Lots of interesting news today

Ron said:
There are 2,557 public schools in NC.
Lets say you put 4 armed guards at each.
Pay them $60k each so their loaded costs average $120k/ea/yr.
or
$480k/school per year
or
$1,227,360,000 PER YEAR.
NC has about $5.1M tax payers which would cost about $250 extra per person per year..and we havent accounted for admin costs, equipment costs etc.
Click to expand...
Why couldn’t they have a rotation of officers who are already on payroll from the state? I mean, I see local PD constantly working with construction workers all day everyday. I don’t know… I’m just thinking outloud.
 
DSM Turbos said:
So post the sign, then kids know that if they knock down a teacher they may find a gun.
Click to expand...


May being the operative word here. They might instead find that while searching said teacher for a gun that another teacher that actually has one meanwhile has snuck up behind him. It's a crap shoot for sure. One that not many people will take if they don't know what the odds are actually. Again - crazy people don't care about odds.


Think about it - you are flying down the highway well above the speed limit and you see a cop car at the side of the road. Do you hit the brakes hoping he didn't have you on radar already? Most people that are paying attention would. So as you drive by said police car on the side of the road and see that it's empty - just a decoy - you are relieved that you won't get a ticket, but you still slowed down anyway. Now, this only works once. Same spot on the same highway the next day you might fly by that cop car knowing that it was vacant yesterday. Same thing the next day and the next. Until one day that the cop is actually in the car and pulls you for speeding right by and not slowing down one bit. This is how deterrence works. You stay in line because you don't know if you are being watched, if your going to get pulled over, if the person you are picking a fight with is actually better prepared/better trained/better/stronger/faster.

Think about this on a global scale as well. Russia has always had us by the throat with the threat of nuclear war. The big bad bomb and the threat of mutually assured destruction has had both sides at bay for decades now. Now that Russia is all the sudden hungry for expansion into neighboring areas, some have folded where Ukraine stood and fought what most would consider a losing battle. Out gunned, out manned and out numbered by military vehicles, they stood their ground and fought back. The fact that it has taken this long to win so little is pretty telling. I grew up thinking that one day "Red Dawn" would come true and that Russians would paratroop in and take over the country from the inside. Now, it seems as though they can't even roll into a neighboring country and take over by force, let alone a country on the other side of the world. But yet, the nuclear threat still remains, and so the U.S. has been relatively hands-off.
 
Cherokeekid88 said:
Why couldn’t they have a rotation of officers who are already on payroll from the state? I mean, I see local PD constantly working with construction workers all day everyday. I don’t know… I’m just thinking outloud.
Click to expand...
And who pays for that?
It's still new work hours, they don't work free.
 
Cherokeekid88 said:
Why couldn’t they have a rotation of officers who are already on payroll from the state? I mean, I see local PD constantly working with construction workers all day everyday. I don’t know… I’m just thinking outloud.
Click to expand...
You do realize there is a major shortage of officers currently right?
My math above shows a need for 10,000 school leos.
There arent that many LEOs in NC total I bet.

Its an entirely inplausible idea
 
ManglerYJ said:
May being the operative word here. They might instead find that while searching said teacher for a gun that another teacher that actually has one meanwhile has snuck up behind him. It's a crap shoot for sure. One that not many people will take if they don't know what the odds are actually. Again - crazy people don't care about odds.


Think about it - you are flying down the highway well above the speed limit and you see a cop car at the side of the road. Do you hit the brakes hoping he didn't have you on radar already? Most people that are paying attention would. So as you drive by said police car on the side of the road and see that it's empty - just a decoy - you are relieved that you won't get a ticket, but you still slowed down anyway. Now, this only works once. Same spot on the same highway the next day you might fly by that cop car knowing that it was vacant yesterday. Same thing the next day and the next. Until one day that the cop is actually in the car and pulls you for speeding right by and not slowing down one bit. This is how deterrence works. You stay in line because you don't know if you are being watched, if your going to get pulled over, if the person you are picking a fight with is actually better prepared/better trained/better/stronger/faster.

Think about this on a global scale as well. Russia has always had us by the throat with the threat of nuclear war. The big bad bomb and the threat of mutually assured destruction has had both sides at bay for decades now. Now that Russia is all the sudden hungry for expansion into neighboring areas, some have folded where Ukraine stood and fought what most would consider a losing battle. Out gunned, out manned and out numbered by military vehicles, they stood their ground and fought back. The fact that it has taken this long to win so little is pretty telling. I grew up thinking that one day "Red Dawn" would come true and that Russians would paratroop in and take over the country from the inside. Now, it seems as though they can't even roll into a neighboring country and take over by force, let alone a country on the other side of the world. But yet, the nuclear threat still remains, and so the U.S. has been relatively hands-off.
Click to expand...
I'll ask the same question again.
Why are you applying rational logic to someone who is not doing something rational?
 
RatLabGuy said:
I'll ask the same question again.
Why are you applying rational logic to someone who is not doing something rational?
Click to expand...


Because not all school shooters are crazy. A gracious plenty of them are, but they aren't all crazy. If someone is bullied long enough and see that nobody is doing anything about it, sometimes people snap. They see an opportunity to level the playing field with a weapon not thinking about the results. In those situations, they look for a short term solution and people that normally wouldn't resort to violence all the sudden see this as their power move. It's not necessarily mental illness, though. It's just that they've had enough.

Typically with mass shooters, you can't get a look into their motives because their brain is now being mopped up in buckets from the police bullets shredding it. What little we learn is then from manifestos or social media posts that only make sense in retrospect. Few that survive like Dylan Roof or Frank Robert James that were motivated by racist hatred, Others, like UNC Charlotte shooter Trystan Terrell seemed to be so enthralled with the attention that other mass shootings got and wanted a piece of that - not really understanding the ramifications. Terrell apologized saying he, " made a mistake." No. A mistake is wearing black shoes and a brown belt. This was a pre-planned completely random act of pure evil. Depending on how you look at it, it's either fortunate or unfortunate that he will spend the remainder of his days locked away in prison with no chance of parole. I like to think that he will be used as a non-voluntary human sperm donor receptacle beaten within inches of death only to be kept alive for the sole purpose of him living out every last day in pain and agony, but to be honest, I'm pissed that my tax dollars will pay for his sustenance until that day. Keeping him in prison costs (on average) $30,000 a year. Stabbing him doesn't cost a damn thing.
 
ManglerYJ said:
May being the operative word here. They might instead find that while searching said teacher for a gun that another teacher that actually has one meanwhile has snuck up behind him. It's a crap shoot for sure. One that not many people will take if they don't know what the odds are actually. Again - crazy people don't care about odds.


Think about it - you are flying down the highway well above the speed limit and you see a cop car at the side of the road. Do you hit the brakes hoping he didn't have you on radar already? Most people that are paying attention would. So as you drive by said police car on the side of the road and see that it's empty - just a decoy - you are relieved that you won't get a ticket, but you still slowed down anyway. Now, this only works once. Same spot on the same highway the next day you might fly by that cop car knowing that it was vacant yesterday. Same thing the next day and the next. Until one day that the cop is actually in the car and pulls you for speeding right by and not slowing down one bit. This is how deterrence works. You stay in line because you don't know if you are being watched, if your going to get pulled over, if the person you are picking a fight with is actually better prepared/better trained/better/stronger/faster.

Think about this on a global scale as well. Russia has always had us by the throat with the threat of nuclear war. The big bad bomb and the threat of mutually assured destruction has had both sides at bay for decades now. Now that Russia is all the sudden hungry for expansion into neighboring areas, some have folded where Ukraine stood and fought what most would consider a losing battle. Out gunned, out manned and out numbered by military vehicles, they stood their ground and fought back. The fact that it has taken this long to win so little is pretty telling. I grew up thinking that one day "Red Dawn" would come true and that Russians would paratroop in and take over the country from the inside. Now, it seems as though they can't even roll into a neighboring country and take over by force, let alone a country on the other side of the world. But yet, the nuclear threat still remains, and so the U.S. has been relatively hands-off.
Click to expand...
Your speeder analogy falls apart because in your analogy the school speeder fires 3 shots at the police car as he goes by and never takes his foot off the gas.
 
So random thought. Sunday mid morning driving around I see LEO posted outside numerous churches for traffic management in their gov paid for vehicles. If we can pay for that why are those LEO not able to provide services to the schools? Separation of church and state anyone? Oh, nah. Just pay em a bit more (from an entity that doesn’t pay taxes to the system in the first place) and it’s all a wash I suppose.
 
skyhighZJ said:
So random thought. Sunday mid morning driving around I see LEO posted outside numerous churches for traffic management in their gov paid for vehicles. If we can pay for that why are those LEO not able to provide services to the schools? Separation of church and state anyone? Oh, nah. Just pay em a bit more (from an entity that doesn’t pay taxes to the system in the first place) and it’s all a wash I suppose.
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I think the churches are actually required to have them due to traffic disruptions. And they do have to cover the cost. So, it goes back to additional workload requiring additional funding. And directing miss Daisy out of the church lot for two hours on Sunday is a lot less workload than patrolling a school for 6 hours a day for about 200 days a year.

Two things I'd still step back and look at:
1. Why have schools become the major target for mass shooters? Did we put a target on them simply by making them a no gun zone?

2. We are still focusing on mass shooting events executed by deranged gunmen. Aren't these incidents still the major exception for murders with guns and other weapons? I get it that these are high profile. But why shape policy on the minority of incidents?
 
skyhighZJ said:
So random thought. Sunday mid morning driving around I see LEO posted outside numerous churches for traffic management in their gov paid for vehicles. If we can pay for that why are those LEO not able to provide services to the schools? Separation of church and state anyone? Oh, nah. Just pay em a bit more (from an entity that doesn’t pay taxes to the system in the first place) and it’s all a wash I suppose.
Click to expand...
"you" typucally are not paying for them. They are technically off duty, and are being paid by the church. It's a side job.
Or it is a contract the church has w/ the LEO service, they are paying them.
 
Southern_Transplant said:
I think the churches are actually required to have them due to traffic disruptions. And they do have to cover the cost. So, it goes back to additional workload requiring additional funding. And directing miss Daisy out of the church lot for two hours on Sunday is a lot less workload than patrolling a school for 6 hours a day for about 200 days a year.

Two things I'd still step back and look at:
1. Why have schools become the major target for mass shooters? Did we put a target on them simply by making them a no gun zone?

2. We are still focusing on mass shooting events executed by deranged gunmen. Aren't these incidents still the major exception for murders with guns and other weapons? I get it that these are high profile. But why shape policy on the minority of incidents?
Click to expand...
RatLabGuy said:
"you" typucally are not paying for them. They are technically off duty, and are being paid by the church. It's a side job.
Or it is a contract the church has w/ the LEO service, they are paying them.
Click to expand...
but as short as the country supposedly is for LEO employment they should hire privatized security/ traffic management and not be tapping the gov for resources. Sorry not sorry but the gov has no business messing with pimping themselves out for a buck to any private organization. County fair, school, sure but church, no. Not my fault you chose to put your church in a place that needs traffic management to get in or out of the parking lot. And they may pay a fee but what other tax revenue are they putting into the system to support the LEO or other gov functions? More often than not the number is zero.
 
skyhighZJ said:
but as short as the country supposedly is for LEO employment they should hire privatized security/ traffic management and not be tapping the gov for resources. Sorry not sorry but the gov has no business messing with pimping themselves out for a buck to any private organization. County fair, school, sure but church, no. Not my fault you chose to put your church in a place that needs traffic management to get in or out of the parking lot. And they may pay a fee but what other tax revenue are they putting into the system to support the LEO or other gov functions? More often than not the number is zero.
Click to expand...
I think you miss the point. The government is telling them (and other major events) they have to do it. As I recall from scheduling an event, the city of Pinehurst even MADE you use their public safety service (at the appropriate fee). It's not just churches. They are just the most visible gatherings that the cities tags for special event traffic management. Mark's graduation ceremony also had this out at Crown Coliseum.
 
83oldyoda4x4 said:
I would assume they don't want just anyone out there stopping/redirecting traffic on public roads.
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They have a police officer directing traffic at my kids school and traffic backs up ALMOST every morning. The only time it doesn't, is when there is no police officer there directing traffic and disrupting flow. 100% serious. 🤷‍♂️
 
I mean, if people actually drive their cars and get out of the parking lot when traffic allows I don’t see why I need to have my morning commute disrupted due to the choices of people who need to go to church or XYZ. Maybe it isn’t so important to be the first in line at the Golden Coral after you got your weekly Jesus fix. IJS. So therefore why a police officer?
 
Cherokeekid88 said:
Why couldn’t they have a rotation of officers who are already on payroll from the state? I mean, I see local PD constantly working with construction workers all day everyday. I don’t know… I’m just thinking outloud.
Click to expand...

skyhighZJ said:
So random thought. Sunday mid morning driving around I see LEO posted outside numerous churches for traffic management in their gov paid for vehicles. If we can pay for that why are those LEO not able to provide services to the schools? Separation of church and state anyone? Oh, nah. Just pay em a bit more (from an entity that doesn’t pay taxes to the system in the first place) and it’s all a wash I suppose.
Click to expand...

Paying for an off duty officer actually makes money for the agency and money for the officer. The rates for off duty vary for the type and risk assessment of the work. It’s not free and very expensive. Some off duty LEO make +$100/hr.

And speaking of traffic management. We are all thinking these folks are reasonable drivers as ourselves. Not the case and that’s why there has to be the traffic management.
 

Southern_Transplant said:
Two things I'd still step back and look at:
1. Why have schools become the major target for mass shooters? Did we put a target on them simply by making them a no gun zone?
Click to expand...


1) Target rich environment - lots of lives in small clusters that are usually too scared to do anything - this only makes sense for the shooter who is detached emotionally from the particular school and is only seeking to inflict maximum harm in a short burst.
2) Payback or retribution of a perceived wrong. Schools are where most of us learn to socialize with others and often times that socialization is marred by incidences of bullying, low self-esteem coupled with rejection. Since "school" is the trigger for the displaced emotion, it becomes the target. Many times, it's a particular person who is in the crosshairs, but often times it's just random selection of targets based on proximity.
3) Media attention. Killings at schools are wrought with emotion because of the loss of the unrealized potential of the victims. They are seen (as they should be) as innocent victims that had their whole lives ahead of them, so the tragedy is seemingly greater than shooting a bunch of senior citizens that have lived full lives. Therefore, greater headlines means more notoriety for the shooter.
4) Maximum effect, minimum risk. I put this as last because I feel it is least likely, but even still I do feel there is some validity to it. Shooter knows that there will be little resistance in a school where there are no guns allowed, majority of schools at BEST have two SRO officers and they are spread very thin. Tactically, they could get in, inflict their carnage and be out before any response is available. Especially if there is a chink in the armor such as in Ulvade where a door was left unlocked for him to gain access. Teachers (especially at the end of a school year) tend to get lazy and will leave doors unlocked so that they can get their classes outside and back in without having to mess with keys. Not saying that is what happened here, but teachers are human and will tend to get lulled into a false sense of security if there appears to be nothing to worry about.

I can't even imagine what the criminal profilers must deal with trying to get into the minds of these types of people. My ramblings above are just based on a basic understanding of human nature. I'm no forensic psychologist or criminalist, etc.
 
And more political bs. Just do something damnit to try.

www.newsweek.com

Chuck Schumer Blocks School Safety Bill Named After Parkland Victims

The Democratic majority leader said that the Senate is "going to vote on gun legislation" and that Americans "are tired of moments of silence."
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com


Kinda ironic also.

www.npr.org

Guns are banned during Trump's upcoming speech at the NRA conference

The Secret Service is taking control of the hall during Trump's speech in Houston on Friday and is prohibiting attendees from having firearms and other weapons, according to the gun group.
www.npr.org www.npr.org
 
kiss951.com

Watch Your Scanning: Walmart Issues Citations for Self-Checkout Mistakes

Walmart is getting smart with their scanning. If you miss some items you could be facing a citation for self check out mistakes.
kiss951.com kiss951.com
"The unidentified woman says she was given a petty theft citation at the Walmart at 7635 N. La Cholla Blvd. B in Tucson. She says she accidentally forgot to scan a few items during check out."

Yeah, mean ol Walmart!
:rolleyes:
 
jeepinmatt said:
kiss951.com

Watch Your Scanning: Walmart Issues Citations for Self-Checkout Mistakes

Walmart is getting smart with their scanning. If you miss some items you could be facing a citation for self check out mistakes.
kiss951.com kiss951.com
"The unidentified woman says she was given a petty theft citation at the Walmart at 7635 N. La Cholla Blvd. B in Tucson. She says she accidentally forgot to scan a few items during check out."

Yeah, mean ol Walmart!
:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

A item. Understandable. Two items, Eah maybe. A “few” items, sounds like playing the system and got caught.
 
DSM Turbos said:
And more political bs. Just do something damnit to try.

www.newsweek.com

Chuck Schumer Blocks School Safety Bill Named After Parkland Victims

The Democratic majority leader said that the Senate is "going to vote on gun legislation" and that Americans "are tired of moments of silence."
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com


Kinda ironic also.

www.npr.org

Guns are banned during Trump's upcoming speech at the NRA conference

The Secret Service is taking control of the hall during Trump's speech in Houston on Friday and is prohibiting attendees from having firearms and other weapons, according to the gun group.
www.npr.org www.npr.org
Click to expand...
You really are a moron aren't you? The secret service said no guns. It isn't the NRA or even Trump's call.
 
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