I had no idea Fentanyl was this powerful

skyhighZJ said:
The vax has no play here and to bring it to this argument is par for a lib BS excuse. Overweight, you should have taken it upon yourself to exercise and eat better. Not one single part of anything is beyond reach for the average American citizen except to relay on being lazy and blaming someone else. Also, the biggest problem with every fucking American. “Who can I blame?” It’s what has led us to the point we are at in our society and it’s fucking disgusting. Own your choices and live (or die) by them.
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Actually one could absolutely make the same argument for the vax.
If you're so hard on personal responsibility and consequences for your actions - if somebody chooses not to get the vax - just like choosing not to exercise or do whatever to eat better - and gets Covid, should the rest of us pay for their hospital bills? I mean, they could have avoided that cost but chose not to do so and roll the dice.
Own your choices and live or die by them.

Or maybe I really believe the Rona is an overblown liberal-driven thing and isn't really a problem, and thus don't need a vax because I can take that risk, then that argument goes away right?

Now replace "Rona" with "Fentanyl OD" and "vax" with "Narcan revival".
 
skyhighZJ said:
Are you paying for the narcan to bring her back? My thought process is if I, as a tax payer, am paying for narcan to get used constantly for people who should know better or repeat offenders then why are we miking people pay outrageous amounts amid money for stuff that’s outside of their control? I.E. chemo, insulin, etc. answer that and I’ll STFU..
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I am paying for that narcan, just as you are. I'm also paying for the oxygen I gave your grandmother who was having breathing difficulty this morning. I'm paying for the jaws of life I used to cut your sister out of the car she wrecked when the deer caused her to drive off the road. I'm also paying for the desiel fuel, PPE and manpower to fight the fire that was caused when you accidentally caught your garage on fire and it's spreading to your house where your family pictures are located.
As for the chemo and insulin, i agree it sucks. I can't answer your question unfortunately. If you can guarantee that my kid won't do better the 4th time I'll STFU.
 
How about we quit wasting tax dollars on the "war on drugs" then we can have plenty for the narcan?

Duane
 
RatLabGuy said:
Actually one could absolutely make the same argument for the vax.
If you're so hard on personal responsibility and consequences for your actions - if somebody chooses not to get the vax - just like choosing not to exercise or do whatever to eat better - and gets Covid, should the rest of us pay for their hospital bills? I mean, they could have avoided that cost but chose not to do so and roll the dice.
Own your choices and live or die by them.

Or maybe I really believe the Rona is an overblown liberal-driven thing and isn't really a problem, and thus don't need a vax because I can take that risk, then that argument goes away right?

Now replace "Rona" with "Fentanyl OD" and "vax" with "Narcan revival".
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Completely false on all accounts because you can get the vax (or not) and still get (or not), carry, or be debilitated by the rona.
Don’t do drugs you don’t need narcan.
2 separate issues.
 
skyhighZJ said:
Don’t do drugs you don’t need narcan.
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I've used narcan on many elderly people who accidentally take too much medication or forgot that they had already taken it. Usually cancer patients on oxy for pain.
 
skyhighZJ said:
Completely false on all accounts because you can get the vax (or not) and still get (or not), carry, or be debilitated by the rona.
Don’t do drugs you don’t need narcan.
2 separate issues.
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So are you saying the vax dosn't decrease your chances of hospitolization and severe care?
 
GotWood said:
I am paying for that narcan, just as you are. I'm also paying for the oxygen I gave your grandmother who was having breathing difficulty this morning. I'm paying for the jaws of life I used to cut your sister out of the car she wrecked when the deer caused her to drive off the road. I'm also paying for the desiel fuel, PPE and manpower to fight the fire that was caused when you accidentally caught your garage on fire and it's spreading to your house where your family pictures are located.
As for the chemo and insulin, i agree it sucks. I can't answer your question unfortunately. If you can guarantee that my kid won't do better the 4th time I'll STFU.
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It now your talking a completely different set of issues that were never related to the OP. None of the things you brought up are relayed to people making poor life choices. My grandmother (the only grand I have left) lives on her own on a 500+ acre farm in a farm house built from logged timber in 1863. She was born in that house and will die there. She has paid her dues and insurance premiums. When (if) she needs to go to the hospital it can be justified. When (if) my sister needs a ride in a meat wagon from an ambulance it’s justified as she had paid her dues as an upstanding member of society. She has earned her way and paid her dues
If a person MAKES THE DECISION TO shoot drugs in their arm or smoke it or stuff it up their ass or XYZ, that’s different. Tell me I’m wrong and I’ll tell you your ignorant.
 
RatLabGuy said:
So are you saying the vax dosn't decrease your chances of hospitolization and severe care?
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My Battalion commander would tell you so. He “was” an ultra marathoner. Has completed numerous times. He went out and got the jab right away because he wanted to be safe. Got the rona 6 months ago and is now getting medically discharged from the army for being unable to run the required 2 miles in 18 minutes. Yep, that vax sure saved his life.
 
RatLabGuy said:
should the rest of us pay for their hospital bills? I mean, they could have avoided that cost but chose not to do so and roll the dice.
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No, we should not. There should be no government subsidized health care. It should be privatized and there should be open competition to keep the prices competitive across the board. Gov co should have nothing to do with managing civ health insurance programs.
 
skyhighZJ said:
No, we should not.
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ok great, at least you are consistent there
skyhighZJ said:
There should be no government subsidized health care. It should be privatized and there should be open competition to keep the prices competitive across the board. Gov co should have nothing to do with managing civ health insurance programs.
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Woah you totally changed topics.
I hope you realize that even in a 100% privatized system, all the members still pay the costs for those who incur expenses. It's just voluntary communism.
That's how auto insurance works now, and why your rate isn't based solely on your own past history and your incurred costs.

So when I say "we pay for it" what mean is insurance not pay, because that comes back to everyoneelse anyway. They are on their own.
 
skyhighZJ said:
Don’t do drugs you don’t need narcan.
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I'd like to point out that the whole basis of this thread is the complete opposite of what you said here.
 
RatLabGuy said:
ok great, at least you are consistent there

Woah you totally changed topics.
I hope you realize that even in a 100% privatized system, all the members still pay the costs for those who incur expenses. It's just voluntary communism.
That's how auto insurance works now, and why your rate isn't based solely on your own past history and your incurred costs.

So when I say "we pay for it" what mean is insurance not pay, because that comes back to everyoneelse anyway. They are on their own.
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No, in a 100% privatized system people “should” pay for what they need and what they use. I don’t need it I don’t pay that month or quarter or year. I need it I pay more. I don’t have the personal responsibility to save my money in case I need some medical attention well, sucks to suck. Not specific to the accident realm (insert a payment plan??) but general health insurance is the same as general auto insurance. Why do I have to pay $xxx a month for something I haven’t used in 15 yrs. where’s that money going? It should be going into MY account. Same with health care. I shouldn’t be paying health insurance premiums to give you hospital visits because you’re fat and chow a meat lovers pizza washed with a 2 ltr of coke and a pack of pallmalls. I do t know what the right answer is but what I do know is what’s happening right now is crap. My money shouldn’t be paying for other peoples shit decisions in ANY circumstance.
 
skyhighZJ said:
No, in a 100% privatized system people “should” pay for what they need and what they use. I don’t need it I don’t pay that month or quarter or year. I need it I pay more. I don’t have the personal responsibility to save my money in case I need some medical attention well, sucks to suck. Not specific to the accident realm (insert a payment plan??) but general health insurance is the same as general auto insurance. Why do I have to pay $xxx a month for something I haven’t used in 15 yrs. where’s that money going? It should be going into MY account. Same with health care. I shouldn’t be paying health insurance premiums to give you hospital visits because you’re fat and chow a meat lovers pizza washed with a 2 ltr of coke and a pack of pallmalls. I do t know what the right answer is but what I do know is what’s happening right now is crap. My money shouldn’t be paying for other peoples shit decisions in ANY circumstance.
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Wait... so you're saying no form of insurance at all.... everything cash and personal line of credit?
What happens if you are 12 and get cancer? Or born w/ a hole in your heart? Just deal with a lifetime of debt from bad luck? What if there's no chance it could ever be paid back? Have a random seizure at the age of 17 while driving, hit somebody and cause major injury or death to them - of course you're never going to be able to personally pay out that $1m lawsuit. So everybody loses.
 
RatLabGuy said:
Wait... so you're saying no form of insurance at all.... everything cash and personal line of credit?
What happens if you are 12 and get cancer? Or born w/ a hole in your heart? Just deal with a lifetime of debt from bad luck? What if there's no chance it could ever be paid back? Have a random seizure at the age of 17 while driving, hit somebody and cause major injury or death to them - of course you're never going to be able to personally pay out that $1m lawsuit. So everybody loses.
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That's where the human element of life and medical care becomes important. It doesn't actually cost $26 million dollar to take care of the 12yo cancer patient, but we have a system that has conditioned us to think that way. I'm all for optional communism in the form of charity/etc, and I guarantee you would see a lot more of it if the world was managed differently.
 
^this.
You’re living in the world we have made for ourselves. I’m proposing something totally different. Question, how did we survive before Govco stuck all their fingers in all the orifices of our lives?? Now, go back to then. Thats what I want.
And, I say all of this and my above statements (yes I had been drinking heavily) as a govco employee and I’m disgusted more and more as my time goes by. That’s part of why I’m getting out. Even the army is turning into a total shitshow ruined by civilian gooberment overreach. But I’m sure you know better than me and will educate me how I’m wrong and need to pay more taxes to give everybody something.
 
skyhighZJ said:
It’s absolutely that simple. Make stupid choices win stupid prizes. There should be a registry. You get one “get out of jail free card” after that, a ride to the morgue. Sorry not sorry but my tax dollhairs get wasted in too many other ways to be saving shit heads.

change my mind….
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I have to agree. Prior to use an addiction I can't think of one good reason that makes these drugs a medical or physical benefit. The root of use has no "vehicle" toward being a benefit to the user or society.
Choose to be useless? Well you get the end result. Unless you was held down and jabbed I see it no different then deciding not to walk into traffic.
 
GotWood said:
I have this conversation all the time. "Bring them back once, let them die the next time"

I agree 99.9% of the time. Until it's my kid though. She'll do better next time.

Everyone is someone's kid.
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Yep, and as cruel as it is my kid, your kid, and everyone else who has a kid.....it was the idividuals choices. Like I told my son: You drink and drive, it's on you. You drink and call me? I'll pull down hells gates to get to you. You drink and get full stupid and die or kill someone? Hells gates are already open.
 
On another note of parenting kids or a loved ones perspective.
A great bible story about a son who went to the world comes to mind. Worldly pursuits, living in an un godly fashion led him to absolute despair. For those of you who know the story and those who don't ask yourself one question.

What did the earthly father do? Did he go searching? Did he meddle around and manipulate the son's choices? Did he reach out, discipline, or any other parental activities? NO.

What he did was stay steadfast in his own beliefs. Never wavered from his worship, never blammed himself or his son. Stupid choice stupid results, welcome back I still love you.
End of story.

I have parented from day one. You make a bad choice you own it. Now excluding development stages and the obvious unaware self harm of course, but I was that guy who would say: "that was hot, bet you want do that shit again."
 
77GreenMachine said:
Educate me on my ignorance, but if just breathing around it is that dangerous, what are are people doing with it? Like how is it used? If a few small grains can kill I assume they’re not snorting it or anything.
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I asked my wife about this drug. She said she gives it daily for pain management during surgery. She gives it in liquid form though. She said that she doesn't know much about the illegal use of it.
 
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skyhighZJ said:
Question, how did we survive before Govco stuck all their fingers in all the orifices of our lives?? Now, go back to then.
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skyhighZJ said:
And, I say all of this and my above statements (yes I had been drinking heavily) as a govco employee
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This brings a smile to my face and heart, haha.
 
As I said, there’s not a simple fix.

I do 100% believe in personal freedom and in personal responsibility. The trouble is the responsibility part. How does a meth addicted person who already steals to support his habit “pay” society for the costs of the addiction? He can’t.

I also know a thing or 12 about the gaming of “the system” in regards to the FSA. My wife is a retired social worker supervisor and my daughter’s birth family are pros at getting that free shit. These things have really jaded me against those people who are takers offering nothing in return.

The list is infinite. We live in a socialist land whether we admit it or not. Child tax credit for folks who don’t owe taxes? Cool! SNAP assistance for the woman with 5 kids and a live in boyfriend (off the record) who has money for hair, clothes and nails? Cool! Pay farmers to not grow crops? Cool! Pay folks extra in unemployment while we have record jobs available? Cool! Eviction moratorium so the folks getting all the freebies don’t have to pay the rent? Cool!

Genie isn’t going back in the bottle unless an event knocks us back to hunter gatherers.

I do believe in societal costs and that in modern civilization taxes are required to pay for some things. It is supposed to be a give and take relationship but as was said long ago, “once they understand they can vote for free shit, the gig is up” (paraphrased).
 
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