East Coast Offroad Race League

My only concern is that the track/style might regress towards more open dirt/rally style racing. While that is def very cool - something like that already exists!
What is unique here is the idea of it being a real 4x4 "trial" type race - hauling ass through the woods over rocks, mud, tight-ass curves, etc. IMO that's what made the URE-based run so popular - people knew it was a real 4x4 trail.
In the end, the organizers need to decide what kidn of niche they wish to fill - continue with something unique, or let it morph more into a classic racing event.

Oh and making it a regional group-based competition deal is a bad idea IMO, b/c it very seriously discourages new folks from coming from other places. E.g., anybody that dosn't live in NC and isn't a local club member.
 
Insurance is the big problem with the smaller private land. . Planning these events is a PITA, and very time consuming. Another Rock Race is being talked about for DPG but its just talk right now. If we do another race theres a few things that won't fly-
stockers with no roll cage- stocker on a race course= a race vehicle & should be held to the same safety standards as a buggy PERIOD.
Poorly built cages or sport cages.
I saw a few vehicles @ ure that IMHO shouldn't have been allowed to race.
 
I suspect insurance will be our #1 expense / I have a few messages out now to the various motorsports carriers about "Special Event" coverage for rock racing.

http://www.capcoverage.com/motorsports.html

http://www.nationalmotorsports.com/
(They appear to be my first choice / they are covering other rock racing events)

http://www.motorsports-insurance.com/

https://wfis.wellsfargo.com/WFSR/ProductsServices/Motorsports/


The one other major issue is Health Dept / making sure the ducks are all in the row for food coverage / bathroom facilities (when camping is involved) etc.


I am hoping that by having a "league" or series to coordinate all of this it will reduce the burden on the land owners and "clubs" running these types of events. Plus give a consistent experience for the fans, racers and vendors.


Yep, on the stockers, I would not consider anything that was missing a door, GLASS (which is part of the structure of the vehicle), etc unless a full rollcage was built to replace it.


Hoping we will have folks with buggy building experience to be the tech inspectors.
 
im just throwing out ideas like I am sure most others are doing.

We atleast I wanna get involved more in racing and honestly I dont care who makes the buck as long as there are more events.

I will do anything I can do to help if its with you Ricky or whoever. I will help multiple people if thats what it takes. It would seam faster to have someone who has setup events before to setup these events also.
 
jrraw23 said:
10-4 yea I mean I just don't wanna see ya'll have to do all the stuff I've already setup over again, we can kinda just jump in together rolling rather than ya'll starting from ground zero
plus like I said there are a few things people seem to be assuming that I know won't work cause I already went that route, not talking about the classes we come up with, more on the organizational/owner side of things
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spill the beans or everyone is just gonna keep talking about it... :D
 
jrraw23 said:
I mean def keep talking about it, ya'll help come up with good ideas, but like I said at this point we're talking business, there's a lot of money involved, I'm not publicly announcing anything till its for sure, I wouldn't have said anything yet but I didn't want SHINTON and a bunch others to have to go through all that stuff when I've already got it taken care of.
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So are you saying your gonna hold a series at the stables? That would be great. I like racing more than once a year, thats why I go up to Tennesse for the race that Doug(Turtle Mechanic) puts on.
By the way its alot of fun, doug digs in his own pocket to make things work well.

I can't speak for Doug but he probably does not have to deal with alot of the crap because the race is held at a motocross track, so I'm sure they have insurance, permits, blah blah...
Essentially he is the promoter and probably renting the track


I guess if everyone wants to start something new you have to ask yourself what is the goal. Is the goal to make money or is it to have fun. To me the answer to that question determines how you go about setting it up

As far as classes go, their is a series called MOROC which I have been pondering getting into, they have a good system

Oh yeah I ain't scared of no rubicon!:driver:
 
Someone explain to me how every mom and pop race track in NC runs everything from bone stock to late model dirt series with minimal entry fees and still deal with insurance? It's easy to just say "insurance is going to kill you" and leave it at that, how the hell are tracks doing it? There's got to be a waiver or something that can circumvent the insurance thing.
 
farmboy said:
Hate to say it, but maybe racing isnt for you then. Safty is part of it and yes it sucks having to buy a fire suite and helmet, doing rollover vlaves, catch cans, and proper clearance for a helmet, but these restrictions are put in place for a reason. Reality is, racing isnt cheap. Not for the drivers and def not for the person putting it on. Entry fees are no fun to pay but you cant ask for a huge and grand event with a $50 entry fee.
After doing a few races and going through tech, i feel as though my buggy is as safe as it ever has been. Thats worth alot to me.
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X2...you wanna run with the big dogs...you got to pay to play.
 
Insurance is at least $1000ish or so per DAY... 2 day events they said 50% or so off for the 2nd day. Just based on what I told him so far. I won't know full details until they do a complete writeup.

Anyone can crunch numbers, I can tell you I have done it in Excel and there is not HUGE money in any of this, certainly not compared to the risk. (Much better off to invest in SP500 for sure)

Sam
 
SHINTON said:
Insurance is about $1000ish or so per DAY... 2 day events they said 50% or so off for the 2nd day.
So you are looking at $1500-2000ish for a given weekend.
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I know the motorcross track in TN aint payin that much, if so they would be out of business! PM Doug (Turtle Mechanic). Get his thoughts, super nice guy if you haven't met him. :beer:
 
Starting Gate

If anyone needs any Ideas on a starting/finishing gate with automatic timers, let me know I can help set up something and I would do it for cost (labor free)

My company does that type of work. Detection systems, It would be fairly easy to set up a photo beam that started a large timer and then stopped it when the rig pasted back through it.

I can make it portable, So it could be set up at each event.

Let me know
 
Sounds to me like Ricky has it all planned out, so just get out your wallet and pay to play...

This sounds very much like the 'who wants to buy land' post. Everyone wanted it 10miles from their house and beyond that wasn't interested. And the rest disappeared when it came time to simply raise your hand that you actually had $ to spend..

Personally I would not build or modify anything I had more than general safety stuff to meet a class requirement for events held only at one location/owned place.

Thats why I think the class definitions are usually what makes/breaks the racing. As soon as one place owns the rule book things suck... Thats why IMCA and other not track specific rules type racing bodies have as big a following and people can go to any number of places running those rules and have a chance.

I've said it before but look at Ftoy... Sorry but i think more people would have gotten onboard to a spec chassis type class if it wasn't proprietary..

I know your looking out for your own interests to protect your time/effort (and make $$) but I think if you focus on making your place/track the best place to host the particular class/events and provide the facilities and needed track/safety items people will choose your venue vs others that will pop up... all that vs the 'I have it all planned out' attitude.. Great spill the beans... Don't turn this into a hendrix chassis 'its comming soon' bs to deter would be competition from getting started...
 
jrraw23 said:
that's kinda way off from how it really works man, like I said, chill for a bit, and we'll talk sometime later tonight or something
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Yeah everyone...lets be quiet..Dont ya know that Ricky and Johnny are going to ''corner the market''. Just kidding Ricky...!


I'm with Yager here...no need to compete against other venues...hell the entire point of this post is to try to form a league, so we can race at diferent places.

The classes should be consistant(like nascar) but the tracks should be different(like nascar) and no one particular person should be looking to get rich(un like nascar) I'm all for Johnny making a million bucks..he deserves it, but at the same time...dont try to deter others...or compete against other venues. Every land/track owner should look at each other as allies.
 
jrraw23 said:
10-4 yea I mean I just don't wanna see ya'll have to do all the stuff I've already setup over again, we can kinda just jump in together rolling rather than ya'll starting from ground zero
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Um isn't that what Dylan was trying to tell you like, oh, about 5-6 months ago?
 
if the payouts for racing was covered by the competitor's entry fees, surely the 500 people at the stables that paid at least $10 (some $25 or $30) would be plenty to cover the cost of insurance for a day or 2 plus rent on some land, etc... How many people were being paid there, maybe 3 or 4, the rest were volunteers. I just don't see how its a break-even business or just barely making any $$$ to pay the bills with all those people there paying to get in, paying to race, paying to eat, vendor booths, etc. etc.

call me crazy, but this isn't rocket science, its simple business. Regardless of the type of business, they all generally function the same and the end goal is the same ($$$$) People wouldn't do it if $$$ wasn't being made.
 
rockcity said:
I just don't see how its a break-even business or just barely making any $$$ to pay the bills with all those people there paying to get in, paying to race, paying to eat, vendor booths, etc. etc..
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now of course Ricky is the expert here, not me :shaking:, but my bet is this ancillary stuff is where the $$ is at. Landowner/sponsor gets a % of the food profits - think about all those hotdogs and cokes at $2 each, when cost is pennies. Likewise vendor fees, sponsorships, gate fees... the race entrees basically cover the cost of payout, it's the spectators that are where the $$ is at.
So the question is, who are you/we racing for - just ourselves, keep it small/cheap/"grassroots" or sell to teh crowds? This dictates what you do with the venue. Johnny is a businessman, this is how he runs it.

Here is a serious question for you potential volunteers and those who did the event last weekend.
How do you feel about volunteering a weekend of time/sweat with no $$ reward if you know somebody else is raking in the cash from it? Just curious.
 
Ricky, its nothing against you. You woked hard and it showed. There will always be people that aren't happy. I enjoyed myself at the race. Thank you for your hard work.

I'm just trying to think outloud and analize the racing event since nobody that was "involved" is speaking other than "i've done it I got it covered"

This race thing can't be but so hard. Its just a business. Equipment rental, land rental, insurance, safety, mobilizing, demobilizing, site prep, good customer relations, good vendor relations, organization, permits, subcontractors, etc. All pretty typical business stuff, nothing complicated about it...

So, I'm thinking outloud and maybe others with some more experience can chime in and refine my or their "thinking". Opinions and thoughts from others will improve your business even if you think you've done it all. I guarantee you haven't. I've been in heavy construction for the last 10 years and I learn something new everyday, usually from somone that works FOR me or a greenhorn.


Open your ears and listen a little. Some of the people talking are highly educated in ways you'd never expect. You'd be surprised what you can learn from them.

Ok, back on track.

I like the grassroots type and keeping the rules/classes consistent from venue to venue.
 
RatLabGuy said:
Here is a serious question for you potential volunteers and those who did the event last weekend.
How do you feel about volunteering a weekend of time/sweat with no $$ reward if you know somebody else is raking in the cash from it? Just curious.
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Being that I was only down there for the weekend, got one of the best seats in the house, and didn't have to pay to get in... I'm fine with it. I feel like I had more fun helping out and not getting paid than just a person walking around. I guess I just like doing things like this to help out.

Now If i was there every weekend helping out and spending time I would have spent working, I would want to get paid.
 
RatLabGuy said:
Here is a serious question for you potential volunteers and those who did the event last weekend.
How do you feel about volunteering a weekend of time/sweat with no $$ reward if you know somebody else is raking in the cash from it? Just curious.
Click to expand...

kcon said:
Being that I was only down there for the weekend, got one of the best seats in the house, and didn't have to pay to get in... I'm fine with it. I feel like I had more fun helping out and not getting paid than just a person walking around. I guess I just like doing things like this to help out.
Now If i was there every weekend helping out and spending time I would have spent working, I would want to get paid.
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I just want to clarify - I'm not knocking anybody for making money! Hard work deserves pay (that's capitolism). But when one person profts (esp if it's a lot) it potentially raises some interesting questions.
For the record if I were more local (and not racing) i'd be in for volunteering, esp if food were free!
 
RatLabGuy said:
Um isn't that what Dylan was trying to tell you like, oh, about 5-6 months ago?
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good point...but thats beside the point.

Ricky...with all the work you have put in for the stables..You should have a running truck. It's not my business or anyone elses business what you get paid, or what you're planning for the future. Let us know about your plans when you want to.

I hope you dont burn yourself out, you have a lot of heart and drive...thats what it takes to make it!! Hope I didnt piss ya off, I was only joking about you and Johnny 'cornering the market''.

Like someone said earlier..we just want/need more races, and /or places to race....the mud trucks race at different venues, with the same rules, in a series...so I dont see why trail rigs and rock crawlers cant do the same.
 
RatLabGuy said:
How do you feel about volunteering a weekend of time/sweat with no $$ reward if you know somebody else is raking in the cash from it? Just curious.
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Volunteer hours = 8-24 hrs for the weekend
Ricky's hours = I am guessing 300-800 hrs over the past 4-6 months to make this happen. Not to mention his expenses.

Who should get paid? Ricky
 
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