"Gonna do it right...maybe!!??" Fuller's new XJ build!!!

Jeff B said:
Your ram is rated at only 2500psi? What does your system relieve at?
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It's the grizzly surplus one that I see many run. That's what it says is running pressure.
 
1stgenxxx said:
You can get premade lines from surplus center way cheaper than having them made locally
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Oh dang it how much cheaper..was quoted 46 for 2 lines local
 
Jody Treadway said:
What actually MAKES pressure in a power steering system? How much pressure does that item generate?
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apparently most of them 140 at idle up to 2000 maximum working pressure. Good to know.
 
For what it's worth, on my old MJ with a 60 front and hydro assist I ran the following flawlessly:
Stock 88 pump and box, Surplus Center typical 1.5" x 8" cylinder and hoses and fittings from Northern Tool.
That was in 2011. Still going strong today.
You can do it simple and effectively with OEM parts.
 
Jody Treadway said:
Surplus Center typical 1.5" x 8" cylinder and hoses and fittings from Northern Tool.
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awesome thank you. I bought the surplus center 2"x8" cylinder but didn't know Northern Tool had the hoses...I'm guessing they're pre-made? I'll have to go check them out then so I don't have to wait for shipping..next weekend is closing in and this is last final step! thanks man
 
Stock pumps will put out anywhere from 800-1300 psi. May get spikes higher here and there if something hangs up, but on a stock unmodified pump that is working properly, you should not see above 2000psi even momentarily. I have found you have a high likelyhood of snapping the shaft on a saginaw pump if setup to run above 1550 or so

Rebuilt pumps from a parts store could be a crap shoot. I have seen relief valves set up for all sorts of pressures (one shimmed for about 750 psi and another for about 1300) that should all be the same. Rebuilt power steering pumps are about the worst quality stuff out there (Cardone is garbage, and oreilly's new rebuilder is garbage).
 
I'm mounting my ram since have to return the welder and this is the last thing I got to weld on this so I need to know can the ram be off parallel about three quarters of an inch to the tie rod or does it have to be exactly parallel with the tie rod. I'm kind of limited with space here so 3/4 of an inch off seems to be about the best I can get unless I mount it underneath the tie rod..thank you
 
Any chance of on top of the tie rod? I wouldn't go under unless you build a skid for it. Off parallel WILL bend the tie rod. Even if the mounts/cylinder eyes do allow for some misalignment. That 3/4" will proportionally increase when the cylinder is stroked all the way out.

Not sure what your method is, but there's a couple ways to do it. Obviously, there's the mid-line approach... With the cylinder at half stroke and steering centered, weld on your mounts. I've also seen people Turn the steering to full lock (or close to it) and weld mounts with the cylinder collapsed. Chances are you'll steer tighter in one direction than the other that way, though.

I think the best way (and those running hydraulic assist steering setups can correct me here, please, if I am off base and/or unclear) is to measure the travel of your tie rod from lock to lock... Turn your steering all the way one direction, make aligned marks on the axle and tie rod - one chalk mark/tape line on the axle, and another on the tie rod in line with it. Turn your steering all the way to full lock the other direction and make a tape line aligned with the mark on the axle. Measure the distance between the tape lines, and that is your tie rod travel.

Since you have an 8" ram, subtract 8" from the total tie rod travel, and that is how far the steering is capable of "over-travelling" the cylinder. Split that difference so your ram is the stop...if your knuckles hit the stops before the ram hits full travel, it will rearrange your mounts very quickly.

Example: you have 10" travel from lock to lock at the tie rod. Subtracting the 8" stroke of the cylinder, you have 2" left over of tie rod travel. You can either a) extend the cylinder 4" and weld your mounts, or b) turn your wheels in one direction so your marks are misaligned by 4", then weld with the cylinder collapsed.

If your ram travels more than your steering, I'd suggest putting a stroke limiter in the cylinder. Or...like I said, the ram will remove your mounts for you. Or reconfigure your tie rod.

EDIT: You could weld it off parallel with the tie rod if you have the axes through the eyelets horizontal with the ground/perpendicular to the tie rod travel...what I mean is that the bolts would be pointing front to back, instead of up and down. Otherwise, they will bind and bend something. But, welding it off parallel will limit it's effective travel when compared to it being perfectly parallel.
 
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As parallel as possible, but the tie rod swings fore and aft as you turn so even if you mount it parallel above the tie rod, it will swing out of perfectly parallel. Mine is about 3/4 behind and above the tie rod with steering centered.

To add to what Scooter said, you also need to make sure the ram won't oversteer your steering box. Don't just go by the steering stops on the axle, if your pitman arm length limits your steering you need to make your stops for the ram to stop when the box stops or you will rip your sector shaft off.
 
NC-V said:
To add to what Scooter said, you also need to make sure the ram won't oversteer your steering box. Don't just go by the steering stops on the axle, if your pitman arm length limits your steering you need to make your stops for the ram to stop when the box stops or you will rip your sector shaft off.
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Excellent point...I was only considering the stops at the knuckles, since I was ass-uming they stopped the steering (likely only with what they came with from the factory though)... I'll be taking notes for when I get my other 9 quadrillion projects done and get down to putting mounts for my hydraulic ram on my axle. I never even considered the steering box being the limit. Now noted to check that the stops actually do perform the stop function... Thanks for that!

NC-V said:
...or you will rip your sector shaft off.
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That sounds even more painful reading it back the second time...wow, that would hurt! :lol:
 
Scooter402 said:
Example: you have 10" travel from lock to lock at the tie rod. Subtracting the 8" stroke of the cylinder, you have 2" left over of tie rod travel. You can either a) extend the cylinder 4" and weld your mounts, or b) turn your wheels in one direction so your marks are misaligned by 4", then weld with the cylinder collapsed.
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I'm lost but need to understand this since myJeep is 7 so need to compensate 1" but I'm confused
 
Dang that sucks there's a lot more to this than I was expecting is taking forever just to figure it out
 
marty79 said:
I'm lost but need to understand this since myJeep is 7 so need to compensate 1" but I'm confused
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You're saying you have 7" of tie rod travel, lock to lock?
 
6 7/8 to be exact
 
marty79 said:
Yes
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Okay. First I would check the actual travel of the cylinder. Just because it says 8" doesn't mean it's exact. Once you know exactly how much travel it has, you'll need to pull the collar off under the rod end eyelet (a spanner wrench and a vice will do the trick) you will need to put a stroke limiter in the cylinder to account for the extra inch. If it's a hair under 8, you'll be good with a 1" stroke limiter. If it's over 8" you'll need to get one that much longer.
 
When you limit the stroke of a hydraulic cylinder, it will still collapse to the same length. It just won't extend as far. That should help you with determining where to put your mounts if you only have a limited time frame to work with.
 
Or you could get one of these. This one restricts the retract, but still extends fully. I was referring to one that goes inside the cylinder before.

blocks-w-cylinder.jpg
 
So if I did it this way the only downfall would be having to make a skid underneath it correct and ram goes out 7 and 7/8 so it's exactly 1 inch.
So to take it apart I just do the 4 bolts the really really long bolts and then one of the end will come off and then put a 1-inch blocks space or type of thing in there
IMG_20180502_180255857.jpg
 
Yes, you'll need 1" of stroke limit if it's 7-7/8" stroke. You can put a collar on the rod itself to limit it's retract by an inch, or you can put a stroke limiter inside the cylinder to limit the travel 1". We used to make them at my last job that went on the rod inside the cylinder. I've seen people stack washers on the rod, but I'm not sure I really like that option. Visual aid shown here:

540870d1281372165-hydro-assist-ram-question-stroke-stop-really-needed-img_2913.jpg


Since that one is a tie rod type cylinder, you'd have to take the tie rods off and remove the cap. I'd look up a diagram for that cylinder to make sure they're properly torqued on reassembly. The external collars like I showed before can be had for ~$20 at Tractor Supply.

And yes -- I'd definitely make a skid if you're going to mount it low like that. Bust one of those tie rods off and you'll have that cylinder blow apart if it gets under some good pressure.
 
Why couldn't you put your mount on that truss so it'll be up high?
 
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