free roll cage material

drkelly

Dipstick who put two vehicles on jack stands
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Location
Oak Ridge/Stokesdale, NC
I see the misunderstanding of schedule 40 pipe and 110v flux core welders still exists. If we all keep reposting it on the internet then it must be true, right?
 

drkelly

Dipstick who put two vehicles on jack stands
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Location
Oak Ridge/Stokesdale, NC

DAWGTOY

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2006
Location
tanzania
had to go back a few pages to see what the tank thing was all about. whew i hope
he don't wheel with that thing just tyed in there with a ratchet strap.

is schedule 80 poop pipe better than schedule 40?

i have made a couple chicken coops outa wrecked trampolines tho.
actually 1 trampoline makes 2 coops.
 

obullfish

Carolina Trail Blazers
Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Location
Candler N.C.
I am no rocket surgeon or anything but schedule 40/80 pipe is not safe for building a chassis or cage in my not professional opinion.
 

CasterTroy

Motarded
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Location
Wallburg
I prefer sch 40 CPVC.
Trail repairs are sooo much quicker.

If it's good enough to direct vent boilers, it's GOTTA be good enough for the trail!
 

jeepinmatt

At least half the people are dumber than the rest
Joined
Mar 24, 2005
Location
Stanley, NC
I see there are a lot of internet experts on both sides of the aisle this morning. Anybody care to posts the specs of schedule 40 vs DOM tubing? I like to use good stuff too, but Sch40 is probably a lot stronger than 1/16" wall tubing, and since nobody is using specifics, this is just pointless internet cockwaggling.
 

McCracken

Logan Can't See This
Joined
Jul 9, 2005
Location
With your mom at a nice seafood dinner
I see there are a lot of internet experts on both sides of the aisle this morning. Anybody care to posts the specs of schedule 40 vs DOM tubing? I like to use good stuff too, but Sch40 is probably a lot stronger than 1/16" wall tubing, and since nobody is using specifics, this is just pointless internet cockwaggling.

thanks for sig material :flipoff2:
 

Chuckman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2005
Location
Huntersville
i guess you forgot all my stuff gets welded in not bolted...those 8"c-channel plates are welded in all the way around to the unibody rails then they are tied together along the bottom with another plate.

you and anyone else who says you can't do nothing safe with 110v welder....you need to go back to welding school i guess cause if there's one thing i DO KNOW is how to weld to the XJ unibody and how to weld with this welder and my welds is probably the only "good" and "proper" thing, lol, that i have going for me. My welds have never ever given or broke or let go. (the winch bumper i did for friend got put to some pretty intense testing recently and he even was telling me he had his doubts for holding but never gave and he was maxing out the 12,000lb winch pulling some heavy crap up some incline.
I've been welding with 110v all my life and for stuff up to 5/16 it burns more than enough but is also very very easy to weld to the smaller sheet metal on floor pans/rockers/rails without putting holes in it.

might benefit you to pay attention in other posts/threads brah....my wife and daughter choose to not ride on anything outside of greens (my daughter does like Easy St though lol) and I wouldn't ever let them ride up anything steeper than Easy St either. You talk "safety" so much........SHOW ME IN THE LAST 3YEARS WHERE ONE OF MY JEEP BUILDS HAS FAILED ME AND CAUSED HARM TO ME OR ANYONE AROUND ME. if I had the money for it, I would roll this pile of metal along with another xj with "worthy" cage down 500ft drop and still put my money on mine...why? cause i know how to weld what i know and what i do and my cage might be from scrap pieces of thick metals but i know it will hold and get the job done and then some.


just wow. when he lays this over and all the welds break, can we say we told you so? let me get this straight. you are welding a cage into a unibody? oh, wow. a whole new level of wow. AND youre burning 5/16" with a 110v buzz box? extra wow. I'd love to see those welds tested. wow, man. you live in your whole little world of strengths of materials don't you. you do realize that we are talking about roll cages intended for barrelroll down the mountain type carnage, not side flops, right? perhaps thats the problem. and no, you don't get to pick what disaster youre involved in, it merely happens and you hope that your homework was adequate. Im afraid youll see that unibody rip right at the welds if they manage to hold at all. please for the love of God tell me that you aren't building hitches for people? please just give me that.
 

krehel24

<- and it begins!!!......
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Location
Locust NC
I can't belive I missed the second rising of JF!!!!! I have got to stop working so much!!!! Now he's gone again! Will some one please tell him to kiss my ass for me???
 

drkelly

Dipstick who put two vehicles on jack stands
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Location
Oak Ridge/Stokesdale, NC
It is too funny how the poop pipe vs DOM debate repeats itself on this board every few years. Some people know the reality of using it first hand and some just repeat what they have heard or read on the internet.

poop cage.jpg
 

hurt4x4

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2012
Location
Greensboro
I seem to remember the welds on JF's stock relocated track bar mount breaking at the Flats a while back. Yet he said his welds have never broken. Just an observation.:popcorn:
 

Mac5005

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2005
Location
Rocky Mount
Schedule 40 pipe has a lower tensile strength than hrew tube.

Hrew tube has a lower tensile strength than hrew-dom. "Dom"

The cold working of the tube through the mandrels increases the strength over normal hrew.

I'm willing to bet that bouncer chassis was hrew, not sch 40.

I'll post specifics and data later.

I have used some sch 40 on some straight, non bent pieces, and gussets, as well as some areas that were prone to rock bashing like rocker steps etc, that were not critical for protection.

The problem with pipe with a seam, is that it is exponentially weaker, when the seam is on the outside of a bend, in tension. This makes the pipe/tube much more prone to splitting and losing its geometry and it's strength.

Remember. Even dom has a welded seam as it begins as hrew.

Chromoly has a higher tensile strength that everything above, but becomes brittle near the heat affected zone after welding, without post weld heat treatment or normalizing/annealing.

Anywho, that is way too much actual tech for this thread that will for sure be lost in translation.
 

Mac5005

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2005
Location
Rocky Mount
just wow. when he lays this over and all the welds break, can we say we told you so? let me get this straight. you are welding a cage into a unibody? oh, wow. a whole new level of wow. AND youre burning 5/16" with a 110v buzz box? extra wow. I'd love to see those welds tested. wow, man. you live in your whole little world of strengths of materials don't you. you do realize that we are talking about roll cages intended for barrelroll down the mountain type carnage, not side flops, right? perhaps thats the problem. and no, you don't get to pick what disaster youre involved in, it merely happens and you hope that your homework was adequate. Im afraid youll see that unibody rip right at the welds if they manage to hold at all. please for the love of God tell me that you aren't building hitches for people? please just give me that.
This.

Regardless of material used, any structural item fully welded to a sheet metal unibody is prone to fail. The proper way to do this is to weld a panel of .090" or .125 sheet metal to the unibody, and weld the tube to the plate.

The plate is not to be welded completely.

It is also good practice to through bolt and sandwich the unibody with another larger plate on opposite side, and use grade 8 bolts of at least. 375".


For practice weld also 1.75 tube to a piece of 16 ga plate, and then destroy it. The sheet metal will hopefully tear at the edge of the heat affected zone. If the weld breaks, you have much bigger problems.
 

marty79

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Location
Vale, NC
youll see that unibody rip right at the welds if they manage to hold at all. please for the love of God tell me that you aren't building hitches for people? please just give me that.
sir you sure talk a lot of trash about stuff you don't know. you obviously can't hack a 110v welder (i can weld 1/2"steel with it and HOLD...ask several customers..one who has been towing his fith wheel for ohh....6years now and that fith wheel plate holding up perfect...2.should've seen Madjeepj10 pound his MJ face first down Laurel lane after loosing his brakes at the top and HOLY HELL...factory brackets ripped off axles and body and guess what...ALL my links, brackets and such on unibody and axles held up perfect with NONE stress cracks. You like most say 110v welders suck...that's just cause you probably started out with 220 and can't work these little guys but a 110 with .35wire done properly can burn 1/2" steel no problem and 5/16" is nothing for it. and again, you don't like my "good enough for me" cage...beat it pal. It's not your rig, your life, or your head so the hell do you care..and BTW we're not wheeling in the "rockys" for crying out loud...we're at the flats and most of what hills "I" would/will be hitting are more than safe enough for my Jeep and My cage to handle.

the sch40 stuff:...my local steel shop whose been in business for ...ohh 25+years says for what i need and do, that stuff holds up no problem for cage material and told me it might "dent" a little quicker than DOM but will hold up....especially when braced properly which mine isn't yet but it's close enough for now and will be finished so you can argue about these stupid pipes all you want but remember something...people have built trucks and buggies and cages for a whole lot less before all our time and they lived and survived ....and I've rolled a Jeep down a bank 3times when drunk long long time ago and survived that pretty well with NOTHING but factory sheet metal.

yes i can build hitches, cages, arms, brackets, crossmembers and i can even properly weld to axle housings...whoop whoop. "Just cause my jeep is ghetto does not represent my work capabilities dude, get real already. You haven't learned in all these years that my jeep is the "leftovers" of finances and materials. My wife, daughter, house, family DD and bills are priorities...what little is left goes in this pile of metal that has taken me places everyone doubted and will continue to do so for long long time.

I would put my XJ with all the frame plating and boxing and rock rails and cage and flat bottom and more bracing...ALL WELDED TO THE UNIBODY...against ANY...ANY...properly caged XJ in a 500ft roll and would bet my whole shop equipment it would hold up and not break apart in any section. Will I? NO cause i'm not engaging in proving anything to people like you but just showing the confidence "I" have in my work and it has proven for me and many many people that are normal...unlike the "pro"fessionals like yourself claiming you can't use 110welder for 5/16??? yeah i trust a Pro who can't weld with 110welder...no thanks, I'll stick to what i know and what i know best.
 

marty79

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Location
Vale, NC
I seem to remember the welds on JF's stock relocated track bar mount breaking at the Flats a while back. Yet he said his welds have never broken. Just an observation.:popcorn:
eeehhhh WRONG...track bar bracket ripped the frame section, never my welds. ripped the stock tie rod threads off second time...then i went and plated that whole section of unibody and the last 4 trips out with it has been flawless...it was my fault since i was not aware of how much stress welded front does to steering and remember it was my first Trailer Toy with welded front and rear so it was all new to me as far as steering strains...lesson learned and fixed no problem.
 

marty79

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Location
Vale, NC
here's a thought:
some people(maybe more than half) in this type of hobby like to do everything by the book, by the science, by the math, and by the chance that
1:100,000,000 chance is too much to risk. >>fair enough I see your point and stance on that if it floats you boat!!
some people (ME) don't mind doing what we know will work, will hold up, will make it, will get by because we know we're not racing big foot, not in rocky mountain climing and most of all>>>>we don't care about the 1:100,000,000 chance that something freakishly accidental would happen.
Lets face it, love and respect to those lost in this sport and others hobbies, but people with properly built rigs and toys and cages have lost their lives for pretty dumb stuff and carelessness and their high dollar rig didn't matter for nothing so just making a point. If I did a MAJOR ROLL and my cage held up but i broke a leg or arm lets say because i rolled some crazy 75ft or more....hey i would be totally happy cause without that cage i would've been dead. enough said.
 

Loganwayne

#BTL
Joined
Feb 15, 2013
Location
Clyde, North Carolina
Maybe you need to talk to pinky on here she rolled her jeep at the SHOP which I assume you plan on going to on something that wasn't really that bad. Her cage was well built and she still got hurt pretty good.
 

Jeff B

Thanos was right
Joined
Dec 23, 2006
Location
Lincolnton N.C.
sir you sure talk a lot of trash about stuff you don't know. you obviously can't hack a 110v welder (i can weld 1/2"steel with it and HOLD...ask several customers..one who has been towing his fith wheel for ohh....6years now and that fith wheel plate holding up perfect...2.should've seen Madjeepj10 pound his MJ face first down Laurel lane after loosing his brakes at the top and HOLY HELL...factory brackets ripped off axles and body and guess what...ALL my links, brackets and such on unibody and axles held up perfect with NONE stress cracks. You like most say 110v welders suck...that's just cause you probably started out with 220 and can't work these little guys but a 110 with .35wire done properly can burn 1/2" steel no problem and 5/16" is nothing for it. and again, you don't like my "good enough for me" cage...beat it pal. It's not your rig, your life, or your head so the hell do you care..and BTW we're not wheeling in the "rockys" for crying out loud...we're at the flats and most of what hills "I" would/will be hitting are more than safe enough for my Jeep and My cage to handle.

the sch40 stuff:...my local steel shop whose been in business for ...ohh 25+years says for what i need and do, that stuff holds up no problem for cage material and told me it might "dent" a little quicker than DOM but will hold up....especially when braced properly which mine isn't yet but it's close enough for now and will be finished so you can argue about these stupid pipes all you want but remember something...people have built trucks and buggies and cages for a whole lot less before all our time and they lived and survived ....and I've rolled a Jeep down a bank 3times when drunk long long time ago and survived that pretty well with NOTHING but factory sheet metal.

yes i can build hitches, cages, arms, brackets, crossmembers and i can even properly weld to axle housings...whoop whoop. "Just cause my jeep is ghetto does not represent my work capabilities dude, get real already. You haven't learned in all these years that my jeep is the "leftovers" of finances and materials. My wife, daughter, house, family DD and bills are priorities...what little is left goes in this pile of metal that has taken me places everyone doubted and will continue to do so for long long time.

I would put my XJ with all the frame plating and boxing and rock rails and cage and flat bottom and more bracing...ALL WELDED TO THE UNIBODY...against ANY...ANY...properly caged XJ in a 500ft roll and would bet my whole shop equipment it would hold up and not break apart in any section. Will I? NO cause i'm not engaging in proving anything to people like you but just showing the confidence "I" have in my work and it has proven for me and many many people that are normal...unlike the "pro"fessionals like yourself claiming you can't use 110welder for 5/16??? yeah i trust a Pro who can't weld with 110welder...no thanks, I'll stick to what i know and what i know best.

eeehhhh WRONG...track bar bracket ripped the frame section, never my welds. ripped the stock tie rod threads off second time...then i went and plated that whole section of unibody and the last 4 trips out with it has been flawless...it was my fault since i was not aware of how much stress welded front does to steering and remember it was my first Trailer Toy with welded front and rear so it was all new to me as far as steering strains...lesson learned and fixed no problem.

here's a thought:
some people(maybe more than half) in this type of hobby like to do everything by the book, by the science, by the math, and by the chance that
1:100,000,000 chance is too much to risk. >>fair enough I see your point and stance on that if it floats you boat!!
some people (ME) don't mind doing what we know will work, will hold up, will make it, will get by because we know we're not racing big foot, not in rocky mountain climing and most of all>>>>we don't care about the 1:100,000,000 chance that something freakishly accidental would happen.
Lets face it, love and respect to those lost in this sport and others hobbies, but people with properly built rigs and toys and cages have lost their lives for pretty dumb stuff and carelessness and their high dollar rig didn't matter for nothing so just making a point. If I did a MAJOR ROLL and my cage held up but i broke a leg or arm lets say because i rolled some crazy 75ft or more....hey i would be totally happy cause without that cage i would've been dead. enough said.


You're an idiot.

*edit

After thinking about this. I think you should wheel this as hard and dangerous as you can. Roll it, with just a shoulder belt and no helmet. Hell, you are so good. Why would you need that crap? You go big man...
 

marty79

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Location
Vale, NC
After thinking about this. I think you should wheel this as hard and dangerous as you can. Roll it, with just a shoulder belt and no helmet. Hell, you are so good. Why would you need that crap? You go big man...
I will thank you very much and i will have lots of fun doing it and nobody will ever take that away from me no matter how hard they try. I will have dual lap belts and dual shoulder belts setup by the time i go up any red trails other than the regulars and hope to find good deal on some kind of helmet too, but that's not for anyone else but me and was planning on all this before I ever made it open here.
Remember i only share my jeep (even though most wouldn't) because I like everyone else is proud of what little I have and not ashamed of one part of it and sharing it just in case others might be intrigued or fascinated or maybe inspired (the "inspired" part would only refer to those of likeminded individuals obviously lol).
 

marty79

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Location
Vale, NC
You're an idiot.
no I'm not...I just make things work and you like others probably can't stand the fact that what you call "deathtrap" and "uncapable" makes you mad probably that it is very capable and holds up better than any money you ever bet on it!!!
 

Jeff B

Thanos was right
Joined
Dec 23, 2006
Location
Lincolnton N.C.
I will have dual lap belts and dual shoulder belts setup by the time i go up any red trails other than the regulars and hope to find good deal on some kind of helmet too

You don't need that stuff any more than a good welding machine capable of burning a strong weld or good quality tubing and education on triangulation. I mean seriously, why one and not the other? Shit man, just go! Don't think just do it!
 
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