..........bring a watertight dumpster onto the roadway, push flaming vehicle inside, submerge completely.

No exaggeration at all. I spoke with one of Texas' toll authorities last year at a conference. This is their SOP for containing an EV fire. To my knowledge, we don't have any special dumpsters for NC for our toll roads and we have no plans for the future to get one. There are special plug in devices that allow a first responder to plug into the charging port that is supposed to deactivate the main battery but that doesn't really matter if its already on fire.

Our IMAP program is having to reevaluate how they respond to EVs in need on the side of the road. They carry diesel and gas and other fluids. Guess they need a generator now as well.
 
YJJPWrangler said:
This is becoming more and more prevalent in my industry(tolling/infrastructure etc). There is simply not a good way to extinguish an EV fire on the side of the road. The current "best" option is..........bring a watertight dumpster onto the roadway, push flaming vehicle inside, submerge completely.

No exaggeration at all. I spoke with one of Texas' toll authorities last year at a conference. This is their SOP for containing an EV fire. To my knowledge, we don't have any special dumpsters for NC for our toll roads and we have no plans for the future to get one. There are special plug in devices that allow a first responder to plug into the charging port that is supposed to deactivate the main battery but that doesn't really matter if its already on fire.

Our IMAP program is having to reevaluate how they respond to EVs in need on the side of the road. They carry diesel and gas and other fluids. Guess they need a generator now as well.
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My advice is to just set it on fire, so it sounds like they are already on the right track, and are just too impatient.
 
YJJPWrangler said:
This is becoming more and more prevalent in my industry(tolling/infrastructure etc). There is simply not a good way to extinguish an EV fire on the side of the road. The current "best" option is..........bring a watertight dumpster onto the roadway, push flaming vehicle inside, submerge completely.

No exaggeration at all. I spoke with one of Texas' toll authorities last year at a conference. This is their SOP for containing an EV fire. To my knowledge, we don't have any special dumpsters for NC for our toll roads and we have no plans for the future to get one. There are special plug in devices that allow a first responder to plug into the charging port that is supposed to deactivate the main battery but that doesn't really matter if its already on fire.

Our IMAP program is having to reevaluate how they respond to EVs in need on the side of the road. They carry diesel and gas and other fluids. Guess they need a generator now as well.
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I work in safety in distribution for a large retailer and they asked me my opinion on lithium ion equipment inside the facility. Basically they got 5 paragraphs of "you need to risk assess losing an entire 2mil sqft facility and a portion of the people inside it to see if that extended charging cycle is worth it in the event a battery blows up". They didn't ask me my opinion after that LOL!!!


I fully expect to see lithium ion forklifts showing up here pretty soon knowing the way cubicle creatures work.
 
VortecJeep said:
I would guess that many EV owners in those cold climates have heated garages. And most of their driving is going to be a commute where they can still get back home and charge it overnight. So if they choose to take a long trip in the cold in an EV, they just need to account for the time. It’s all a trade off.

I think Amazon adding so many electric delivery vans will likely advance the EV technology quicker, and I hope it does.
Decreasing the demand for fossil fuels, which all of us here want to keep using, can only be a good thing for our wallets.

I also hope the SMR (Small Modular Reactors) technology gets approved by the NRC and can be financially viable. I have several coworkers that have been enticed to leave to go work on the design of those.
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Coming from a cold climate: heated garages are pretty rare unless you are a gear head/use it for something other than storing cars. Reason being they suck up tons of energy to heat them and it all goes right out the door (literally) when you open it.
 
NickMaul said:
Someone remind me how you put out a lithium ion fire. I’ll wait.
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shawn said:
What about inside a building? (rhetorical question, of course)
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Our Lab Safety folks have declared that any lab that has any devices with Li-anything batteries has to keep a 5 gal bucket of sand on hand. SOP is to drop item in bucket, shake it and run.

"What if the thing that the battery runs doesn't fit in the bucket?"
"Get a bigger bucket, we can give you a 55gal drum if you need it."
 
jeepinmatt said:
My advice is to just set it on fire, so it sounds like they are already on the right track, and are just too impatient.
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I mean...you aren't wrong. But then you have the problem of major asphalt/concrete damage because of the heat and anything else thats in the vicinity. Add in the rest of the people driving past(if Fire/EMS opens a lane). It's just a huge headache.

We have had vehicle fires before, mostly tractor trailers. The damage to the pavement was severe and that was with a near perfect response by Fire to quickly contain and put it out.
 
A few of us at work are wondering what the fire department will do when a class 8 electric truck goes up in flames. They have 10,000-12,000 lbs of lithium ion batteries bolted to the frame.
 
drkelly said:
A few of us at work are wondering what the fire department will do when a class 8 electric truck goes up in flames. They have 10,000-12,000 lbs of lithium ion batteries bolted to the frame.
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Hopefully it's not backed in the garage of a 30 story building at the time
 
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thebrotherinlaw said:
This is the part that makes my ears lay back! The EV market is a huge driver/supporter of child slavery and that fact is always glossed over or ignored.
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Agreed. But those who support it can't see the mines from their mansions. So it's no big deal for them.
Infuriating
 
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