East Coast Offroad Race League

GubNi said:
I'd like to race. I wanted to do XRRA. The problem for me is the crazy fees and tough requirements. I don't want to buy a fire suit and have the roof raised so it's 3" above my helment. You don't need crazy entry fees. $50 is about all I'm willing to pay even if it's 100% payback. It's already going to cost me alot in fuel, time, and repairs.
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Hate to say it, but maybe racing isnt for you then. Safty is part of it and yes it sucks having to buy a fire suite and helmet, doing rollover vlaves, catch cans, and proper clearance for a helmet, but these restrictions are put in place for a reason. Reality is, racing isnt cheap. Not for the drivers and def not for the person putting it on. Entry fees are no fun to pay but you cant ask for a huge and grand event with a $50 entry fee.

After doing a few races and going through tech, i feel as though my buggy is as safe as it ever has been. Thats worth alot to me.
 
One other thing to consider. If you are going to have regularly scheduled events, Say once or twice a month, then the average participant will want to have the same vehicle each time he runs, so running the crap out of it would be expensive. I don't think many people here can build a new truck before each event.
 
^^yeah, but if it's a points racing type deal...racers 'should' make sure to finish each race. That could potentially ......ah nevermind...folks are racing ballz out.
 
1) Id be willing to help time/money/ideas/legwork
2) I think you need an event planning mind set. The racers are obviously important, but make the fans want to see it...Ultimately if you have 20 dedicated racers and no fans it will not work; however a fan base will keep it financially viable.
3) To that end I think you need a few classes 3 or 4 tops to develop competition and rivalries. I think a unique idea for class definition would be a points system.
Something like (off the top of my head this would need serious tweaking)
Tires
<31.1 - 1 point
32-35 - 2 points
35-40 - 3 points
40< - 5points
Beadlocks - 3 additional points

Engine
Stock displacement no power adder - 1 point
Improved induction and ignition - 2 points
Power adder - 5 points

Lockers
1 axle only -1 point
both axles - 3 points

Reduction
Dual Cases 3 points
Crawl Box 5 points

Etc for suspenion, axles, weight et al

Then ypu have a 5point and under class a 5-10 point class and a 10+ class

This allows some creativity and options but still should keep it fairly level

4) Land has to be addressed....I think for a 4 race series, the best bet would be to partner with The Farm, DPG, URE Stables and Harlan and use whatss currently available

5) I think you pay 3 positions per race and maybe 3 year end awards
6) Finally I think it HAS to be run like a business....investor/partners, shares, votes, force out plans etc.....there haas to be a way to eliminate drama before it starts...to this end the less chiefs the better...Ideally I think 3-4 directors is where it needs to be...finding those willing to drop the $$$ may be limiting/...


Definitely watching this thread and very interested
 
Dylan W. said:
^^yeah, but if it's a points racing type deal...racers 'should' make sure to finish each race. That could potentially ......ah nevermind...folks are racing ballz out.
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I think that's sort of what I was trying to say in a roundabout way.
 
Ron that point system really makes sense in a mix/match environment.

As mentioned above about a big engine small tire rig. I think that there are 'some' disadvanteges to doing so but after scratching some numbers down.. I penciled up a quick formula that would tie back into the point +/- system
Basically engine size (L) / tire size (N) / some modifier (M)

Using a few quick numbers on both sides of the scale to see what it looked like.
ex:
6000 /40" /60 = 2.5
2400 / 33" / 60 = 1.2
4000 / 33 / 60 = 2.0


My big thing is no matter what class in what form of racing there are always rules biased towards a particular setup. Not saying its not fair or rigged, there just ends up being sweet spot. So rather than have that the points would let each person run their own race and still 'compete' with each other.

ALL That said, i think the rules should be heavily safety oriented and the technical stuff should be open for review and possibly input to ensure it includes the right stuff. Also allow for adjustments to the weighted point system over time to keep things level.

And along those lines, (pun) if possible at specific locations have different lines to level off some of the inherent advantages.

And after typing outloud..... All and all possible it could just boil down to a simple handicapped point system. This would allow for inexperienced drivers to compete with experienced drivers over time. This would encourage the part timer to keep at it yet allow the pro to still compete... Handicap could easily be adjusted per site/location.. Might take a bit more time upfront to properly handicap everyone but i also think it might allow the needed time for everyone to see whats going on and see whats needed/required to do it safely.
 
In my opinion the track is all that matters. The track can be the great eqalizer, if built/set up right.

Take for example, the toyota 2wd truck that placed 2nd in B class...now add alot more rock crawling/racing and maybe some deeper mud...now the pre-runner aint so bad arse...sure he will be fast in the jumps/woops but not so much in the rocks mud...

The race at the Stables was good, but add in more rocks and mud and 4 wheel drive comes in much handier. I ran in 2wd and only pulled the 4wd high 2 times..but that was only for better traction out of the turns with loose dirt.

The track is the equalizer....I'm just saying....
 
Dylan W. said:
In my opinion the track is all that matters. The track can be the great eqalizer, if built/set up right.
Take for example, the toyota 2wd truck that placed 2nd in B class...now add alot more rock crawling/racing and maybe some deeper mud...now the pre-runner aint so bad arse...sure he will be fast in the jumps/woops but not so much in the rocks mud...
The race at the Stables was good, but add in more rocks and mud and 4 wheel drive comes in much handier. I ran in 2wd and only pulled the 4wd high 2 times..but that was only for better traction out of the turns with loose dirt.
The track is the equalizer....I'm just saying....
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Exactly, I think it would be allot more exciting to watch and run.
 
Would make the classifying of the rigs super simple to. At least at first.

A. stock..up to 33'' and one locker(rear)
B.up to 36'' 2 lockers
c.up to 39.5 must have some frame (maybe call this the frame buggy class)
d.whatever..super mods


If there were enough vehicles...maybe then decide to classify by engine size..4 cyl,6, v8..what ever..but until there is enough interest in racing..there would never be enough race trucks to fill all the dif, class..
No way 12 different classes will ever be filled. Thats why engine size, and the obviously needed tire size classes wont work. Ya cant be bothered with engine size. It would be excellent if there were that many racers to fill 12 classes though!
 
^Also a good point

I like that point system to determine what class you will compete in, seems fair enough and it seems like you can tweak certain aspects of your car to meet the point break for whatever class you're aiming for.
I am beginning to agree with Dylan and Mike on the course also, but, it was fun flooring it around the dirt, jumping whenever I could and getting (somewhat) sideways in corners.

BTW, I'll ditto everyone who has said they are more than willing to help out with this.
 
oh yeah for sure..i liked flogging it and drifting too. Thats what I did love..I guess i even wish there were no jumps, just to let it loose like rally car, but fact is, that kind of course would soon lead to , well...cars..lol (which would be bad arse) but if you wanna cater to the typical wheeling crowd ya gotta build the track just excactly right. Ya gotta try to mimic a real trail to a certain degree. Just gotta make it spectator/ crowd friendly.

I imagine the BDB and Mud Devils are all reading this and have some thoughts too.

Remember the Rock Races at DPG? That was really a fun race. That was a IMO perfect course. Some mud,Lots of rocks, some ''open it up if you dare'' spots some mild danger...that had it all, but the attendance lagged..even racer turnout was not that great. Folks need to support these events.

In a way, the original 4x4cross in URE Nat. Forest has set off a sudden wave of interest to most typical 4x4 folks, in the racing aspect of it...I know there have always been races and racers, but it seems that the 4x4cross has opened up a new door for the sport locally. The average Joe can play too. We definatly need to keep that in mind at all times, in all decisions when it comes to this East Coast Off Road Race League Idea.

I am just rambling and as Yager said'' Typing out loud'', but there is for sure a need for something like this.

I think that if the land owners will build it...we will come and run it.
 
Hey...crazy idea here....


What if???

What if all of the ''main'' clubs would host a race?

BDB at the farm....Mud Devils at Playground....CTB ? ....CNC?

The idea is for each club to host a track..all clubs would run the same classes...it could be a 4 or 5 part series, with points and everything.

Each club would play host and make all arrangements for their respective race.

Each club would designate a race commitee and we would all meet and discuss.

Somehow, make proceeds available for ....whatever..United,Southern,Blue ribbon.

Racers entry pays racers purse...

Portions of spectator fees goes to charity...

Hold a raffle at the banquet

Get vendors involved

so on and so on...

One side effect would be...oh gasp...more club participation..more folks wanting to join clubs...the sport is adapting....not giving up.
 
You guys better check into insurance and lawyers and all the legal BS you need to have a "race" or any type of event for that mater before you get all worried about having 37 different classes.

Racing is not cheap, safety is not cheap, and neither is getting sued by some asshole.
 
If done right..clubs that are a part of southern and/or Unted 4wd assoc. can be provided insurance for events. Under the Southern or United umbrella.It's part of being a member club.

This could also generate more racers from other clubs in Southern and United.

Sounds like a great idea to me. It will take some leg work though.

Maybe JC could chime in on this.
 
Dylan W. said:
If done right..clubs that are a part of southern and/or Unted 4wd assoc. can be provided insurance for events. Under the Southern or United umbrella.It's part of being a member club.
This could also generate more racers from other clubs in Southern and United.
Sounds like a great idea to me. It will take some leg work though.
Maybe JC could chime in on this.
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Events are not the same as races. Insurance companies are not stupid either, call it something else, and they'll just drop you.
 
Interesting thread....

Id be willing to help with any part of getting this off the ground. Lots of good ideas and thoughts so far. I feel like there is a very big market for this in the NC area if it could get off the ground.
 
rockmafia said:
Events are not the same as races. Insurance companies are not stupid either, call it something else, and they'll just drop you.
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True.

Still, cant hurt to check on it...tell em' it's a race.

If southern wanted to get involved, they might make some adjustments..if there were decent money in it for them.

I dont know, it's all just thoughts.
 
I'm assuming we're trying to keep the 'grass roots' racing format?

Quick thoughts: (for this new series and to improve upon last weekends fun)

No more than 100 bucks entry regardless of class. $280 bucks was hard to dish out for this last event. I'm sure harder for others than myself. That's more than we pay to race XRRA.
Payouts aren't that big of a deal for 'grass roots' racing.
Trophies are fun.

Only two classes simply based on locked axles or not. Class A: Open diffs. Class B: One or more lockers.
If you're only locked in one axle and don't think you can compete with the guys who are locked in both then go find an open carrier and slap it in for the race. It's racing...you're going to have to do a little work to have fun.
For what it's worth (which is not much on last weekends course) I never locked the rear end this weekend. Locked front open rear all day. And that's usually how most of us roll.

Race weekend schedule: Set it. Keep it. Unless you're absolutely sure that everyone involved has heard about the change...like at a mandatory drivers meeting...and if somethings mandatory...stand by it. Call role.

No prerunning. Foot traffic only to scope out the course.

Try and get at least 2 separate runs in per competitor. Have 'em both count. More opportunity to either create or correct mistakes. It's your choice how you want to drive it.

Completion time. Set it. Enforce it. If times up you take the quickest route to the pits. No question. You don't get DNF's you just get max times.

Don't want to be running around correcting markers all day? Make a penalty for knocking them down.


These are just quick random thoughts...alot stemming from watching and racing XRRA and KOH...

Have fun and let me when it's time to race.:driver:
 
If you went the club event style,

You could require that the racers be a member of one of the said clubs. This would create a "home track" type edge.

Basicly this would be a League for the clubs to get together and have events, racing, and maybe create some interest.

I know I am currently not a part of any club, But if it were required that would motivate me into finally looking into.

Being members would give you a little control over the type of people competing. Maybe weed out the trouble makers.

Like Dylan said each club could host a race/event, Depending of the club (if larger) they could host two a year to help startup.

I think Will have some great ideas. The entry fees would have to be "reasonable", less entry cost = more racers = more payout

Just Ideas
 
I think maybe three classes. Basically the mallcrawler class for stockers, one in the middle, and one where anything goes.
1-Mallcrawlers- street legal, tag required. Factory limited slip diff acceptable (no lockers), 31" max tire
2-Modified - factory-type suspension, 35" tire max
3-Unlimited
 
I think there is "room" for a middle class between the stockers and the Pros. However that will mean the stockers will need to have no mods.

(I am not terribly worried about a guy in a Rubicon beating Brad in an XJ....cuz we all know who is gonna hit it harder)

Stockers (and possibly Rally) will prob have the least obstacles, although maybe a few just so they need to engage 4x4. Although quite frankly I am not really worried about the 2wd guys beating 4wd either based on what I was watching.

I do think there is a difference though between the "typical" trail rig and the "Pro" guys, but have to admit not sure it makes a huge difference.

I saw EVERY racer on Saturday and the reason Will won, is he hit every obstacle harder than anyone else (with the exception of Brad in the XJ/ZJ)

But I am not sure we can class that... at Bowman Gray there is usually just a couple guys that dominate those races too...same in Nascar... so...maybe Stockers vs Modified is a good idea, certainly makes it easier?

We would need to be pretty strict about what is defined as a Stocker.


SAFETY gurus... would like to hear from you what you think reasonable precautions are for the Stockers vs Mods?

Def a helmet....and I am thinking seriously a neck brace.


Final thought for this morning - will actually be working on insurance / looking into same stuff that would be used for dirt track races, etc. Will know more as we go / that is probably going to be our #1 expense. [SFWDA pays 50k or more in insurance per year if I remember correctly]
 
RenegadeT said:
I think maybe three classes. Basically the mallcrawler class for stockers, one in the middle, and one where anything goes.
1-Mallcrawlers- street legal, tag required. Factory limited slip diff acceptable (no lockers), 31" max tire
2-Modified - factory-type suspension, 35" tire max
3-Unlimited
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That would put my 36'' tire xj in Will's class.....:shaking: That wont be good.
 
I think that classes will come as the events are setup...... but I think the one used this time could be modified to work

-- Stock Type Class (bolt on suspensions, long arm ok, lockers, Stock Engine with no turbos, NOS, superchargers) If you can buy it, you can run it (if it came with leafs you have to run leafs)
-- Mod Type Class (custom suspensions, NOS, Turbos, Superchargers ok but no Engine Swaps)
-- Unlimited Class (anything goes)


For the 2wd or even harder stuff, a time penalty for missing an obstacle could be induced 150% of the average time it takes to complete. ie if its a mud pit and it takes an average of 20 seconds add 30 seconds to the time if missed

The classes need alot of looking over and this is probably where people will get pissed and disagree the most.

we need to look into getting a big sponsor to help fund/advertise this.
I work for a new pizza franchise (Donatos, better try our pizza) in this area and the owner is big time into racing and cars and I am sure if we could put something together that looks professional and looks like it will be GROWING he would throw some cash at it.
 
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