"Gonna do it right...maybe!!??" Fuller's new XJ build!!!

Scooter402 said:
Why couldn't you put your mount on that truss so it'll be up high?
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i've tried believe me lol. but there's no room. I suppose since I have a 1.75 tie rod that's part of it?!! so underneath is simplest way I can without getting all crazy with some weird fabbed brackets. At least mounting underneath just means putting a skid over it.

To be honest, I've never installed one of these and I'm sure I'm WAY overthinking it but I'm scared to attempt to mount it anywhere but underneath after being told it can rip off mounts/brake stuff lol so I'd rather not try and "think" I'm doing it right. New things like this I usually don't try and "think it will work" and just try and stick to what others say will work.
Having that said, will that work the way I have it mocked up underneath?
 
and btw, what is this I hear pitman arm affects steering travel? So I have a 4" dropped pitman arm, does this mean if I put the stock one back on I will get more steering travel...like would it go to 8" lock to lock and be good with the ram?
(I'm reading that Pirate thread you sent me a link to right now)
 
Mounting it above or below, the forces and stresses induced are the same...given that the bracket geometry would be similar on either setup. A longer tab will have a greater torque moment, resulting in a higher stress at the weld joint (think using a 1/2" ratchet in place where a 1/4" ratchet would work). That being said, it would function just the same mounted below the tie rod, I'd just look for a way to mount a skid for it. Below the tie rod is a great place for it to kiss a rock.

Here's a tiny example of one for some motivation.
images
 
marty79 said:
and btw, what is this I hear pitman arm affects steering travel? So I have a 4" dropped pitman arm, does this mean if I put the stock one back on I will get more steering travel...like would it go to 8" lock to lock and be good with the ram?
(I'm reading that Pirate thread you sent me a link to right now)
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A pitman arm will effect steering travel. If the 4" dropped pitman arm was intended for the same application as the stock one that came off, the steering travel would be just the same. It's the eye-to-eye distance that makes the difference. If you wanted to gain steering travel, you would need a longer steering arm. By that, I don't mean one with more drop, but with more horizontal separation between the sector shaft hole and the TRE bore. I couldn't tell you which one would be a longer one, but I'm sure someone here knows of a few that would work for that.
 
marty79 said:
well that one thread didn't help lol cause half the guys were saying just roll with it... LOL LOL so now what????
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I think I know which thread you were talking about...I believe there were some that were concerned with the ram over-travelling the steering setup, just as I and @NC-V was saying...someone said that with a 1-1/2" bore cylinder, they wouldn't be too concerned with stress since the stock pump spikes to something like 1000 psi. But with a 2" bore cylinder (which you have in your case) they might look to put a stroke limiter in.

Little maths here...with your 2" bore cylinder, if the pump spikes to 1000 psi, you'd be seeing a tick over 3100 lbs of linear force at the eyes of the mounts, which isn't small by any means IMHO. Add long mount ears to the equation, and you've got some stresses going on...especially if the stops at the axles weren't functional and it was the steering box itself acting as the stops. Multiply that by the horizontal separation from the eyes in your pitman arm, and you can convert that back to a tremendous amount of torque acting on your sector shaft.
 
^^gotcha thanks for clearing that up. makes sense
 
Scooter402 said:
I think I know which thread you were talking about...I believe there were some that were concerned with the ram over-travelling the steering setup, just as I and @NC-V was saying...someone said that with a 1-1/2" bore cylinder, they wouldn't be too concerned with stress since the stock pump spikes to something like 1000 psi. But with a 2" bore cylinder (which you have in your case) they might look to put a stroke limiter in.

Little maths here...with your 2" bore cylinder, if the pump spikes to 1000 psi, you'd be seeing a tick over 3100 lbs of linear force at the eyes of the mounts, which isn't small by any means IMHO. Add long mount ears to the equation, and you've got some stresses going on...especially if the stops at the axles weren't functional and it was the steering box itself acting as the stops. Multiply that by the horizontal separation from the eyes in your pitman arm, and you can convert that back to a tremendous amount of torque acting on your sector shaft.
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so local tractor supply will carry the stoppers, thanks a lot bud. be back in few hours
 
You could literally mount it anywhere on the axle--that's the last place it should go. Why not on the driver's side somewhere? I also would not suggest you take the ram apart but pull the clevis off and add a 1.25" piece of some sort of spacer. Being off parallel by that little won't mean shit especially with a grossly oversized tie rod. Just get it limited, mount the thing and drive the damn Jeep. I'm sure you tapped the box with npt threads--like king of Hudson Jeff said either go to northern or surplus center and buy two 3/8 npt hoses for $12 each and enjoy life. Get them longer than you think.
 
Yeah, Absolutely limit the ram, no question whether you hit the hard stops on the axle or the steering box limits it, no matter the ram size, you NEED to limit the ram. Even if it hits the hard axle steering stops and the ram is small diameter it will still put a lot of extra stress on your ball joints and knuckles. And get that ram up above the axle. Mount it off your diff cover going to the driver side of the TR.
 
braxton357 said:
I also would not suggest you take the ram apart but pull the clevis off and add a 1.25" piece of some sort of spacer
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I bought all the lines and fitting and the mounting is all I lack and I def agree with not taking it apart so tomorrow I'll look for some of those clamp things to buy hope to find them locally if not is there another "remedy" that you know of I could use? don't wanna ghetto rig anything but if there's something you guys know of that works that would be great, thanks. I don't remember seeing any at Northern today when i bought the lines and fittings so Southern States and another Tractor supply place i will check on the way home.
 
NC-V said:
Mount it off your diff cover going to the driver side of the TR
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the front diff cover is the stock 1/8" or little thicker one not the thin kind but is that stout enough for the mount?
i didn't go the drivers side mount cause I'd have to make like 4-5" long brackets off the axle housing to mount it and figured that's too much work and probably not as strong. I was figuring it's way easier to do a flat skid under it on passenger side rather than trying to make a beefy long bracket above on drivers side
 
Well, honestly...what @braxton357 is referring to is unthreading the clevis end and putting any sort of spacer on there. A heavy wall tube that has an ID large enough to slip over the shaft would work. It would probably rattle some going down the trail, but would that bother you? Probably wouldn't bother me.
 
Scooter402 said:
Well, honestly...what @braxton357 is referring to is unthreading the clevis end and putting any sort of spacer on there. A heavy wall tube that has an ID large enough to slip over the shaft would work. It would probably rattle some going down the trail, but would that bother you? Probably wouldn't bother me.
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any chance a simple drawing ...i'm sorry but my stress levels over the past week has got me more confused than ever these days.
 
Scooter402 said:
unthreading the clevis end
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there's like 2.5" of thread on that end I think is what you're referring to so take that off, put a 1" spacer on then thread the clevis back on all the way to end of threads so the 1" spacer will hit the end of the clevis and stop it?
 
348441d1386031050-sources-stroke-control-blocks-pc020005-jpg
 
^^^like this
 
Yeah, collapse the cylinder all the way, measure the distance between the back side of the clevis and the cap on the cylinder (where the rod is going through). Add an inch or inch and some change for insurance, and cut a piece of heavy wall tube that will fit over the rod of the cylinder. Spin the clevis off, put the tube on the rod, reinstall the clevis. Instant homemade stroke limiter.
 
marty79 said:
^^^like this
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Yep, like that. But possibly something that's solid...I'm not sure that if it by some act of craziness in the multiverse that those hose clamps could pop and let go.

You could achieve the exact same thing but with a whole chunk of tube, just by removing then reinstalling the clevis.
 
Scooter402 said:
Yeah, collapse the cylinder all the way, measure the distance between the back side of the clevis and the cap on the cylinder (where the rod is going through). Add an inch or inch and some change for insurance, and cut a piece of heavy wall tube that will fit over the rod of the cylinder. Spin the clevis off, put the tube on the rod, reinstall the clevis. Instant homemade stroke limiter.
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so doesn't this mean that the end of the clevis mount and the mount on that side of the tie rod is now taking all the extra "stopping" force? just trying to understand how all this works. I know the tie rod will handle it but just wanna make sure I understand the logic behind this
 
No, this means now that the stroke of the cylinder is the stop. When it's fully extended, it's the packing inside the cylinder and the underside of the cap that's the stop. When it's fully retracted, it's the back side of the clevis and the cap on the cylinder that's the stop. The rest of the steering system will not act as the stops any longer.

If I may make one suggestion about using a homemade collar for a stroke limiter, is I would come up with some way of securing it to the back side of the clevis...either drill and tap a hole in the collar and use a set screw (preferably contacting that painted part of the rod, since it won't go past the rod wipers), or something else to secure it all the way to the end. That way it won't scratch/gouge the chrome on the rod and make it tear up the wipers and seals in the cylinder cap...that'll make you spring a leak.
 
Scooter402 said:
No, this means now that the stroke of the cylinder is the stop. When it's fully extended, it's the packing inside the cylinder and the underside of the cap that's the stop. When it's fully retracted, it's the back side of the clevis and the cap on the cylinder that's the stop. The rest of the steering system will not act as the stops any longer.

If I may make one suggestion about using a homemade collar for a stroke limiter, is I would come up with some way of securing it to the back side of the clevis...either drill and tap a hole in the collar and use a set screw (preferably contacting that painted part of the rod, since it won't go past the rod wipers), or something else to secure it all the way to the end. That way it won't scratch/gouge the chrome on the rod and make it tear up the wipers and seals in the cylinder cap...that'll make you spring a leak.
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alright I'll make something at work tomorrow. thanks for sticking with me on all this. I think I got the basics of this thing, now just need to hurry up and find a spot to mount the darn thing tomorrow and not stare at it for an hour trying to decide
 
man I can't wait, so close so close to being done. been a heck of a journey that's for sure
 
I would try to move that thing over to the driver side more, so that you can go on top. Maybe you can simply pivot in 180? Leave the axle side mount about where it is on the tube and have the ram pointing to the driverside.

Also, you want to have 1 clevis pointing vertical and one pointing horizontal. The tierod travels in all 3 dimensions as in moves (up/down, in/out, side/side) and the clevis limit movement other then rotating around the pin. Normally folks have the axle side mount horizontal and the tierod side mount vertical. The bolts being slightly loose in the clevis eyes helps with this some too.
 
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