Daniel ?

This will be funded by donations so it can be done sooner than later.
 
snappy said:
This will be funded by donations so it can be done sooner than later.
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Should donations be made to the FOU organization?
 
drkelly said:
Should donations be made to the FOU organization?
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Yes we are using fou for this. If made directly to fs they keep 5%. We directly purchase what we need and report to spending for match funds for rtp grants. Be sure to say on your donation its for ohv trails.
 
snappy said:
Yes we are using fou for this. If made directly to fs they keep 5%. We directly purchase what we need and report to spending for match funds for rtp grants. Be sure to say on your donation its for ohv trails.
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I realize everyone posting here is trying to do the right thing and keep the trails open. I've been running my mouth, so will now put my money where my mouth is and donate to FOU since I haven't been able to make it to a work day.
 
drkelly said:
I realize everyone posting here is trying to do the right thing and keep the trails open. I've been running my mouth, so will now put my money where my mouth is and donate to FOU since I haven't been able to make it to a work day.
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Thanks there DR Kelly!!! Every dollar we have helps, some say the fs should pay it all but that is not going to happen with all the cut backs.
http://www.friendsofuwharrie.org/wordpress/donate/
 
Just got off the phone with Debra and the Atlanta office and they said they were closing the gates to Daniel at 1200 hrs today. Too much stuff needs to be done. Glad I already got to go up it before it got shut down.

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krzyabncanuck said:
Just got off the phone with Debra and the Atlanta office and they said they were closing the gates to Daniel at 1200 hrs today. Too much stuff needs to be done. Glad I already got to go up it before it got shut down.

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Not really what i was wanting to hear happen but i feared it was possible. Is there any way for us to fix it the up coming workday and get it back?
 
So they are planning on building up the firt ledge with class 2 rip rap? That could make it a challenge for driving over, depending on how its done could become harder than the ledge originally if your driving over rocks half the size of your tires or bigger that move around, but it should be able to help with some erosion. (This is not a complaint one way or another, just saying with that size rip rap it could still be challenging)
My only thought is has there been any thought to putting in erosion measures off the trails? Like looking where the water and sediment is coming off the trails, before it gets into more woods and streams and coming up with some slope protection and erosion control measures at the edges and just down hill of the trails that would be designed to control and contain the sediment, such as rip rap stabilzed banks which would help drastically slow down water flow and thus resulting in sediment containment.

I just am bringing up these issues because it's stuff I have to think about and work with on a daily basis. While also working on a master's in Civil Engineering, I work as a consultant construction inspector with the NCDOT for bridge replacement projects, usually over streams and environmentally sensitive protected creeks. Sediment erosion control is one of the most important aspects of it and we always have to be on top of containing and directing the flow of water and sediment to keep from losing any off the projects.
 
ihaterice said:
So they are planning on building up the firt ledge with class 2 rip rap? That could make it a challenge for driving over, depending on how its done could become harder than the ledge originally if your driving over rocks half the size of your tires or bigger that move around, but it should be able to help with some erosion. (This is not a complaint one way or another, just saying with that size rip rap it could still be challenging)
My only thought is has there been any thought to putting in erosion measures off the trails? Like looking where the water and sediment is coming off the trails, before it gets into more woods and streams and coming up with some slope protection and erosion control measures at the edges and just down hill of the trails that would be designed to control and contain the sediment, such as rip rap stabilzed banks which would help drastically slow down water flow and thus resulting in sediment containment.

I just am bringing up these issues because it's stuff I have to think about and work with on a daily basis. While also working on a master's in Civil Engineering, I work as a consultant construction inspector with the NCDOT for bridge replacement projects, usually over streams and environmentally sensitive protected creeks. Sediment erosion control is one of the most important aspects of it and we always have to be on top of containing and directing the flow of water and sediment to keep from losing any off the projects.
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Yes there are settlement barriers if you want to call it that. We installed 10 of them above the ledges and we will be redoing the 2 between the ledges and directing the flow to control the output flow.... George, Flint Holbrook and Debra Walker all discussed this and made the plans Saturday. We had started the process but was under machined and no supplies at the last workday. We started it and got it ruffed in. I would love to have you come out and help advise and look at a couple of other areas if you would like. We are truely trying to be proactive and taking issues to the fs before they bring them to us. ANY help rather it be hard labor, constulting work(I am by no means qualifed but did stay at a Holiday Express last nigt, More knowledge the better), donation of materials or money will be great for anyone that wants to help.
 
I know this is probably out of ignorance - but wouldn't it just be easier to open the bypass up if allowing easy access for everyone is the main concern? What's a hundred feet or so of additional trail alongside the main trail gonna hurt? Heck - if it's a matter of closing the trail altogether, then just close the ledges off and reroute up the bypass. Boring yes, but at least the trail stays open.
 
MadToy said:
I know this is probably out of ignorance - but wouldn't it just be easier to open the bypass up if allowing easy access for everyone is the main concern? What's a hundred feet or so of additional trail alongside the main trail gonna hurt? Heck - if it's a matter of closing the trail altogether, then just close the ledges off and reroute up the bypass. Boring yes, but at least the trail stays open.
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The problem with a bypass is more impact on the area. Plus that section of the forest the elevation changes really are not optimal for a trail.
 
Not the ban hammer !!! Lasted a good amount of time though. I say ban them for life. From the trails too. No good for nothing bearded dude.

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You almost gave me a heart attack. lol. I called the outpost and the lady was down right RUDE! So I called the forestry service and she laughed!
 
MadToy said:
I know this is probably out of ignorance - but wouldn't it just be easier to open the bypass up if allowing easy access for everyone is the main concern? What's a hundred feet or so of additional trail alongside the main trail gonna hurt? Heck - if it's a matter of closing the trail altogether, then just close the ledges off and reroute up the bypass. Boring yes, but at least the trail stays open.
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Plus we would still have to fix the drainage issues so no real big win in doing that......
 
I just called Melissa at the FS and she said 4 people called. I should of had her in on it saying she did not know but would get back with them later. Did not have all my ducks in a row.


But it did get people to get involved and talking about working toward a goal of keeping it open . So it did work in a way.

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Having to deal with Erosion Control on a daily basis, it has become a #1 priority everywhere you go. The people that think Daniel should be left alone "because it's challenging" ,need to find somewhere else to go. I've seen muli-million dollar projects shutdowm because of sediment runoff. Don't you think the Forest Service (government) will do the same? We are very lucky that they are working with us. Enjoy what we have, take care of it & it will be here for a long time.
 
So they are planning on building up the firt ledge with class 2 rip rap? That could make it a challenge for driving over, depending on how its done could become harder than the ledge originally if your driving over rocks half the size of your tires or bigger that move around, but it should be able to help with some erosion. (This is not a complaint one way or another, just saying with that size rip rap it could still be challenging)
My only thought is has there been any thought to putting in erosion measures off the trails? Like looking where the water and sediment is coming off the trails, before it gets into more woods and streams and coming up with some slope protection and erosion control measures at the edges and just down hill of the trails that would be designed to control and contain the sediment, such as rip rap stabilzed banks which would help drastically slow down water flow and thus resulting in sediment containment.

I just am bringing up these issues because it's stuff I have to think about and work with on a daily basis. While also working on a master's in Civil Engineering, I work as a consultant construction inspector with the NCDOT for bridge replacement projects, usually over streams and environmentally sensitive protected creeks. Sediment erosion control is one of the most important aspects of it and we always have to be on top of containing and directing the flow of water and sediment to keep from losing any off the projects.
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Sediment traps are typically used for construction sites for temporary disturbances at or near outlets of storm water discharge. These require periodic maintenance and more frequently when servicing highly disturbed areas without source protection. I remind you of your fluvial hydraulic class, rain drops that fall on disturbed soil detach soil particles, as runoff occurs these detached particles are transported from their in-situ positions. The runoff velocity also has a propensity to detach soil particles and transport them to the outlet. (the old illustration of what is more erosive sediment laden flow or clear water?) Our best approach for long term disturbed area stabilization is to provide source protection. The source protection (erosion control) practices and flow control practices are much better suited to long term disturbed areas like roads and trails. If we can prevent the sediment from being detached and transported we do not have to provide treatment to remove the sediment from the flow before discharge. The eroded particle size distribution is critical in the design of the sediment traps and ponds. The efficiency of these devices is typically controlled by the surface area to peak discharge ratio. Therefore, for the particle size distributions in this area would require large surface areas to reach an acceptable efficiency of 80%. Remember the settling velocity in Ft/s is V=2.81d**2 where d is soil particle diameter in mm at a specific gravity of 2.65. This is hard to accomplish in steep slope sections without significant disturbances, tree cutting, etc. Bottom line not a good practice for trails in the forest.

Hence, the flow and erosion control practices in conjunction with "on trail" sediment control. The basis for the Daniel fix is a combination of upstream water bars for flow control above and below the ledges. The use of a specific designed sediment control device on trail below the lower ledge to contain the fill material and rebuild the trail elevation by capturing sediment and directing the flow off the trail to prevent additional erosion. The fix Snappy mentions is a structural rip rap check V from one hillside to the other with a structural core for support. The V controls the flow for discharge over the stone, or through it, allowing the sediment material to be retained by the check preventing the material from being kicked away by tire traffic or runoff. I have provided Snappy a cad drawing of the fix with approximate dimensions and materials list. It may take a few of these structures to raise the elevation of the trail over a period of time but they would be installed as the previous one filled.

We welcome your assistance in the installation and maintenance of the controls.
 
I am new here, and have never been near the ledges, but, I am hoping to make it out to the April workday. My Tacoma can handle quite a large load for it's size. So, if it is needed, we can load fill in dirt or even some of the rip rap in the bed, if it's needed.
 
I was out here this past Saturday and I have to say it was a muddy soupy mess. I had more trouble than I ever have. We didn't even attempt Daniel because we knew it would b a mess. Had a lot of trouble on some of the regular trails when they got into steep hill climbs just because of the slick mud and clay
 
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