Donaldt Rump v Hillary debate

RatLabGuy said:
My point to Rob was that unless you're making serious bank, it shouldn't be any more.
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So just because it doesn't affect your wallet, it doesn't matter?

You now sound like most of Hillary's supporters and the 45% of the population that pays ZERO taxes.


I don't make millions, but I feel like I've been fortunate. But that doesn't mean I'm OK to giving it away to the govt! I'm going to dodge, duck, weave, and do whatever I can to lower my tax burden to lower my tax rate.

Just realize, the tax rate is just one of many ways the govt taxes higher income people...
they eliminate student interest deductions for higher earners
They charge 16% (actual rate escapes me but I think 16% is correct) tax on any contributions to a Roth IRA
They get hit with massive capital gains taxes
Can't deduct any salary and expenses paid to a full time nanny so both parents can work
Death tax if 65%??? Seriously??? That affects everyone, well, unless you die with $0 to your name...
And many other eliminations of tax credits or additional taxes that I'm forgetting.


So, before you spout off about how it only affects the super wealthy, think that the current tax code is already a major burden on middle class families like mine.

Keep in mind, the top 1%ers are earners that make $350k/yr or more. That's not that hard to achieve and I know of several on this board that fall into that category. To Hillary, her tax rates affect people making half of that and more. She has herself said she was going to tax the middle class more. Really, why would anyone support this???
 
rockcity said:
Death tax if 65%??? Seriously??? That affects everyone, well, unless you die with $0 to your name...
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Currently the first $5.5 million is exempt from the death tax. Hillary wants to reduce it to $3.5 million. The only people who would pay the 65% death tax rate are those with estates valued over $500 million.
 
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Let's just say this: our Government is just to damn big. It has oversight on way to many objectives. It reeks of cooperate abuse. It over regulates States authority on many levels. And lastly has to large a pull in my day to day life in the form of burdening my wallet. For what I pay I feel I am entirely misrepresented by my appointed leaders. But what am I? Blue collar and by the changing scale of social, and economic status soon to be lower income white trash........
 
drkelly said:
Currently the first $5.5 million is exempt from the death tax. Hillary wants to reduce it to $3.5 million. The only people who would pay the 65% death tax rate are those with estates valued over $500 million.
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$3.5 or even $5.5 million isn't hard to have in assets over a lifetime, especially for families with lots of land, farmers, business owners, or most middle to upper middle class families.

Regardless of $ limits, why would anyone support a 65% death tax (or really, any death tax)?

That's why all of my assets are getting converted to a trust. Additionally, if you were to have to go to a nursing home, Medicare requires you to sell all your assets before any coverage. Why subject yourself and family to that? You work your entire life to build up some wealth to pass down to your kids and the govt requires you to sell it before they will cover you? You've paid into the govt all your life, why should you have to sell off everything to be covered? It's freakin stupid.
 
rockcity said:
Regardless of $ limits, why would anyone support a 65% death tax (or really, any death tax)?

That's why all of my assets are getting converted to a trust. Additionally, if you were to have to go to a nursing home, Medicaid requires you to sell all your assets before any coverage. Why subject yourself and family to that? You work your entire life to build up some wealth to pass down to your kids and the govt requires you to sell it before they will cover you? You've paid into the govt all your life, why should you have to sell off everything to be covered? It's freakin stupid.
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See post above....it has to feed itself.
 
rockcity said:
So just because it doesn't affect your wallet, it doesn't matter?

You now sound like most of Hillary's supporters and the 45% of the population that pays ZERO taxes.

I don't make millions, but I feel like I've been fortunate. But that doesn't mean I'm OK to giving it away to the govt! I'm going to dodge, duck, weave, and do whatever I can to lower my tax burden to lower my tax rate.

Just realize, the tax rate is just one of many ways the govt taxes higher income people...
they eliminate student interest deductions for higher earners
They charge 16% (actual rate escapes me but I think 16% is correct) tax on any contributions to a Roth IRA
They get hit with massive capital gains taxes
Can't deduct any salary and expenses paid to a full time nanny so both parents can work
Death tax if 65%??? Seriously??? That affects everyone, well, unless you die with $0 to your name...
And many other eliminations of tax credits or additional taxes that I'm forgetting.

So, before you spout off about how it only affects the super wealthy, think that the current tax code is already a major burden on middle class families like mine.

Keep in mind, the top 1%ers are earners that make $350k/yr or more. That's not that hard to achieve and I know of several on this board that fall into that category. To Hillary, her tax rates affect people making half of that and more. She has herself said she was going to tax the middle class more. Really, why would anyone support this???
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Woah, hold on there fella. Look, I never said I supported it or I like it. I also didn't say that it didn't matter or didn't affect anyone.
I said based on the proposals, as written, it doesn't affect most people - including the vast majority of the middle class. That is just the facts. Not an interpretation or my feelings about it. My goal is to keep the facts on track, not convolute it with opinions.

I'm also not saying you shouldn't be concerned about rules that don't apply to you. I completely agree with that, we should all be concerned about the whole system. I don't make $millions now but hey, I like the idea that maybe someday I will, so hell yes I want the code to be fair for those guys too.

The good Dr. Kelly (heehee) flat said he only cared about what applied to him - and unless he's making a lot more than I expect, the truth is, it won't affect him.

Not following you on the Roth IRA? It's just a post-tax contribution, just like any other purchase or investment, so whatever your tax rate is on that money, you pay it. The benefit comes later. There is a phase-out cap to being able to contribute though.

Oh and yes....
drkelly said:
Currently the first $5.5 million is exempt from the death tax. Hillary wants to reduce it to $3.5 million. The only people who would pay the 65% death tax rate are those with estates valued over $500 million.
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this.
Yes, it's still horseshit, and I don't think anybody should pay it, but again, not likely your concern.
 
WARRIORWELDING said:
Let's just say this: our Government is just to damn big. It has oversight on way to many objectives. It reeks of cooperate abuse. It over regulates States authority on many levels. And lastly has to large a pull in my day to day life in the form of burdening my wallet. For what I pay I feel I am entirely misrepresented by my appointed leaders. But what am I? Blue collar and by the changing scale of social, and economic status soon to be lower income white trash........
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Absolutely agree.
...and I work for the government...
 
The estate tax is definitely horseshit. You already paid tax on the money used to buy your stuff. The only justification I could think of would be cases where the property/inheritance were acquired by some means where the money weren't taxed originally, like it was deducted on the front end. But keeping up with that would be impossible.
 
rockcity said:
$3.5 or even $5.5 million isn't hard to have in assets over a lifetime,
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very true!

i started my 401k at 19 when i started working.... its over 500k now just over 23 years later.... if it keeps going 30 more years, it will be over 1.5 mil
 
rockcity said:
Keep in mind, the top 1%ers are earners that make $350k/yr or more. That's not that hard to achieve and I know of several on this board that fall into that category.
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Jesus, that kind of money sure seems hard for me to achieve. I feel that my wife and I do pretty decent, but I would never get anywhere close to that unless I left my trade and started my own business doing something else. I know a fair share of people make it, but it seems pretty out of touch for someone like me.
 
rockcity said:
$3.5 or even $5.5 million isn't hard to have in assets over a lifetime, especially for families with lots of land, farmers, business owners, or most middle to upper middle class families.

Regardless of $ limits, why would anyone support a 65% death tax (or really, any death tax)?

That's why all of my assets are getting converted to a trust. Additionally, if you were to have to go to a nursing home, Medicare requires you to sell all your assets before any coverage. Why subject yourself and family to that? You work your entire life to build up some wealth to pass down to your kids and the govt requires you to sell it before they will cover you? You've paid into the govt all your life, why should you have to sell off everything to be covered? It's freakin stupid.
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I don't support the death tax either. I just wanted to get the facts straight for this discussion.

The limits will be an even bigger problem in the future as people continue to live longer. Even if they are adjusted for inflation, they should be adjusted higher. I believe I read that the average child born today will live to be over 100 yrs old. That is a lot of years of compounded interest!
 
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I read an article in the WSJ in the last week or so about Hillary's proposed tax plan. A Republican congressman said her proposal was DOA, LOL.
 
Watched 5 mins of it. Got tired of killerys crap so I turned it off. Trump is a rude and crude fella but he thinks like I do on alot. I dont like him and I think he is a prick, but at least hes not a murderer!!!
 
drkelly said:
Currently the first $5.5 million is exempt from the death tax. Hillary wants to reduce it to $3.5 million. The only people who would pay the 65% death tax rate are those with estates valued over $500 million.
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A death tax is one of the most STUPID things on this planet. Someone has worked their whole life to get where they are, regardless of where that is. They have earned it. What gives the government the right to take ANY of my money? We made it for a very long time with absolutely no taxes and things were much better then!
 
rockcity said:
Yes. The actual number may be a little different but it's basically slightly under 50% of the population pays ZERO taxes.
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45.3%, actually.

And everyone pays taxes...sales, property, etc. That's income tax only.

That's why I'd rather see either a flat tax or a national sales tax. That way everyone is paying something. The people that buy more, pay more. And those are typically the people who have more....so if I buy a Focus, I pay whatever % on that price. If my doctor buys a Mercedes that costs 4 times as much, he pays 4X the tax. Seems fair to me.
 
Pacfanweb said:
45.3%, actually.

And everyone pays taxes...sales, property, etc. That's income tax only.

That's why I'd rather see either a flat tax or a national sales tax. That way everyone is paying something. The people that buy more, pay more. And those are typically the people who have more....so if I buy a Focus, I pay whatever % on that price. If my doctor buys a Mercedes that costs 4 times as much, he pays 4X the tax. Seems fair to me.
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That sounds reasonable and I agree it would be fair. The only issue with a consumption tax is that people tend to slow down on purchasing things and therefore, the economy could slow down. It will eventually rebound to normal levels but not after takin a hit.

I believe a balance between a flat tax and a consumption tax exists, I just don't know what it is.
 
rockcity said:
$3.5 or even $5.5 million isn't hard to have in assets over a lifetime, especially for families with lots of land, farmers, business owners, or most middle to upper middle class families.

Regardless of $ limits, why would anyone support a 65% death tax (or really, any death tax)?

That's why all of my assets are getting converted to a trust. Additionally, if you were to have to go to a nursing home, Medicare requires you to sell all your assets before any coverage. Why subject yourself and family to that? You work your entire life to build up some wealth to pass down to your kids and the govt requires you to sell it before they will cover you? You've paid into the govt all your life, why should you have to sell off everything to be covered? It's freakin stupid.
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When/if you get close to or exceed the death tax exemption amount (currently about $5.5 million), you can give your children, their spouses, and your grand children $14,000 each every year. Split your assets up between you and your wife and you can each do it. I think you have two kids. Assuming they both get married and each have two kids, that will be eight people you and your wife can each give $14,000 to every year. That is $224,000 you can give away to your descendants every year to help reduce how much Uncle Sam gets when the grim reaper comes calling.
 
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